What's the minimum protein intake?

[Legion Kreinak2]

What would be the minimum protein intake necessary to stimulate muscle growth after newbie gains have been made? I'm guessing at least 1gP/lb? I was just curious, because even though DC recommended 2gP/lb, some days I may not hit that mark (though I plan to try) and want to make sure I'll still be making gains with a number underneath that, and not just wasting my time.

 

[Legion Kreinak2]

BuMp

 

[PolishHammer1977]

try 1.5 X bw. If that doesnt work try 2 X bw

bw = bodyweight

 

[louden_swain]

Exactly,

Legion, use trial and error to determine what works for you. . .you may need less food or more food compared to other people.

Find out how much protein and food that will spur growth.

Don't get too preoccupied with numbers.

 

[Legion Kreinak2]

I understand, thanks. I was just asking for a general figure, because if there are a good number of people who word with, let's say, .75xBW then I would know I'd still be able to make gains if I missed a couple of meals in a day.

 

[WarriorPL]

1g might be the least to take, but that might not even work. 1.5-2 is what you're shooting for.

 

[Legion Kreinak2]

Thanks guys, much appreciated. I would give karma to all, but I can't do it all at once.

 

[louden_swain]

Most people may disagree with this statement, but. . . . .

protein is over-rated!!! Yes, an adequate protein intake is sufficient for muscle growth, but a lot of trainers forget that the human body can only consume and utilize a certain percent of protein each day.

I think if a person is interested in gaining weight, then it is essential for the trainer to consume a high number of carbs and increase to a moderate fat intake.

There are way too many trainers that have an extraordinary protein intake, but they fail to consume enough carbs.

Carbs are essential for growth and developing energy stores that are essential for heavy intense training sessions.

Here is how my diet is arranged:

60 percent carbs
20 percent protein
20 percent fat

Others are probably following this type of intake:

50 percent protein
25 percent fat
25 percent carbs

I heard a trainer the other day, state: "protein is the only thing I need to worry about". I thought, what a fool. . .this was coming from a guy that weighs 185lbs and hasn't grown in months. If he was serious about his training, he would be consuming a high carb diet.

If you are wanting to gain mass eat these following foods:

- rice
- potatoes
- breads
- oatmeal
- malt o meal
- cream of wheat
- grits
- pastas
- beans
- tortillas

These foods provide high quality complex carbs, not the junk carbs found in:

- cakes
- donuts
- brownies
- candy bars
- pastries

You see my point?? Think about carbs more than protein.

 

[louden_swain]

Legion,

One other thing. . . .if you can afford it, starting eating at Chinese buffets on a regular basis. You can load up on tons of high quality nutritious foods.

 

[Legion Kreinak2]

Much appreciated Louden, seriously. So, you don't follow DC's diet plan and get 2xBW in protein?

 

[louden_swain]

Much appreciated Louden, seriously. So, you don't follow DC's diet plan and get 2xBW in protein?

Well like I said, I am not following DC training right now. However, my training is really similar (the split, exercise selection, and routines).

The DC diet is a great blueprint for people who are wanting to pack on good size.

Right now, I am eating huge as well (no less than 6 large meals a day). I am drinking about a gallon and a half of water per day.

My diet contains a wide variety of foods and I stay away from the sugary foods that are empty in calories.

I feel that I am eating big that will help facilitate the process of growth. . .I have always enjoyed designing my own diet that is suitable for my needs. . .that is crucial when establishing a training program. The man DC himself is very knowledgeable and help change my views on training, which has resulted in good gains.. . . I thank him for his ideas.

The bottom line is. . . eat big and drink tons of water!!!

 

[louden_swain]

For now, I must go. . .I am off to eat at a local Chinese buffet.

I will also be eating a turkey sandwich, 1 cup of yogurt, and a banana two hours from now.

Two hours from this, I will be stopping at Sonic Drive-In for:

1 extra long chili cheese coney
1 grilled chicken sandwich
1 order of moz. sticks

Then I will have a pre-workout meal:

2 cups of oatmeal
1 piece of fruit
1 gatorade

 

[Legion Kreinak2]

That's one crazy amount of food you're consuming. It sucks, I wish I could afford so much, let alone stomach it all. Getting a job isn't going too well right now, either, and when I do get one and start buying myself more food, I'm going to be cutting into my day's schedules, which may interfere with my diet and training anyway. Wow, this shit is more difficult than I had previously thought.

 

[bigp3]

no way you can get truly large unless you are getting close to 2 grams of protein per lb of bodyweight. Show me someone that is eating a gram or less per lb and I will show you someone that is small and not make big gains, He may be cut though. It is all in what you want size or looks?

 

[blinddeafmute]

Legion,

Honestly I have tried the 1g and 2g/bw and made much bigger gains from the 2x. But along the same lines as louden suggest. Pay very close attention to carbs. I eat lots of potatos to get my carbs because I am a hard gainer. NO matter how much protien I eat, it would be useless unless I had the energy to convert it into muscle mass.

One other thing. I do DC's suggestion of 1.5 servings of a protien shake post workout. I noticed a big difference when I did that. Before I didnt have a meal right after workout, just followed my every 2 hour schedule. I use n-large2 so it has a ton of carbs too. Some sugars, but a lot of good carbs also.

 

[louden_swain]

no way you can get truly large unless you are getting close to 2 grams of protein per lb of bodyweight. Show me someone that is eating a gram or less per lb and I will show you someone that is small and not make big gains, He may be cut though. It is all in what you want size or looks?

Sorry bro, but everything you said is absolutely false!!! I am eating about 1.25 to 1.5 grams per lb of bodyweight and I am on my way to 220lbs at 5' 9.5" (natural; not chemically enhanced weight)

You must be one of those folks who are neglecting the importance of carbs and fats.

Carbohydrates are the most out of the three by far!!

 

[molnii]

I try to have at least 1-1.5g/lbs of protein a day....

 

[louden_swain]

I try to have at least 1-1.5g/lbs of protein a day....

That is sufficient as far as I am concerned. Are you making some good progress?

 

[gmanlax7]

i have slacked off on eating tons of protein and i am still seeing gains

i have lowered the frequency of workouts so i think thats helping

 

[casualbb]

protein is over-rated!!!

You rule! 1g/lb is PLENTY! 2g/lb is EXCESS. Eating ridiculous amounts of protein is an expensive way to get lots of sugar.

-casual

 

[IronLion]

I agree that protein is overdone....but I do belive that as you get larger you aboility to process protein will increase...duh

50-30-20 is what is recommended for most athletes, I have a ffm of about 280-290 pounds so my bmr is around 4500 cals. I burn 2500 with training and activity everyday so 7000= 3500 from carbs/4 =875 grams carb, 7000*.3=2100/4 = 525 grams of protein, 7000 * .2=1400/9=156 grams fat

so on an average day (sometimes I go upwards of 9 or 10 thousand cals a day) my intake is 145-175 carbs per meal, 90-120 grams of protein per meal, and 26-40 grams of fat per meal

if everyone would do a simple analysis of what their actual needs are there would be no bickering just growing

 

[Legion Kreinak2]

This is all good stuff to hear. I definitely feel more secure knowing I don't need so much protein to make gains. I feel somewhat reborn. What a relief.

 

[gmanlax7]

YOU BETTER NOT GO SLACKING ON THE EATING

i eat a ton, but not as much as i would be eating if i was realy trying to

 

[Legion Kreinak2]

I shant, I shant. I'll force myself to down everything I can. Everything that's filled with useful calories, of course.

 

[louden_swain]

Legion my man. . . you are a smart person and it is neat to see someone really study training and how to eat properly with a strong focus.

Remember, keep everything simple. . . that it! Eat when you can and train no more than 1 hour.

In the meantime. . .keep your girl happy.

 

[Legion Kreinak2]

Yep. Hey, by the by, is it okay to maybe do some HIIT first to shed some fat off before I start bulking? I know I'll put on some minor fat when I bulk, and if I start bulking slightly learner, well - you know. I won't end up as big. Though, my girlie doesn't care because she thinks I look fine (weight wise) now, and is willing to support me whether I get thicker or whatever when I'm bulking. She's so great! It's funny, I care more than other people about my stomach. I hate being self-consious, but I know it has to be done, and I'm going to do it.

Just wondering if that would be a better idea, or should I just get the bulking underway now?

 

[Debaser]

I really want to see a study that justifies 1 g per pound of bodyweight. Until then, I'll rely on empyrical data.

I believe to maximize your gains, you should be getting 1.5-2 g per pound. DC stated he has witnessed countless trainees start gaining again because they started replacing carbs with protein grams. I follow his diet recommendations to a T because they work so well.

 

[bilat]

Most people may disagree with this statement, but. . . . .

protein is over-rated!!! Yes, an adequate protein intake is sufficient for muscle growth, but a lot of trainers forget that the human body can only consume and utilize a certain percent of protein each day.

I think if a person is interested in gaining weight, then it is essential for the trainer to consume a high number of carbs and increase to a moderate fat intake.

There are way too many trainers that have an extraordinary protein intake, but they fail to consume enough carbs.

Carbs are essential for growth and developing energy stores that are essential for heavy intense training sessions.

Here is how my diet is arranged:

60 percent carbs
20 percent protein
20 percent fat

Others are probably following this type of intake:

50 percent protein
25 percent fat
25 percent carbs

I heard a trainer the other day, state: "protein is the only thing I need to worry about". I thought, what a fool. . .this was coming from a guy that weighs 185lbs and hasn't grown in months. If he was serious about his training, he would be consuming a high carb diet.

If you are wanting to gain mass eat these following foods:

- rice
- potatoes
- breads
- oatmeal
- malt o meal
- cream of wheat
- grits
- pastas
- beans
- tortillas

These foods provide high quality complex carbs, not the junk carbs found in:

- cakes
- donuts
- brownies
- candy bars
- pastries

You see my point?? Think about carbs more than protein.

Do you stay lean while eating that many carbs? Some people's goals are different, they want to gain lean body mass..... others just want to gain as much muscle as possible without worrying too much about fat.

 

[casualbb]

High protein is pretty important, but the body DOES ADJUST to higher levels of protein. Everything's designed to promote homeostasis (keeping the body from changing.) So when you eat ungodly amounts of protein, the body comes to expect more protein and increases the protein turnover rate. This effect has been investigated, do a search for some articles on protein cycling to see that adaptation effect.

-casual

 

[Zander1983]

casual, you're looking mighty lean and ripped in your avatar. Post some full pics?

 

[IronLion]

High protein is pretty important, but the body DOES ADJUST to higher levels of protein. Everything's designed to promote homeostasis (keeping the body from changing.) So when you eat ungodly amounts of protein, the body comes to expect more protein and increases the protein turnover rate. This effect has been investigated, do a search for some articles on protein cycling to see that adaptation effect.

-casual

agreed which is why I belive in a fast day once a month and a low protein day every 10 or so days

 

[The Red Man]

I've seen 200 pound bulk monsters come out of jail and they're DEFINATELY not getting no 1.5-2 grams per lb of protein in the big house.

Bottom line you need protein but not no 2 grams per pound, tha't just so rediculous.

 

[bigp3]

that is the biggest bunch of crap i have heard that you don't need high protein to get big. Maybe if you are natty you cannot process 2 grams per lb but I guarantee if you are loaded to the hilt and get 2 grams you will notice the difference. Another thing,,, you noticed that all these guys that are saying high protein is not needed are not all that big.... Hmmm wonder what the connection is???

Any guys out there pushing 3 bills that get only 1 gram per lb year round? I would love to meet them

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

bigp3::Any guys out there pushing 3 bills that get only 1 gram per lb year round? I would love to meet them

Doggcrapp:: in 14 years of lifting and interviewing too many over 260lb bodybuilders to count--ive seen 2. Thats it.
Paul Dillett and Nassir El Sombaty (in the last couple years)--Nassir hasnt gained muscle since about 97, and Paul is a genetic freakazoid---so if people reading this believe they have Sombaty and Dillett genetics please be my guest and eat 1 gram per lb of bodyweight. Whats amazing is 90% of the very large bodybuilders ive talked to or interviewed over the years said a big mistake they made was not getting in enough protein and when they did they finally took off---yet I see so many guys weighing a buck 80 saying its not neccessary. If "juiced to the hilt" guys have some trouble gaining huge amounts of mass with low protein intake what the hell do you think is going on if your clean?

 

[casualbb]

casual, you're looking mighty lean and ripped in your avatar. Post some full pics?

Maybe after I diet a little more ... lol, I'm really not big at all, I just have good genetics for muscle shape and a fast metabolism.

in 14 years of lifting and interviewing too many over 260lb bodybuilders to count--ive seen 2. Thats it.
Paul Dillett and Nassir El Sombaty (in the last couple years)--Nassir hasnt gained muscle since about 97, and Paul is a genetic freakazoid

Well that I agree with. When somebody's juicing they obviously need more protein because protein synthesis across the entire body is jacked up. I think for your average Joe Blow 1g/pound is fine. That's already like 2-3 times the recommended daily allowance. I guess what it boils down to is that "All the big guys do it" isn't enough justification for me. I'd rather just get 1g/pound of protein and eat a big calorie surplus in carbs and fats, and it's definitely worked in the past.

-casual

 

[Debaser]

Casual you look great, to be honest. But DC has always suggested when you think you've hit your plateau in size, try bumping up your protein to 2x your bw and often you will continue gaining. He has witnessed this with a lot of people.

If I were you, I'd try just doing it for a month (following DC's diet recommendations) just to see what happens. Hell a month is nothing in the big scheme of your training career Let me know if you want assistance, I know the diet inside and out.

 

[casualbb]

Ya know what? Hell, why not. I'll do it. I'm gonna start bulking again probably around mid-july. That should give me exatly a month before I have to head off for school again and eating will be tougher.

-casual