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Westside style using Lockouts?????

C

Cubanito17

New member
Hey guys I was wondering for my next 2 weeks of ME bench I wanted to throw in Rack Lockouts for my ME lift...The thing is I know I would do this by singles until I fail... But I have a meet Feb 13 now would this be a good idea to do rack lockouts next week and the one after for my ME lift or is there another ME lift I should perform to bring up my Pause.. I've done floor presses, and today finished close-grip incline.

One more thing for Dynamic bench day what excercise can I change for DB Elbow Out Ext.????? I've done them for a straight 4 weeks although a good thing is I went from my last set of 8 with 40lb DB's to this monday I did them with 55lb DB's. I think that's an awesome increase in just 4 weeks for a tri workout. Should I just stick with them and keep going up or change the excercise up. Thanx
 
on your speed day do some type of extension after the speed sets,like jm presses,ez curl skull crushers,etc.do your tate presses,d/b rolls etc on ME day...........

as for the lockouts.....i do them here and there,but i like a 4 board press better for lockout ,throw them in if you like though.i would also finish with a board press for my last ME before the meet.
 
Skull crushers!DBandBB. Hey cubanito , Bob is holding a bench press meet in March/April sometime, You should check it out ; its at Santa luca High school in Lantana i think.
 
Screwball. DB Rolls are where you lay on a bench with two db's one in each hand and you have them straight out then you bring them down to your sides roll them up to your traps then roll back to sides and press up.
Adam dude I got 245 4 weeks ago, but I did a blind spot bench and my coach didn't want me to go up anymore than 245 b/c he said my form sucked I swore I could've hit 260. Not sure what I can do right now, but when I max in two weeks I wanna go for 300. I feel i can get it my tri's have gotten alot stronger.
GRIMM I know of this he spoke to me about it. It's just that that same week in april I have a PL meet for my school so I don't think i'll do too well in that meet but I might just do it for the feel of it, you know. I gotta really see if I want too do it that week. I'll look into the info Bob sent me and it is down in Santelucious in Lantana.
 
Hey before you guys think I'm lying I'm dead serious I do 55lb db's for 8. I love doing them they feel good on my tri's. hey does this have alot to do with bench. Do you think I should be benchin 600+ if i can do these with 55's. :D . If this helps any my lil brother(14) does them with 40lb DB's.
 
My form..

I saw the excercise on elitefts.com under the excercise index and I'm going by that. I have a bench in the incline position bring the DB's to my chest with elbows sticking straight to the sides, then I extend my arms upward keeping the bottom of the DB's touching at all times up and down. Isn't this the right way.
 
Ahhh, the elbows out extensions. That is still crazy!


We thought you were referring to the lying extensions with little rest(12-17 secs).


I would think your bench would be quite high, at least mid-400's if you could honestly do the 55's with good form. I dunno.
 
Well I did them again today upset I tried 60's and couldn't do them I only got them 3 times so I did 2 sets of 8 with the 55's. Here's what I don't understand do any of you know what a california press is It's like a skull crush with a curl bar,but when you bring it down like a skull crusher you roll forward to your chin and press straight up well I can do this with 95lbs for a set of 10 with a bit of a struggle and a kid I know that lifts with me had trouble to get this for 3 and he benches 275 from last time he maxed the same day as me and I only maxed at 245. So what's up with this. WHY AM I NOT BENCHIN 400+. Oh well I'll get there soon I just gotta think big weight in my head I guess.
 
Hey guys one thing if this helps any of you I tend to have to wear an ace wrist band on both wrists b/c I messed them up a while ago and today I tried doing 50's for my first set and couldn't get it without the wrist bands so I put them on and it made it easier for me some of you might wanna try it I dunno.
 
If you're using 55's for that exercise then either you're doing them wrong, or you've got at least another 200lbs on your bench that you don't now about.
 
try pulling the bar apart when you bench. If your tries are that strong you will utilise them more (your triceps that is) and bump up your bench.
 
1-dawg I'm gonna start preparing myself mentally that I can do more weight b/c unless there is a video somewhere of that excercise then I know i'm doing them right. Whoa 200 more lbs that's fuckin sweet I was thinkin maybe 315 but I'll bump up to about 405 for my next max :D
Endpoint I'm gonna try that too if it used tri's I know that's a strong point on me of course it can always be stronger:D
 
OK guys I've got a problem I did lockouts today but I messed up i think by doing cardio in the morning anyway I couldn't even lockout 275lbs, What's wrong with this picture???? I thought i had pretty strong tri's
 
could have been a bad day ,how far off your chest did you have the bar set?......how close was you grip on the bar?..........
 
How much of the press are you pressing. I personally only lock out the last 4 inches or so. Lockouts are something I had to work up to. When I first started doing them I could hardly lock out more than I could flat bench, but now I am locking out almost 600 lbs.

Keep working on it, don't lock out more than 4 to 6 inches, grip close till you miss, then move hands out to the rings and keep going till you miss again, and quit doing cardio. Cardio turns testosterone into estrogen.

B
 
Cubanito,

I just read some of the earlier posts about how much you are doing elbows out triceps extensions with. I myself used 55's for my last time doing elbows out tricep extensions, and I did 6 sets of 10 with 15 seconds rest between sets. I am currently in the neighborhood of a 500 lb bench. I can use 65's for tricep extensions where the dumbell comes down to the delt while lying on a flat bench for 6 sets of 10. I am 5'7" 230 lbs, 18 inch arms, 48 inch chest. And these sets and reps I described were absolutely all I had in me.

I have very serious doubts that you are doing these exercises with the same form that I am using, or is demonstrated in the bench video. When Louie was using 65's he was benching something like 500 to 530.

Cubanito go talk to flapwrlifter, aka Bob Youngs if you get the chance, let him take a look at your form on these exercises. I know he has offered to help, and beleive me, if I got the chance to take him up on that offer, I would.

Good luck and hope this helps.
 
Mann I was doing it in the neighborhood of 4-6 inches from lockout I'm aiming more towards 6 and i'm guessing the cardio in the morning did it for me.
Brian I didn't know about the cardio turns test into estrogen are you serious bro damn i quit cardio for life. And I have gone down to lift with bob in fact tomm i'm going to west palm so i might wanna see if i can stop by so I can do my form and see if it's correct then ask him about some other forms that i'm confused with. Thanx
 
Hey guys for those of you wondering about my doing 55's for elbow out ext I was looking over elitefts.com and I am doing it right according to form now here's my theory before I started westside training my lower part of my tricep was always stronger b/c I did weighted dips with 200lbs on my lap for a set of 12 or sometimes to failure and when i would go past about 15 reps I would add weight I did my dips bench to bench that's how I put weight on my lap. Dips work the lower part of your tricep so I'm guessing the reason i'm not benching 500lbs is b/c upper and middle tri's are weak. I know you guys don't believe in one part of the body just working that, BUT does anyone know what type of press or ext works the middle and upper tri maybe this would really bring up my bench instead of keep strengthening up my lower tri which is stronger than upper and middle. Once again i know you don't believe in isolation moves, But this can probably help me ALOT in bench. Thanx.
 
Here is how I do my tricep work. On Sundays after I am finished with speed bench, I do some sort of barbell tricep exercise going as heavy as I possibly can. For example, I will do JM presses for something like this: 185 x 5, 225 x 5, 275 x 5, 315 x 5, 365 x 3, for two weeks only on speed days, then switch to 5 board press, olympic bar skullcrushers, then back to JM presses. On Max effort day, after max effort exercise, I will either do Tate presses (elbows out tricep extensions) or I will do regular dumbell tricep extensions for up to 6 sets of 10 with 15 seconds rest between sets. I will also switch these exercises every two weeks, but with dumbells, I just switch back and forth between the two.

On dynamic day, do maximal weight barbell tricep movements, on max effort day do lactic acidosis, or reps till you puke movements with a dumbell.

At least that is how I do it. When taking free advice bear in mind that you generally get what you pay for.

Hope this helps,

B.
 
Thanks. I was writing this from memory, but I beleive it to be accurate, I just don't have my training log in front of me at the moment.

JM presses are one of my favorite triceps movements. I can do more with a JM press than I can a floor press. Go figure.
 
brian,that's very similar to my workout.i always do jm's,french presses with chains,5 board,..then on ME day i have been doing either d/b rolls on the floor,tate presses,etc........
 
Well today I didn't do my DB elbow outs instead I did skull crushers with the bar, but was I right about the lower tri part being stronger than upper or this doesn't matter. Anyone know???

Damn brian that's a shitload of weight I'm stil not sure how to do JM press I think I have an idea though.
 
Just found my training log

Sorry guys,

Made an honest mistake on a previous post about how much I was doing the JM press with. Everything is accurate through 315, but the 365 did not happen. That was a different exercise that I was remembering. That has bugged me ever since I posted that. Of course it has been a month since I last did JM Presses, as I have been doing a couple of other moves, now I guess I am going to have to attempt the numbers I posted above to see if my ass can cash the check that my mouth wrote. I seriously doubt it will happen as the 315 was a PR.

I also hadn't done floor presses in a while, and I had forgotten that I can not JM press more than my floor press.

Thanks for letting me get that off my chest. Sorry about the wrong #'s.

B
 
I am in a similar situation as Cubanito17 - strong triceps, 'comparatively' weak bench.

I had a distal clavicle excision (the underside at the end of my clavicle was removed, similar to an acromioplasty. I pitched for several years and that probably helped develop the bone spur so the doctor says). They opened up my front delt 3.5 in" and performed 'full on' surgery! I had the surgery 8 months ago and my bench has never recovered (used to be 315 lbs.). I can now bench, w/strict form 240 X 8 at 167lbs. That is the same reps I did pre-surgery, but with 10 lbs less. I cannot even bench 280lbs anymore (275 lbs. max)! The pain in my right shoulder is incredible. It also feels as if it is going to fully dislocate.

On the other hand my triceps are very, very strong. After doing four to five sets of chest, I can do 9 - 10 dips on the parallel bars w/a 110 lb dumbbell hanging from the chain belt. I go waaay deep (my shoulder I believe is holding me back from doing a 120 - 125lb dumbbell because it is very shaky). I can also do the seated french press very well. I sit reverse on the preacher curl bench and my spotter hands me a preacher curl bar laoded with 120 lbs total. I then lower 120 lbs down behind my neck and then press it up overhead using only my tris (no shoulder rotation at all).

If you look at it, I can dip 270 lbs for 10 reps, but can barely bench it for a single. I wonder if I need to see another Orthopedist or see a 'real' trainer? I am at a loss as to how to get my bench back to my pre-shoulder surgery 315 lbs. My upper back is also very strong; it is as strong comparatively as my triceps. I think I am slowly resigning myself that my bench will never be the same again. Maybe I am further damaging the AC joint too. Maybe I just anatomically have bad shoulder joints. Who knows?

Any suggestions?
 
That's cool everyone makes mistakes.
Flex if I get any suggestions thrown my way besides the one's on my other posts then I'll help ya out until then I'm stuck with relatively strong tri's just no back side to back it up.
 
Hey there Flex,

I have a suggestion for you. Get a good tight bench shirt. I have a pretty screwed up shoulder too, a combination of playing outfield, and some accumulated martial arts injuries. My raw bench sucks because my shoulder won't hold up, but by benching with a shirt when I go heavy, and by keeping my elbows tucked into my lats, I have managed to put up some decent numbers even with the bum wing.

Note, however, my shoulder injury was/is not as severe as yours, but a change in form and the addition of a shirt could make a world of difference, it has for me.

Good luck,

B
 
I wish in my HS meets I'd be able to use a shirt it seems like my tri's are strong enough to handle ALOT more weight than I'm putting up right now.
 
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH ME. Ok guys today I did lockouts for my ME movement and I couldn't lockout 235 from 4 inches that is pathetic b/c 5 weeks ago my max bench was 245. My tris are suppose to be strong enough to bench mid 400's right well what can I do to bring up my lockouts, like what tri movement as an extra workout b/c I will be doing it 2 weeks on 2 weeks off to bring up my straight lockout.

By the way I'm maxing out again Feb 8th so wish me luck in the 300's.
 
if you are talking 3 inches of your chest that's your shoulders....pushing from a dead stop from only 3 inches off yor chest will involve your shoulders first.....
 
Lockouts

When you perform lockouts the goal is to work the last 6" or so of the press. Lockouts involve a little shoulders(front delt) and the triceps. I think 5"-7" (dependant on bench stroke length) is the most you should shoot for if you want to isolate the triceps. If you started the lockouts 4" off your chest then you were still involving a little upper back/lats and quite a bit of your chest and shoulders. YOU NEED TO DETERMINE WHAT YOUR WEAKNESSES ARE AND TRAIN THEM. From the descriptions in previous posts your triceps are not your weakness. WORK YOUR WEAKNESSES.

It's great to be positive about training and pushing your PR's up but your expectations also need to be realistic. I'm not saying you can't take your bench max from 245lbs. to over 300 lbs. in 6-8 weeks but I think a more realistic goal would be a 10 lb.-25 lb. gain. THIS WOULD BE A TREMENDOUS GAIN FOR ANYONE IN A 6-8 WEEK PERIOD. Gaining strength takes intelligent, consistant, patient training. Until you take an honest look at yourself and where your strengths and weaknesses fall; you will never maximize your training results. I don't mean to be negative. I just wanted to offer some constructive criticism. Good luck on Feb. 8th and if you do hit 300+ lbs. no one will be cheering louder than me. I want you to be the best that you can be.

-Screwball
 
Hey thanx alot man I love how people on this board are so helpful especially to me that I'm only 17, but the difference is that I'm actually serious about all of this and am trying to get a head start.

So do any of you think I should do on SP days my dynamic bench then work my tri's last and do shoulders/lats/delts/tris in that order and on ME day do my ME movement maybe even make a shoulder ME movement like a military press for my ME movement that week or 2 weeks and then go lats/delts/tri's again. And for leg days after legs jump on back for movement that is in the same distance as my bench????????
 
Cubanito,

You have me confused. You and I are both using the same dumbells for elbows out tricep extensions, but you are locking out over 300 lbs less than I am. I don't know what to tell you brother, but something is not adding up.

How much are you able to do for bar movements? For example, how much on close grip bench, JM Press, skull/chin crushers, 5 board press, that sort of thing?

One thing about the lockouts, that I noticed was that I could not do very much with them when I first started using them, but I quickly got to where I could lock out some pretty good numbers. Just keep banging away at it, 2 or 3 weeks at a time, and throw in some heavy olympic bar tricep movements and you will have that 300 before you know it. But I agree with Screwball, think about realistic gains. A 55 lb gain would be a heck of a gain for a year. If you gain 10 lbs on your bench in 6 weeks, I would consider that a success. That would be like a 90 lbs increase in a year if you could gain 10 lbs every 6 weeks. Now how would you like to be Cubanito18 with a mid-300's bench, and then Cubanito19 with a mid 400's bench. Get what I am saying?

If it makes you feel any better, I am 27 years old, and I can bench more than twice what I did 10 years ago. Be patient and work smart, not just hard.

Good Luck,

B
 
OK here's one thing that I don't understand about westside training now with my old workout that was "overtraining" I got 20lb increase on my bench in 4 weeks and you guys are saying be happy if I get a 10lb increase in 6-8 weeks. I perfer to overtrain and get more lbs on my bench then do barely anything and get 10lbs or 15lbs. And a 55lb gain for a year damn that's pretty shitty before when I lifted straight a year ago I'd get 55lbs in 3 months.

Back to my lockouts I'm locking out from the rack 4" to press in other words the weight is 4" away from what I have to finish my lockout therefore I'm only throwing up the weight 4". Not on my chest to begin with at all just on the power rack.
 
When you are new gains come quick and fast.

with other training programs you will gain shit loads and then all of a sudden not gain anything for a whole year.

westside is a constantly developing program (i think i recal screwball calling it a monster) that evolves to cater to your weakness at them time. you will break that weakness and you will find another one......you keep on evolving and gain more and more......until you have surpased you friends who have been stuck for months.

also as i have found......if you have a major weakness you can nail it and add shitloads to your total in a short amount of time.
as louie said...theres an exercise out there that is going to put 50lbs on your bench straight away.you just have to find it.

as a side note i was watching benchpress workout #2 with george halbert (first exercise declines) louie said within 1 year December to december george went from a 475 to a 620 bench (i dont knowif he was still a full powerlifter...or just becoming a bench presser at the time)
pryor to that he was stuck at 475........for 2 YEARS!
 
Endpoint,

I also have that video, and I believe that George was a 3 lift lifter at that time, but later on decided to go bench only.

Cubanito, I am starting to think that your biggest problem is not that you have weak shoulders, or pecs or back or whatever, your problem is that you are 17 years old, and just at the very beginning of a powerlifting career and you are already smarter than guys who have been doing this for years and are doubling and tripling your max.

When I was 17 I was the toughest smartest guy in the world, but the older and dumber I get, the smarter decisions I make, because I now have the good sense to learn from people who know more than me. If you want to go back to your old style of lifting, go ahead. If it will consistantly put 55 lbs on your bench in 3 months, that is great, do it.

And if you think 55 lbs of gains on your max is shitty for a year, you have a rude awakening ahead of you. How much do you think Ed Coam or Powerlifterjay would give to put 55 lbs on thier max in a year. If you have never picked up a barbell, sure 55 lbs in 3 months is do-able. Try that after 10 years of hitting it week in and week out and then tell me that you wouldn't be happy with a 55 lb gain in a year. Hell if I gained that for the next 4 years, I would be right up there with George Halbert.

B.
 
Cubanito...

Listen to what Endpoint and Brian Mincher are saying to you. Both posts are giving you the straight shit. These guys are telling you from experience. Don't let it go in one ear and out the other.

I know your "gung-ho" about powerlifting and gaining strength... Hell we all are. But, you need be honest with yourself and the goals you are trying to attain. You can't jump from one training program to another and switch things up weekly. You have to make a plan, stick to the plan and evaluate the plan after a relevant time. Only through intelligent, consistant training will you be able to reach your goals.

Do yourself a favor and listen to the guys who post on this board. They are the best source of knowledge you will probably ever have. You can benefit from all of the ridiculous mistakes we've made throughout our training careers.

- Screwball
 
Hey sorry for the posting yesterday I was just really pissed b/c my boss at work was up my ass for the whole 6 hours i was there then tried to tell me that I was parked in customer parking not employee parking when i didn't even drive to work yesterday my parents dropped of my truck b/c i was getting my system fixed, i work at Publix(grocery store).
Endpoint I see where your coming from that and either way i was gonna stick with westside b/c i like the short workouts and hitting PR's in lifts.
Brian Hey uuummmm thanx for the whole 55lb shitty awakening bro. And I've been told that for 17 I have too much knowledge in all this but again it's not a bad thing and the fact that I'm getting an early start is even better. In fact my lil bro that is 14 has way more knowledge than me or at least than I did when I was 14 so his gains are gonna come ALOT faster.
Screwball Ye I guess I am, but at least I have a goal set for myself and it is to gain strength. I've changed my new Goal for bench this friday I'm hoping for at least 275. If I can get more than by all means man this is awesome.
 
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