what is your aromatase inhibitor of choice?

[mm107]

It doesn't really sell here any longer. It only sells where they control the sites. If it were good and it worked, it would sell everywhere, regardless of whether they advertise on those sites or not.

MyoGenX is used by people on virtually every site on the 'net, and has gotten positive results everywhere.

AIFM is used where AnaFit controls the site.

Don't you think that's odd?

any they are no longer here, yes, but in thier absence you and nelson are here....now i have no problem with ANYONE, im just making an observation, i think those guys are no longer here because of a confict of interest, and buisiness is buisiness.....

I also think you have made more of a name for yourself, rather then the A/F guys.....People either hate you or like you, and when u have people hating you it seems to fire up popularity even more then people liking you....

I personally like you and Nelson, and the A/F guys as well....

Yes alot of people were raving about the AF products, when they were here, and there are still some of us with the balls to still rave about them now....

Your products work well (as i have read), and also have read reviews where people hate them......but in the threads where people love them and hated them, there was no other competitors/manufactorers bashing other products.....

this thread was simply asking which aromitize inhibitor people use, but once again another thread was turned into an "AF who? AIFM What?" type of thread....And the funny thing is, i dont think you or nelson sell a product like AIFM, so why not let the consumers read unbiased opinions?

Totally just making an observation, as i think you all have good products that work, and some that dont.... But the ones that dont, shouldnt be bashed by other companies, just by us buyers.


and Triceptor, aweseome reply....

 

[mm107]

However, you get a certain amount of credibility for coming up with it first. That's what's at stake...credibility. I don't care about the money, personally.

Anafit, imho, tried to pass themselves off as some kind of supplement and steroid genius-types, when really, they just stole formulas and information that were/are/was already on the market. It's not the copy-cat thing that irks me, it's the claim that the copy-cats are anything special.

Those guys convinced everyone here that they were something special, for years...some kind of scientists or gurus, by simply releasing products that had been on the market already, to what we call an "inflexible" market, where they control the flow of information.

Then they used that leverage and ability to control the flow of information to bully other sponsors off the site, and attack every product and person who they perceived as a threat.

That's the issue I have with them...they deceived some people, and when they couldn't, they bullied others. Others (Caleb/Par) they banned when they couldn't handle them (which they did to me as well, after editing my posts).

That's just my observation and opinion.

They tried to attack Primordial Performance, Myself, Nelson, Omega, Ag-guys, A.L. Rea, etc, etc...every sponsor/author I've seen here has basically been attacked by them, and they used their undeserved reputation and power to (re)enforce their bullying and increase their sales.

see i go and type a long ass reply, and you swing a better answer....i hate you


jk


i see what your beef is with the AF guys now, before i always thought it was about sales, i did see them bullying primordial performance.....you could be onto something

 

[Anthony Roberts]

Bill Roberts: Mag 10
John Berardi, PhD: Surge
Pat Arnold: Prohormones
Me: Fadogia Aggrestis/ MyoGenX
Dan Duchaine: Topical Yohimbe
Bruce Kneller: Halodrol50

The above is a list of steroid/nutritional authors who also came out with a totally unique nutritional product. I know that off the top of my head, because in this industry, being first means you have added credibility and you have a lot of bargaining power to design supps from then on.

Now...lets look at AnaFit:

No uniqe products, never had the first anything, always were second to come out with anything.


Being first means credibility in this industry, and I can literally name every "first" product and the person who came out with it. AnaFit doesn't deserve that level of credibility, though they mislead people here into thinking they do. Their names don't belong on that list above, until they actually do something more than play follow the leader.

 

[Anthony Roberts]

see i go and type a long ass reply, and you swing a better answer....i hate you


jk


i see what your beef is with the AF guys now, before i always thought it was about sales, i did see them bullying primordial performance.....you could be onto something

It was NEVER about sales. It was about bullying people and trying to hurt other sponsors. I wasn't even in the nutritional industry, and didn't have any similar products at all. But they realized that if I was seen as an expert here (like Nelson is/was), and I didn't think their products were anything special...etc...

So they attacked me constantly. Bullied me, when I first got here...I can post what they said if you want, and even link you to the thread where they attacked me for pages, and I never flamed them back.

Read their interactions with Eric (Primordial Performance) when he first showed up. Check their interactions with me when I first showed up.

When Eric/Primordial first showed up, Ulter sent me several messages trying to have me attack Primordial, and wanting to forge some kind of alliance to gang up on him. I don't have any PMs saved, but here's the opening K-message Ulter sent me, where he tried to get me to attack Primordial:

Dermacrine Info thread 14-Feb-2007 07:39 AM Ulter

Just a note: They are promoting their product against Myogenex as superior.

Also, after my e-book came out and my nutritional product, they offered me a "truce" and said that we should work together. I told them to fuck off, because I don't like bullies, even when they can't bully me.

That's the truth about AnaFit, if anyone wants to hear it.

 

[triceptor]

However, you get a certain amount of credibility for coming up with it first. That's what's at stake...credibility. I don't care about the money, personally.

And this is my point. Take yourself for instance. You stepped out and put your reputation on the line to introduce a Fadogia product. In the beginning most were bashing you for one reason or another. Blood work started being posted and the result were favorable. The tone changed a little but no one gave you your props yet. The product continued to be successful and now there are products coming out with similar ingredients. Still no props.

Since there's no way for you to get licensing money, your detractors, especially the ones jumping on the band wagon owe you at least some civility and respect.

It would frustrate anyone after being bashed not to be vindicated in the same public forum. And it adds insult to injury when they then start to benefit from that same thing that they used to bludgeon you with.

Now change the scenario slightly. Lets say that those detractors were a bit more business-like. They could have voiced their concerns with the science ONCE and gone on record. Waited for the product to launch and watch quietly. Then if it is a success they could come out openly and support and introduce their own versions - wihotu feeling like douchebags. This would produce a much better industry landscape. One that breeds individual risk and thinking. This is the way it is in other industries. And you would have been given the accolades you deserved and they wouldn't have had a problem giving them since it wouldn't have been in such contrast to their original actions.

 

[Nelson Montana]

This is getting heated, so I'll make some quick points.

It doesn't matter who came up with something first in terms of a products effectiveness, but it does say something about the knowledge and commitment of the people marketing it. In this field that means a lot.

There are plenty of products that people buy because they THINK they work. Look at MuscleTech. Remember Hot Stuff? HMB?

Anthony, you're absolutely right about the AF products, but you know, if they worked and sold them cheaper, that'd be fine. It's when people mistake the salesman to be authorities on bodybuilding that it becomes an issue.

The one area where I might take disagreewith you is your list of originators.

Dan, no doubt. he was also the first to do whey protein and ephedra!

Pat may have had the pharacological knowledge to make prohormones but they were a lousy product.

Roberts knew enough chemistry to make a transdermal version but again, it was of a lousy product.

I don't see Surge as a great innovation. Sorry. I like John but a protein drink with extra BCAA's isn't brilliant.

Now this is pretty important...

When I came out with UNLEASHED there were companies whose reaction was; "What the fuck is THIS? Sex Hormone Binging Globulin? Get the fuck out of here, nobody knows what that is and nobody's going to buy it.

When I came out with "POST-CYCLE" I insisted on a picture of a syringe on the label to make sure customers knew who it was for. They thought I was out of my mind. It'd scare too many people. It's on there anyway.

When I came out with ZIP, they were like; "A fat burner with no stimulents? A slow acting thyroid supplement? It'll never fly."

Protein Factory was the only company that saw the potential for a bodybuilding audience.

And one more thing. MyogenX is the ONLY...I repeat, the ONLY natural product shown to increase LH.

I'd say MyogenX and UNLEASHED are the most effective hormone manipulating products on the market and they're 100% side effect free. THAT IS HUGE! So forgive Anthony and me if we get a little miffed when being accused of being rip-off artists or less knowledgable than some copycat salesmen.

 

[Anthony Roberts]

This is getting heated, so I'll make some quick points.

It doesn't matter who came up with something first in terms of a products effectiveness, but it does say something about the knowledge and commitment of the people marketing it. In this field that means a lot.

There are plenty of products that people buy because they THINK they work. Look at MuscleTech. Remember Hot Stuff? HMB?

Anthony, you're absolutely right about the AF products, but you know, if they worked and sold them cheaper, that'd be fine. It's when people mistake the salesman to be authorities on bodybuilding that it becomes an issue.

The one area where I might take disagreewith you is your list of originators.

Dan, no doubt. he was also the first to do whey protein and ephedra!

Pat may have had the pharacological knowledge to make prohormones but they were a lousy product.

Roberts knew enough chemistry to make a transdermal version but again, it was of a lousy product.

I don't see Surge as a great innovation. Sorry. I like John but a protein drink with extra BCAA's isn't brilliant.

Now this is pretty important...

When I came out with UNLEASHED there were companies whose reaction was; "What the fuck is THIS? Sex Hormone Binging Globulin? Get the fuck out of here, nobody knows what that is and nobody's going to buy it.

When I came out with "POST-CYCLE" I insisted on a picture of a syringe on the label to make sure customers knew who it was for. They thought I was out of my mind. It'd scare too many people. It's on there anyway.

When I came out with ZIP, they were like; "A fat burner with no stimulents? A slow acting thyroid supplement? It'll never fly."

Protein Factory was the only company that saw the potential for a bodybuilding audience.

And one more thing. MyogenX is the ONLY...I repeat, the ONLY natural product shown to increase lh - leutenizing hormone - .

I'd say MyogenX and UNLEASHED are the most effective hormone manipulating products on the market and they're 100% side effect free. THAT IS HUGE! So forgive Anthony and me if we get a little miffed when being accused of being rip-off artists or less knowledgable than some copycat salesmen.

Meanwhile, topical ATD (AIFM) will NOT reduce SHBG to any noticable degree...and that was all AnaFit used to talk about.

I posted, blowing up that claim, and they deleted it.

Also...as for Unleashed...it's actually (I think) the basis for products like "ActivaTe" and the new Halodrol 50 (though not the old one, which was just steroid metabolites). Noteworthy, though, is that I have reasons to think that they are not superior to Unleashed, and are in fact inferior.

Microphallus has (allegedly) 3 PhDs, and never came up with a single original supplement. Why the hell would he brag about 3 PhD's, if he never did the very thing you and I achieved on our first supplements?

3 PhD's, 0 creativity

 

[Nelson Montana]

I dated a girl with 2 PHD's. Dumbest ass I ever met in my life.

 

[Parm]

Out of curiosity, was it AR that started Tweak Labs?

 

[Anthony Roberts]

Out of curiosity, was it AR that started Tweak Labs?

No. I never started a lab...I helped the kid (Tweak) when he started out, because he was (initially) producing good products.

I know who he got his powder from, which was h****k***, who was backed by M***a. Therefore, I knew he would be alright at first (which he was).

I knew the kid's powder source was good, and vouched for him, though I never "told" anyone to use him, I just said he was good when asked. When he switched powder sources, and started messing up, I no longer vouched for him, although I offered to pay everyone who had felt ripped off by the kid, up until the point (over a year ago?) that I no longer backed him.

By "back" I mean...I vouched for the quality of his goods and service, to the best of my knowledge. Eventually, he went scammer, well after I no longer backed him. You can never predict stuff like that. Remember Satch? Why don't you name all the mods here who backed him, including the beloved AnaFools?

If you know enough to know who Tweak is, then you know that story too, or at least you should.

Honestly, I should have known better...when the kid started out, he was a 19 year old kid who blew a semester's tuition on starting a UG, and was in the hole...I helped him because I felt sorry for him, and knew he was legit with good intentions at the time.

Unfortunately, people can start good, and go bad. I backed him when he was good...anything he did after I stopped backing him isn't really my concern.