Well This rant has been brewing for some fucking time....

[Quadsweep]

Okay, I have been noticing a trend. When I started in the steroid game "we" were a small select group that had for the most part payed our dues with many years of natural training under our belts before we went to the dark side. These days it seems every Tom Dick and Harry are on it and to be honest and I do not want to offend anyone but...fuck it. A lot of people on here are to young or to new to training to even be fucking with this stuff. I see all these exotic high dose cycles and the fucker has 2 years training total. It seems not many pay for it in sweat anymore. I am not saying I am the steroid God that dictates who uses and who does not but its almost a Joke to me when I go to shows like the Arnold and see all these tards with ILS walking around broke out with 15 inch arms and a swole face. No one has the patience. Instant gratification is the name of the game. I know this will fall on deaf ears for those who it applies to..."who me?" yes you and you know who you are. So many of these people go on get a little bigger, go off quit training, shrink and the cycle repeats. This is the result of our Gov't in their esteemed wisdom banning AAS prescription by docs...at the same time the internet exploded. Hmmmm, Ray Charles could have seen it coming. Take away the supply and not the demand and this is the result. another underground drug. Now every kid that can search on Google can get a hook up. Some things should be limited and difficult to do IMHO and this is one of those. Well cats out of the bag now. Be safe and try to be smart about this...its not a game. I am finished.

Quadsweep

 

[Quadsweep]

clif notes please

To long huh...sorry.

Quad

 

[solidspine]

Let me guess, you are taking a lot of Fina and test?

 

[OMEGA]

At least you don't have people in your gym ( like mine)
with Imaginary Lat syndrome, thats the worse...........

 

[Quadsweep]

Let me guess, you are taking a lot of Fina and test?

No fina...test YEP! Na its just .....Things are just going a wrong way I feel anymore. To many sources to much open talk too much, too much, too much!

Q.

 

[Quadsweep]

At least you don't have people in your gym ( like mine)
with Imaginary Lat syndrome, thats the worse...........

oh I know...Good part of being in a private PT gym. When I was at Gold's ILS All over the place.

Q.

 

[Ulter]

This is not the same board Bro. When your only goal is to bring traffic and you label yourself at the steroid megasite this is what you get. The body builders left this board a long time ago. So we educate the newbies and hope for the best. It's us or "a guy at the gym told me to...".

 

[Quadsweep]

ps if I ruined your thread with my jokes I will delete them

jus let me know bro

Na man we are good!

 

[Quadsweep]

This is not the same board Bro. When your only goal is to bring traffic and you label yourself at the steroid megasite this is what you get. The body builders left this board a long time ago. So we educate the newbies and hope for the best. It's us or "a guy at the gym told me to...".

I was actually going to write its like the Audio Slave song "all my Heros have now become Ghosts. Not just here but in BB in general.

Quad

 

[nab12]

Quad...I dont have a problem with you feeling like you do. You have every right to feel that way. However, Im not sure why it really bothers you that much. Thats todays society...instant gratifcation. Not only in "the game" but in anything from poker to football. You say that you paid your dues...but at what point is your debt paid to where you can start playing "the game"?
Look at football...Antonio Gates never played high school or college football but now plays in the NFL...dont you think some NFL tight ends feel like you do? But just because he hadnt played for 15 yrs does that mean he hasnt paid his dues? Or Chris Moneymaker in professional poker...the guy wins an online poker tourny and ends up in the World Series of Poker and ends up winning it...how do you think some of the old professionals felt? Probably like he didnt belong. But since he hadnt been playing for years should he not been allowed?

I guess my point is, just because you "paid your dues" why should other folks? Its not the point that its steriods that you are talking about, but anything in life. If Americans were only allowed to take part in things that they had earned, we wouldnt be able to do anything! After all has any of us actually "earned" our basic rights? Thats what makes this country so great...we can do anything we want.
Also, they arent actually doing anything to hurt you...let them do whatever they want to their body.

Not any kind of attack on your quad...just my opinion...and i'll prob. be in the minority here.

 

[rfowler]

Okay, I have been noticing a trend. When I started in the steroid game "we" were a small select group that had for the most part payed our dues with many years of natural training under our belts before we went to the dark side. These days it seems every Tom Dick and Harry are on it and to be honest and I do not want to offend anyone but...fuck it. A lot of people on here are to young or to new to training to even be fucking with this stuff. I see all these exotic high dose cycles and the fucker has 2 years training total. It seems not many pay for it in sweat anymore. I am not saying I am the steroid God that dictates who uses and who does not but its almost a Joke to me when I go to shows like the Arnold and see all these tards with ILS walking around broke out with 15 inch arms and a swole face. No one has the patience. Instant gratification is the name of the game. I know this will fall on deaf ears for those who it applies to..."who me?" yes you and you know who you are. So many of these people go on get a little bigger, go off quit training, shrink and the cycle repeats. This is the result of our Gov't in their esteemed wisdom banning AAS prescription by docs...at the same time the internet exploded. Hmmmm, Ray Charles could have seen it coming. Take away the supply and not the demand and this is the result. another underground drug. Now every kid that can search on Google can get a hook up. Some things should be limited and difficult to do IMHO and this is one of those. Well cats out of the bag now. Be safe and try to be smart about this...its not a game. I am finished.

Quadsweep

I agree with yah man almost 100%. I think the internet in some ways has made steroid use safer because of the education about it all. If you think about it on this site alone theres wealth of information at your fingertips. I think one of the main differences between steroid users now vs when you guys were much more underground and a much more exclusive fraternity is the intent of use and expectations of the results. Take me for example im an athlete, I do jiu jitsu, MMA and I workout. Have a pretty professional job and a loving wife and an awesome 2yr old boy(not sure why I added that it just sounded good I guess). I am in realy good shape cardio wise, but my strength with weights really hit the shit can when I started grappling so much. I came here as a new guy of course Im sure I asked some asslick questions but I got more knowledge from this place than I ever expected, and yah know what ?alot of you guys probably saved me from fucking myself up with wrong drugs, wrong dosages etc. Im not a bodybuilder, sure I wouldnt mind looking like alot of you guys but for me the intent for my cycle is one for health, my natural test levels are shit and im only 28, I do want to look a little more muscular, drop some body fat, and also improve my skills on the mat. Steroids are no longer being used to be huge, they are being used to create athletes of all different kinds, for all different reasons. With that being said I agree with you on everything else. I totally respect you guys that push the limit with your builds because it truely is amazing. Im on here everyday now and I would guess to say that you vets save some young inpatient kid from starting steroids atelast once or twice a day, and that in itself is commendable. Keep up the good work man, the open source discussion and stuff has to go though your so right about that. what a rant huh?

 

[newbiebynature]

im not gonna lie im one of those people quad, but ulter is right, i am glad to have had this site when i began rather than just listening to the guy at the gym saying winny is the best steroid ever.

 

[erix23]

Agree! w/Newbie.

 

[BigBlu]

I feel that people should have the free will to decide what they choose to do in their lives and with their bodies. This includes the use of recreational drugs and many other contentious issues. I feel it is important to EXPRESS FREE WILL. Where are not here to listen to other people's version of life, one that they've most likely heard from nearest insecure scaremonger requiring some attention. My favourite proverb is one by Buddha "Doubt everything. Seek your own light." I feel that it will have some relevance to what I'm about to write.

Governments make decisions for the masses based on how much they will profit from it. They NEVER put YOU first. A fine example is the demonization of GHB. During the 90's and early 2000 GHB was getting a very bad rap, moreso that it's chemical counterpart, Flunitrazepam (Rohypnol). GHB is a natural carbohydrate and is now banned for OTC use in the US. I write this with some naivety as I'm not an American citizen, but the view is pretty clear from the outside of 'Profit Prison'. GHB was then rescheduled and is now available on prescription as the 'pharmaceutical' called Xyrem, at an astonishing price. A months supply as of today will cost you in the region of $250. GHB used to cost about $40 for the same amount in a health food store.

Back to my point. I am now a 32 year old male, 6'2", 240 lbs, 14% BF. I have using anabolic steroids since I was 16 years old. Funnily enough I was inspired by Ben Johnson, the infamous Canadian sprinter. Trust me, if you have a competitive personality you will do anything to WIN or create the illusion that you have won. It is no longer about being true to any principles because there aren't any. It is thus a follow on from free will. It is just the degree that upsets some people. Ben Johnson just didn't have the best doctor and biochemist on his team. In excess of 80% of Olympic althletes use some performance enhancing drug or drugs. The same applies to professional bodybuilding. Just to add.....I do 2 cycles a year and have done so for the past 16 years. I have regular blood work and I'm good health.

We all KNOW that Olympians and Pro Bodybuilders use these drugs. It is just the media and athletic organisations that lead us to believe that drug use is minimal, unnecessary and immoral. Why is it so wrong then to emulate our heros? Humans in this state of being require EXPERIENCE to evolve. We cannot go around preaching who may do WHAT and WHEN they may do it. BULLSHIT. It is just another step into Fascism.

Anyway, my prediction is that many of the AAS, whether old or new, will relabeled, patented and then used in medicine to a very high degree within the next 5 to 10 years. The pharmaceutical industry has known this for a long time. Their money is made on patentable products. Anything nearing patent expiry is merely reformulated and sold back to you at an even more exhorbitant fee. Steroids are now being shown to have a vast array of positive effects on humans, especially in times of dis-ease. Keep your eye on Big Pharma and AAS. They see $$$$.....

So, it is not a question of excess or misconduct. It is a question of money. So, the clamping down on AAS that we observe the US government doing is NOT for your health, it is for profit. Big business runs America via the puppets they call politicians. Kermit the frog has more brains than George Bush. EVERYONE IS IN IT FOR THE MONEY.

Don't blame anyone for all the UG lab busts etc, take a look at your government. A real hard look. We are responsible for our own fate, whether you agree with another or not. Quit moralising, start questioning. Free yourself and the world is free.

 

[Quadsweep]

I agree with yah man almost 100%. I think the internet in some ways has made steroid use safer because of the education about it all. If you think about it on this site alone theres wealth of information at your fingertips. I think one of the main differences between steroid users now vs when you guys were much more underground and a much more exclusive fraternity is the intent of use and expectations of the results. Take me for example im an athlete, I do jiu jitsu, MMA and I workout. Have a pretty professional job and a loving wife and an awesome 2yr old boy(not sure why I added that it just sounded good I guess). I am in realy good shape cardio wise, but my strength with weights really hit the shit can when I started grappling so much. I came here as a new guy of course Im sure I asked some asslick questions but I got more knowledge from this place than I ever expected, and yah know what ?alot of you guys probably saved me from fucking myself up with wrong drugs, wrong dosages etc. Im not a bodybuilder, sure I wouldnt mind looking like alot of you guys but for me the intent for my cycle is one for health, my natural test levels are shit and im only 28, I do want to look a little more muscular, drop some body fat, and also improve my skills on the mat. Steroids are no longer being used to be huge, they are being used to create athletes of all different kinds, for all different reasons. With that being said I agree with you on everything else. I totally respect you guys that push the limit with your builds because it truely is amazing. Im on here everyday now and I would guess to say that you vets save some young inpatient kid from starting steroids atelast once or twice a day, and that in itself is commendable. Keep up the good work man, the open source discussion and stuff has to go though your so right about that. what a rant huh?

I understand all this but many do not listen even when they ask the questions....There are so many variables in all this and I am not singleing anyone out...I meant you know who you are and that is what I meant to say. Given what you are trying to accomplish I understand your goals and your use. You have balance in your life and thats good many do not and that can be a problem with AAS use. Everything should balance somewhat in life.

Quad

 

[Quadsweep]

Good post really. This is not a matter of me imposing my morals...it is really about everyone taking all this too lightly. This is illeagle and can be a health risk. With all the baby boomers aging you can bet your ass AAS will be on the upswing. It already is. It will be common place in 10 years as you said. I am exhaussted tonight though or i would have put more into this relply. I apologize.

Quad

I feel that people should have the free will to decide what they choose to do in their lives and with their bodies. This includes the use of recreational drugs and many other contentious issues. I feel it is important to EXPRESS FREE WILL. Where are not here to listen to other people's version of life, one that they've most likely heard from nearest insecure scaremonger requiring some attention. My favourite proverb is one by Buddha "Doubt everything. Seek your own light." I feel that it will have some relevance to what I'm about to write.

Governments make decisions for the masses based on how much they will profit from it. They NEVER put YOU first. A fine example is the demonization of GHB. During the 90's and early 2000 GHB was getting a very bad rap, moreso that it's chemical counterpart, Flunitrazepam (Rohypnol). GHB is a natural carbohydrate and is now banned for OTC use in the US. I write this with some naivety as I'm not an American citizen, but the view is pretty clear from the outside of 'Profit Prison'. GHB was then rescheduled and is now available on prescription as the 'pharmaceutical' called Xyrem, at an astonishing price. A months supply as of today will cost you in the region of $250. GHB used to cost about $40 for the same amount in a health food store.

Back to my point. I am now a 32 year old male, 6'2", 240 lbs, 14% BF. I have using anabolic steroids since I was 16 years old. Funnily enough I was inspired by Ben Johnson, the infamous Canadian sprinter. Trust me, if you have a competitive personality you will do anything to WIN or create the illusion that you have won. It is no longer about being true to any principles because there aren't any. It is thus a follow on from free will. It is just the degree that upsets some people. Ben Johnson just didn't have the best doctor and biochemist on his team. In excess of 80% of Olympic althletes use some performance enhancing drug or drugs. The same applies to professional bodybuilding. Just to add.....I do 2 cycles a year and have done so for the past 16 years. I have regular blood work and I'm good health.

We all KNOW that Olympians and Pro Bodybuilders use these drugs. It is just the media and athletic organisations that lead us to believe that drug use is minimal, unnecessary and immoral. Why is it so wrong then to emulate our heros? Humans in this state of being require EXPERIENCE to evolve. We cannot go around preaching who may do WHAT and WHEN they may do it. BULLSHIT. It is just another step into Fascism.

Anyway, my prediction is that many of the AAS, whether old or new, will relabeled, patented and then used in medicine to a very high degree within the next 5 to 10 years. The pharmaceutical industry has known this for a long time. Their money is made on patentable products. Anything nearing patent expiry is merely reformulated and sold back to you at an even more exhorbitant fee. Steroids are now being shown to have a vast array of positive effects on humans, especially in times of dis-ease. Keep your eye on Big Pharma and AAS. They see $$$$.....

So, it is not a question of excess or misconduct. It is a question of money. So, the clamping down on AAS that we observe the US government doing is NOT for your health, it is for profit. Big business runs America via the puppets they call politicians. Kermit the frog has more brains than George Bush. EVERYONE IS IN IT FOR THE MONEY.

Don't blame anyone for all the UG lab busts etc, take a look at your government. A real hard look. We are responsible for our own fate, whether you agree with another or not. Quit moralising, start questioning. Free yourself and the world is free.

 

[iHulk]

this is good, we haven't had a good philosophical discussion about gear in a while.
Quad, I hear ya argument and to an agree I understand where you are coming from with regards to educating yourselves and gaining your natty full potential before dipping in AAS.

But, I gotta agree with nab12. USA is great and I miss home. People have the freedom to choose. if you choose to be an ILS toting idiot, then go about being a tool bag, thats your right.

Truth is, we are all not pro BB'ers, nor strive to be, and paying 'your dies' in the older days often meant making huge errors in judgment and then had to deal with the nasty side effects of those bad judgments. Isn't it much more preferred to have open discussion on proper usage and hear people's feedback?

And on a political note, it shouldn't be hush hush anymore. Those ILS toting bloated guys should be clearly labeled, "juice head with no understanding of what he's/she's doing." Wouldn't it be cool if someone who never used AAS, saw one of those guys and was like, "dude, relax your lats and get some AIs!" We need more education on Steroids if not for us, but for the general liberal media lovin public. The media makes it sound like were takin heroin for something.

 

[starskulker]

At least you don't have people in your gym ( like mine)
with Imaginary Lat syndrome, thats the worse...........

I call that syndrome "Cement Deodorent Syndrome"

 

[mikey007]

Ulter is right! This site and others used to be the place to go to hear about the lastest drug or cycle and now its just turned into the same old post time after time.

Damn money hungry pricks!

 

[OMEGA]

I call that syndrome "Cement Deodorent Syndrome"

I feel like I am in the country side where its mating time for wild Roosters

and they kinda do the same thing to ward of other males

 

[JumpBallWinner]

It has gotten quite amazing the amount of people who have used AAS as compared to a few years ago when they were almost a taboo subject amongst "common" folks. I mean, seriously, I see so many guys who hardly work out and have no noticable physique what so ever who will openly mention that they have taken AAS before. It's almost to the point where it's like weed or estasy where as damn near everyone has tried it at least once if for no other reason than "just because". Guys hear these stories about what winstrol or d-bol did to so and so's friend and they suddenly get this dream image in their head of taking their shirts off that summer and the pool and looking like something off the cover of Men's Health and having all of the girls running up to them and spreading their legs. So they buy a bottle, start doing crunches, lat pull downs, and running a half mile on the treadmill two times a week, eating a can of tuna fish once a day, and sit back waiting for the miracle to happen. None of it bothers me though. To each his own. I'm not going to compromise my personal safety/security to approach every idiot I hear talking about AAS in the gym/ public ( I actually hear more AAS talk in bars and clubs on the weekends when I'm out than I do in the gym!) and try to give them advice on the subject that then puts it out into the streets that I'm a guy who is in the know on the subject. Just let em go on doing whatever they are going to do. Some will get it, some never will. There are people like that in all areas of life concerning all types of things, not just AAS and training. It just makes me feel that much better about my own knowledge and habits when I'm in the gym working harder and making better gains while off cycle than the idiots next to me bragging about how much "sus and dbols" they are taking, and how these sets of 20 reps are really going to make them "cut" by the time summer gets here.

 

[thezan]

At least you don't have people in your gym ( like mine)
with Imaginary Lat syndrome, thats the worse...........

Hahahahahah, man do i ever know what you mean!

 

[GymIntensity]

Quad...I dont have a problem with you feeling like you do. You have every right to feel that way. However, Im not sure why it really bothers you that much. Thats todays society...instant gratifcation. Not only in "the game" but in anything from poker to football. You say that you paid your dues...but at what point is your debt paid to where you can start playing "the game"?
Look at football...Antonio Gates never played high school or college football but now plays in the NFL...dont you think some NFL tight ends feel like you do? But just because he hadnt played for 15 yrs does that mean he hasnt paid his dues? Or Chris Moneymaker in professional poker...the guy wins an online poker tourny and ends up in the World Series of Poker and ends up winning it...how do you think some of the old professionals felt? Probably like he didnt belong. But since he hadnt been playing for years should he not been allowed?

I guess my point is, just because you "paid your dues" why should other folks? Its not the point that its steriods that you are talking about, but anything in life. If Americans were only allowed to take part in things that they had earned, we wouldnt be able to do anything! After all has any of us actually "earned" our basic rights? Thats what makes this country so great...we can do anything we want.
Also, they arent actually doing anything to hurt you...let them do whatever they want to their body.

Not any kind of attack on your quad...just my opinion...and i'll prob. be in the minority here.

K bro. I also agree with I hulk. K to both of you bros.

 

[youngguns]

Quadsweep, where is the threshhold of permittance?

 

[MR. BMJ]

Heck....2 years???? That is rare today.

We might have to drop that to at least 1 year because all I see around here lately is "i've been training for 6 months and I want to get big but stay lean....."...blah, blah, blah.

I think for older aged people who qualify for HRT, the time requirement will vary, and if needed, I do not really see a problem in lessening the time until AAS are used.

I am proud that I was a part of the AF "Age of Initiation" thread that was created a few years ago. I had a very small part, but am proud that it has been a guideline that has been followed by those who created it. I think that EF should put it up as a sticky here as well. That would help this board out a lot too.

On the other hand, like Ulter mentioned, I am glad to be here to answer questions on the matter instead of the inexperienced jumping into something harmful. If somebody is gonna jump into the mix, they are gonna have "deaf ears" just like you mentioned. I guess I would rather them still do it correctly as to prevent worse damage to this lifestyle by making stupid mistakes that make the next headline of the newspaper.

I was one of those who started at 18 years old. I at least worked out from 13/14 to 18 consistently, but wish I would have started my use at like 21 years old instead. Peer pressure was a bitch though, and I can see how some of these newbies want to jump into things. I'm glad nothing bad ever happened to me though. I was on pretty much non-stop from 18 to 22 years old. I learned a lot about AAS during that time, but since I was not in any kind of competitive sport, it probably would have been better just to wait until I was at least 21 years old. Man, them early-late nineties were a blast....and in a way, a time where i'll cherish forever. I learned a lot on my own not only from use, but also the whole Mexico and International scene. Also, that is when I also had a lot of good bro's here at the early-EF days who gave me some help to make sure I didn't f-up.

Any newbies to the game, please understand that I agree with my good buddy Quad. I can attest through my own trials and errors (and from numerous of my friends) that waiting until you are at least 21 years old is probably gonna be beneficial in the long run. Please understand that unless you have money in athletics riding on the line, that you are not gonna miss anything by waiting a few extra years. Besides, if you have no game with the ladies, then most of the time your body will not be enough to get ya in her pants (although it will help to some degree I guess). I see a bunch of retards all the time that think they are hot shit because they have a good build.....yeah...so F-in what....the bitches are over there making fun of how stupid you are when you have your back turned to them because you have no game. Shit, it's happened to me plenty of times in the past. You are not missing anything trust me.

For those 18+ years old users, do yourself a favor......CONCENTRATE ON YOUR COLLEGE EDUCATION! That is the most important thing you can do for yourself and for your future. AAS and bodybuilding isn't gonna make ya rich, in fact, it will probably make ya broke if anything because this lifestyle isn't cheap. Successful BB's are a very, very, very small breed....do yourself a favor and do not get caught up in the game thinking you are gonna be the next Arnold or Yates or Jay/ronnie.

Bust your ass in the gym and also on your eating.....get your education and have some fun while you are young. Fuck lots of women and then settle down. Sometime after your education and after you have put in your dues busting your ass in the gym, etc.....then jump into AAS use.

I do not see any problem being young and learning about AAS use though...do not get me wrong on that. Learn all you can, even if you are young, but just pay your dues and everything will work out a lot better in the end.....again....concentrate on education first. After all them years of learning and paying your dues, then you can jump right in the AAS game, and be able to enjoy it.

That was just addressing the younger guys. Those of you just jumping back in the mix who are above 21 and just too young for HRT.....put some time in and do not be one of those "I've been training for 4-6 months and I...." stats here at EF. Shit, at least a year would be good.

....F*ck man....i'm writing too much on this. hopefully I made some sense though, and hopefully people do not take it the wrong way.

Peace my friends!

BMJ

 

[youngguns]

Heck....2 years???? That is rare today.

That was just addressing the younger guys. Those of you just jumping back in the mix who are above 21 and just too young for HRT.....put some time in and do not be one of those "I've been training for 4-6 months and I...." stats here at EF. Shit, at least a year would be good.

....F*ck man....i'm writing too much on this. hopefully I made some sense though, and hopefully people do not take it the wrong way.

Peace my friends!

BMJ

shit man well said, it's too true. I am sure I will do them before 21 though, When I turn 20....
I will be 200lbs at 5'8'', I think I have earned it.

 

[iHulk]

shit man well said, it's too true. I am sure I will do them before 21 though, When I turn 20....
I will be 200lbs at 5'8'', I think I have earned it.

nobody under 5'9" should be doin AAS. It may stunt your growth. LOL! j/k bro.
Nice build in your avi.

 

[X Man]

i had a source and knowledge before i came to this board..... since coming to this board.. i have knwoledge of AAS use beyond my college education and have/could make a could deal of juice connections....


is it too easy yes....

is it leading to arrest of juice dealers at a high rate yes....

do things being this easy make our government toughter on juice yes....


but fuck it all without this board i wouldnt be where i am today, thanx to all you bros! the cream will rise to the top

 

[plex1500]

Hey Quad good post!
One thing I see alot running gyms as I do is that thank god most of these young guys use once or twice and then turn there attention someplace else. You never see them back in the gym and there Roid days are over. They find out it takes work and like most younger people today are not willing to put in the time so they stop everything. So I guess they spare their health some by just dropping out. Fools are born everyday!

Plex1500

 

[ProtienFiend]

For us americans: you gotta love it when we broke away from england due to being oppressed, and now we are more oppressive than them (in the sense that they are fairly tolerable of steroids, specifically).

EDIT: I (we) totally hijacked quads thread. I do like your point quad, its a well needed reminder we all need.

 

[gettnlarge01]

Someone should spend years living the bb lifestyle[training,diet,dedication] before ever trying gear.Most people don't know what they want to start with and if the gains don't come quick enough they will just quit anyway.Why take a chance messing up your body on something you are not 100% commited too?

 

[silver_shadow]

good point Q - but just something i'd like to point out. it takes a guy like quad no less (all 210 moderator pounds of him) to say something like this here nowadays. i made a similar comment here some time ago in someone's thread and got flamed no end for it. that is just sad. it's good to know that some of the old bros are still here though and will keep things somewhat orderly

 

[cranny]

I know exactly what you mean Quad. I hate the instant gratification everyone now thinks they are intitled to. But at the same time I'm not sure what the answer is. I do think as bad as this board can be filled w/ asinine newb. questions, it's far better than your local gym rat spewing diahrea of the mouth about what to take. I couldn't count the guys at my gym that will come up and ask me do I know where they can get some winny and they're 30% or more BF. I waited til' I was 34 before doing my first cycle and had 7+ yrs. training prior. I will also admit alot of my reasoning for taking gear is for vanity. But I feel as if I've paid my dues and use responsibly through education on here as well as other places. I can't say the same for alot of people here. I say this b/c everyday you see a thread about some newb. wanting advice on his 1st or 2nd cycle and he'll have 4 or more compounds listed . And here's the kicker. If he gets sound advice from a vet, he'll all too often ignore it until he get's the aswer he's looking for. I guess it's our job somewhat to keep trying to educate these guys and keep reminding them of the potential health risks when going into this haphazardly.

 

[Megalomaniac]

Thread of the week? Give the man something more than K George.

 

[Quadsweep]

Great post!

Q.

Heck....2 years???? That is rare today.

We might have to drop that to at least 1 year because all I see around here lately is "i've been training for 6 months and I want to get big but stay lean....."...blah, blah, blah.

I think for older aged people who qualify for HRT, the time requirement will vary, and if needed, I do not really see a problem in lessening the time until AAS are used.

I am proud that I was a part of the AF "Age of Initiation" thread that was created a few years ago. I had a very small part, but am proud that it has been a guideline that has been followed by those who created it. I think that EF should put it up as a sticky here as well. That would help this board out a lot too.

On the other hand, like Ulter mentioned, I am glad to be here to answer questions on the matter instead of the inexperienced jumping into something harmful. If somebody is gonna jump into the mix, they are gonna have "deaf ears" just like you mentioned. I guess I would rather them still do it correctly as to prevent worse damage to this lifestyle by making stupid mistakes that make the next headline of the newspaper.

I was one of those who started at 18 years old. I at least worked out from 13/14 to 18 consistently, but wish I would have started my use at like 21 years old instead. Peer pressure was a bitch though, and I can see how some of these newbies want to jump into things. I'm glad nothing bad ever happened to me though. I was on pretty much non-stop from 18 to 22 years old. I learned a lot about AAS during that time, but since I was not in any kind of competitive sport, it probably would have been better just to wait until I was at least 21 years old. Man, them early-late nineties were a blast....and in a way, a time where i'll cherish forever. I learned a lot on my own not only from use, but also the whole Mexico and International scene. Also, that is when I also had a lot of good bro's here at the early-EF days who gave me some help to make sure I didn't f-up.

Any newbies to the game, please understand that I agree with my good buddy Quad. I can attest through my own trials and errors (and from numerous of my friends) that waiting until you are at least 21 years old is probably gonna be beneficial in the long run. Please understand that unless you have money in athletics riding on the line, that you are not gonna miss anything by waiting a few extra years. Besides, if you have no game with the ladies, then most of the time your body will not be enough to get ya in her pants (although it will help to some degree I guess). I see a bunch of retards all the time that think they are hot shit because they have a good build.....yeah...so F-in what....the bitches are over there making fun of how stupid you are when you have your back turned to them because you have no game. Shit, it's happened to me plenty of times in the past. You are not missing anything trust me.

For those 18+ years old users, do yourself a favor......CONCENTRATE ON YOUR COLLEGE EDUCATION! That is the most important thing you can do for yourself and for your future. AAS and bodybuilding isn't gonna make ya rich, in fact, it will probably make ya broke if anything because this lifestyle isn't cheap. Successful BB's are a very, very, very small breed....do yourself a favor and do not get caught up in the game thinking you are gonna be the next Arnold or Yates or Jay/ronnie.

Bust your ass in the gym and also on your eating.....get your education and have some fun while you are young. Fuck lots of women and then settle down. Sometime after your education and after you have put in your dues busting your ass in the gym, etc.....then jump into AAS use.

I do not see any problem being young and learning about AAS use though...do not get me wrong on that. Learn all you can, even if you are young, but just pay your dues and everything will work out a lot better in the end.....again....concentrate on education first. After all them years of learning and paying your dues, then you can jump right in the AAS game, and be able to enjoy it.

That was just addressing the younger guys. Those of you just jumping back in the mix who are above 21 and just too young for HRT.....put some time in and do not be one of those "I've been training for 4-6 months and I...." stats here at EF. Shit, at least a year would be good.

....F*ck man....i'm writing too much on this. hopefully I made some sense though, and hopefully people do not take it the wrong way.

Peace my friends!

BMJ

 

[Quadsweep]

good point Q - but just something i'd like to point out. it takes a guy like quad no less (all 210 moderator pounds of him) to say something like this here nowadays. i made a similar comment here some time ago in someone's thread and got flamed no end for it. that is just sad. it's good to know that some of the old bros are still here though and will keep things somewhat orderly

228#! That is sad also BTW!

Quad

 

[get456]

shit man well said, it's too true. I am sure I will do them before 21 though, When I turn 20....
I will be 200lbs at 5'8'', I think I have earned it.

is it just me... or do ur pics look at fuck of a lot like beautiful bisex?

was he an alter of yours????????

 

[Tweakle]

If I were 18 again and had the options the kids do nowadays I don't know if I'd be any smarter than them. Back then the only way to get the stuff was from the guy selling in the gym, and it was at his discretion if you were getting it.

That said, I wonder how many people were anywhere near the old 'Hardgainer' strength standards for an average guy with a few years lifting under his belt, or are even close to them after running several cycles. The beachbody wannabes (who I dislike intensely both online and in the gym) ridicule the suggestion they should have any kind of base before using AAS, as they have no strength base and are happy having to use steroids to be 180lbs. When I see some posts here I wonder if the people making them were always picked last for playground games...

 

[mlong23]

At least you don't have people in your gym ( like mine)
with Imaginary Lat syndrome, thats the worse...........

Thanks for clearing up with ILS meant. You mean you guys don't walk around with your arms flared out like an airplane. You guys must not be working out correctly.

Agree with 95% of the original post. Mainly because somethings can be adjusted and who's to say how long something is in terms of paying dues.

For the guy who brough up Gates and Moneymaker, good try, but that is in no way relevant to this topic. You don't pay dues in those sports. If your good your good and thats it.

I started training at about 16-18, mostly on and not knowing as much as I did until I was 18. Didn't start steroids until 20, almost 21. Even at 20, I was learning a lot more about nutrition and my body in terms of working out. I'm 25 now, and I'm still learning a lot now.

 

[c3bodybuilding]

I agree with many posts in this thread. There are actually too many to highlight. I am glad this was brought to light. I was introduced to all of this when I was 21 by a 32 year old mentor. I was working out seriously and into the lifestyle since 16. I had went from 144.5lbs exactly on the day I started to 217-220 natural, depending on the day. It took a lot of kitchen and gym time to get that way and still remain lean with small waist, but it was worth the effort.

After a year of research, a lot of thought and exhausting every natural means possible to add more size, I then looked at the risk/reward benefit to it all. Was this something I wanted badly? If it were just to get a beach body or the male model look, then no. I found out with hard work in the gym, bedroom and kitchen, you could attain that look naturally and never need more than protein powders, vitamins and creatine (if that). I wanted to go beyond. Not for a trophy, fear, respect, power or girls. I wanted it for me. It's a look I love. I just love the feeling of being in the gym, lifting that iron. I love seeing new mass when I look into the mirror or try on an old shirt.

I love the superhuman strength it gives me for every day life too. I couldn't imagine having trouble picking up a 2lb water jug or running out of breath after walking from my car to the store. It's just amazing to me and the good feeling I get within from being this way. It is not to be superior to others, to be a bully or a hero. To be honest, it's just something I found that makes me feel good in life.

Would I feel this way if I had never worked for it? No. I would be one of those guys that thinks with one or two cycles he could become bigger than Ronnie Coleman. I would sit there and wonder if you had to take steroids to get that Brad Pitt in Fight Club look. I might even be as pathetic as to think the bench was some holy grail and symbol of strength and maybe actually like it when people ask "How much can ya' bench?!". I actually think if I were to have gotten involved without working hard and bulding a base first, I would be far worse off in many aspects. I might even be one of those 'wife beater tough guys'. I don't even think I need to explain that type, we all know one of them.

I see Ulter points out all the bodybuilders from Elite are gone. I respect Ulter and I understand what he means. I remember in 99 and 2000 when I first would lurk on here. You should have seen the hardcore crowd that was here. The cycles would seem insane even by todays standards. And I loved it. I loved it so much that I finally stepped out into the light and signed up. I made it my home. But make no mistake, bodybuilding and bodybuilders are not dead on this board. I see the fire still burning deep within many members here and I see it in the dedication of the veterans that still remain, answering even the most mundane and silly questions, even if it is "Can I drink winny?"..... Fantastic post Quadsweep, it's great to still have a fantastic bro like you on the board.

 

[nisser512]

is it just me... or do ur pics look at fuck of a lot like beautiful bisex?

was he an alter of yours????????

lol....he had to start over and remake his image.

 

[cityhick]

What a great thread.

You cant just bash newbies for asking basic questions. We were all newbies at one time. It doesnt matter if your a vet or have been lifting for 5 years, everyone was new to the game at some point. And for the vets that didnt have the internet you would have been proboly a lot better off if you did. Im sure not everyone was comfortable with little information and trial and error. But what seems like simple questions are only simple to the ones that have already done thier research.

At the same time I understand the vets that have to listen to young men that are so ignorant that wont listen because the awnsear is WORK. And its almost sad to hear these guys messing up there bodys with such powerful drugs just simply because they are lazy. And its a JOKE as far as the everyday public goes. I dont even want to go into that mess.

I am right in the middle of this debate. I started lifting around 16 for Wrestling and Football never knew much more then what couch told me. I didnt get serious or disiplined till I graduated high school and trained for 2 years straight. Then I did my research and started right before my 20th birthday. Did I not pay my dues? I feel I did. I didnt know everything nor will I ever. But I did my research and had my puking squat days at the gym. But its a lifestyle for me now and I am here to stay.

Thanks to all for that have helped me over the last couple years.

 

[Quadsweep]

Another great post. Just so everyone is clear,I am glad newbs come and ask questions but if given the advice its better to wait by many they do not listen. I am not sad I am not part of a click anymore...I never cared. Its just taken so lightly and for not great strong reasons to possibly harm your health or get in leagle trouble. Many physiques I see that post high doses could have been acheived easily by natural means and hard work and proper nutrition. You are just better off with a solid natural base. Why do you all think I can go off for months with no PCT at all besides Nolva and I do not lose gains. Its because I had a 12 year base and ok genetics...and because I never back off any of my training and eating. Just take it serious because it is is all I am saying.

Quad

What a great thread.

You cant just bash newbies for asking basic questions. We were all newbies at one time. It doesnt matter if your a vet or have been lifting for 5 years, everyone was new to the game at some point. And for the vets that didnt have the internet you would have been proboly a lot better off if you did. Im sure not everyone was comfortable with little information and trial and error. But what seems like simple questions are only simple to the ones that have already done thier research.

At the same time I understand the vets that have to listen to young men that are so ignorant that wont listen because the awnsear is WORK. And its almost sad to hear these guys messing up there bodys with such powerful drugs just simply because they are lazy. And its a JOKE as far as the everyday public goes. I dont even want to go into that mess.

I am right in the middle of this debate. I started lifting around 16 for Wrestling and Football never knew much more then what couch told me. I didnt get serious or disiplined till I graduated high school and trained for 2 years straight. Then I did my research and started right before my 20th birthday. Did I not pay my dues? I feel I did. I didnt know everything nor will I ever. But I did my research and had my puking squat days at the gym. But its a lifestyle for me now and I am here to stay.

Thanks to all for that have helped me over the last couple years.

 

[SgtSlaughter]

Great thread Quad.

 

[youngguns]

nobody under 5'9" should be doin AAS. It may stunt your growth. LOL! j/k bro.
Nice build in your avi.

thanks a lot man, this website it some of the best for training/setup, and just a general great atmosphere, I love everyone including pdaddy

 

[Muscle Overkill]

Rely less on steroids and more on diet, training and consistency !

 

[GoldenDelicious]

im not a huge fan of the "you have to pay your dues bla bla bla" mindset, becasue its innefficient, and boysclubbish (i hate boys clubs, its bullshit.)

personally, i have no problem with people using roids from day 1, at age 18 - so long as they have the neccessary traits in place so that their training intensity/diet/dedication is subject to the neccessary discipline needed in order for a decent cost:benefit ratio to be achieved for the individual using xyz roid

that being said, the current level of roids acceptance/education in society, coupled with the instant gratification mindset spoken of above, facilitates more young people or new trainers taking the roid plunge before their neccessary training skillsets/mental mindsets have developed, leading to poor health and training outcomes

cut a long story short, we're eitehr going to stop handing out info so readily and stop make it so appealing for newbies (and the cat here is well and truly out of the bag, killing native wildlife and has gone feral as hell) OR we're going to spoonfeed info to beginners so as to eliminate the stupid band aid to body image mentality infecting so many, which imo could only be done effectively on a legislative level - ie doctors and lawmakers facilitating the process (currently the reverse is taking place)

that being said, we're talking about young people (or young at heart) and so just like alcohol and speed related deaths on our roads, in reality, unless there is HUGE public acceptance and education about sustainable, sensible roid use...its not going to stop.

bodybuilding and muscle bellies are mainstream now, meaning we get our share of mainstream idiots...and not to be too pessimistic, but most people are really, really stupid. the twits are here, and theyre staying

also, next time you rant, please put in some sex references. thanks

 

[get456]

lol....he had to start over and remake his image.

actually YOUNGGUNS was here BEFORE beautiful bisex...... he apparently made that alter just so he could be a fucking retard ... that is ALMOST as bad as posting fake pics and claiming they are you....

 

[youngguns]

actually YOUNGGUNS was here BEFORE beautiful bisex...... he apparently made that alter just so he could be a fucking retard ... that is ALMOST as bad as posting fake pics and claiming they are you....

what are you talking about?

 

[silver_shadow]

228#! That is sad also BTW!

Quad

~ 210 comp weight if i'm not mistaken

 

[silver_shadow]

im not a huge fan of the "you have to pay your dues bla bla bla" mindset, becasue its innefficient, and boysclubbish (i hate boys clubs, its bullshit.)

personally, i have no problem with people using roids from day 1, at age 18 - so long as they have the neccessary traits in place so that their training intensity/diet/dedication is subject to the neccessary discipline needed in order for a decent cost:benefit ratio to be achieved for the individual using xyz roid

that being said, the current level of roids acceptance/education in society, coupled with the instant gratification mindset spoken of above, facilitates more young people or new trainers taking the roid plunge before their neccessary training skillsets/mental mindsets have developed, leading to poor health and training outcomes

cut a long story short, we're eitehr going to stop handing out info so readily and stop make it so appealing for newbies (and the cat here is well and truly out of the bag, killing native wildlife and has gone feral as hell) OR we're going to spoonfeed info to beginners so as to eliminate the stupid band aid to body image mentality infecting so many, which imo could only be done effectively on a legislative level - ie doctors and lawmakers facilitating the process (currently the reverse is taking place)

that being said, we're talking about young people (or young at heart) and so just like alcohol and speed related deaths on our roads, in reality, unless there is HUGE public acceptance and education about sustainable, sensible roid use...its not going to stop.

bodybuilding and muscle bellies are mainstream now, meaning we get our share of mainstream idiots...and not to be too pessimistic, but most people are really, really stupid. the twits are here, and theyre staying

also, next time you rant, please put in some sex references. thanks

unfortunately, 99 out of 100 times the training intensity/diet/dedication (or lack thereof) and wanting a shortcut go hand in hand. at the end of the day, if someone chooses to do so it's their own problem - because it's their body and their health and since this is the internet i don't know them personally so it makes no difference to me. so obviously they are free to go ahead and be stupid. what i do have a problem with is these guys starting out at 130lbs and with a few cycles under their belt, 160lbs of internet muscle and a couple of thousand posts on EF, they then start dishing out advice to noobs - every thread by an 18 yr old noob who asks what cycle he should be running and there has to be one guy who will say something like "you guys who say 18 yr old noobs shouldn't be juicing, get off your high horse... blah blah blah". that is just plain irresponsible.

 

[ProtienFiend]

I agree with many posts in this thread. There are actually too many to highlight. I am glad this was brought to light. I was introduced to all of this when I was 21 by a 32 year old mentor. I was working out seriously and into the lifestyle since 16. I had went from 144.5lbs exactly on the day I started to 217-220 natural, depending on the day. It took a lot of kitchen and gym time to get that way and still remain lean with small waist, but it was worth the effort.

After a year of research, a lot of thought and exhausting every natural means possible to add more size, I then looked at the risk/reward benefit to it all. Was this something I wanted badly? If it were just to get a beach body or the male model look, then no. I found out with hard work in the gym, bedroom and kitchen, you could attain that look naturally and never need more than protein powders, vitamins and creatine (if that). I wanted to go beyond. Not for a trophy, fear, respect, power or girls. I wanted it for me. It's a look I love. I just love the feeling of being in the gym, lifting that iron. I love seeing new mass when I look into the mirror or try on an old shirt.

I love the superhuman strength it gives me for every day life too. I couldn't imagine having trouble picking up a 2lb water jug or running out of breath after walking from my car to the store. It's just amazing to me and the good feeling I get within from being this way. It is not to be superior to others, to be a bully or a hero. To be honest, it's just something I found that makes me feel good in life.

Would I feel this way if I had never worked for it? No. I would be one of those guys that thinks with one or two cycles he could become bigger than Ronnie Coleman. I would sit there and wonder if you had to take steroids to get that Brad Pitt in Fight Club look. I might even be as pathetic as to think the bench was some holy grail and symbol of strength and maybe actually like it when people ask "How much can ya' bench?!". I actually think if I were to have gotten involved without working hard and bulding a base first, I would be far worse off in many aspects. I might even be one of those 'wife beater tough guys'. I don't even think I need to explain that type, we all know one of them.

I see Ulter points out all the bodybuilders from Elite are gone. I respect Ulter and I understand what he means. I remember in 99 and 2000 when I first would lurk on here. You should have seen the hardcore crowd that was here. The cycles would seem insane even by todays standards. And I loved it. I loved it so much that I finally stepped out into the light and signed up. I made it my home. But make no mistake, bodybuilding and bodybuilders are not dead on this board. I see the fire still burning deep within many members here and I see it in the dedication of the veterans that still remain, answering even the most mundane and silly questions, even if it is "Can I drink winny?"..... Fantastic post Quadsweep, it's great to still have a fantastic bro like you on the board.

I've always liked this fellow!

 

[Indy]

At least you don't have people in your gym ( like mine)
with Imaginary Lat syndrome, thats the worse...........

LOL!

 

[Quadsweep]

~ 210 comp weight if i'm not mistaken

Yeah thats close! I hope to pull out like 213 this time out@ like 3.3%!

Q.

 

[iHulk]

dayum! 3.3% Quad.
How many hours can you stay at under 4%? That is absurd dry.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

unfortunately, 99 out of 100 times the training intensity/diet/dedication (or lack thereof) and wanting a shortcut go hand in hand. at the end of the day, if someone chooses to do so it's their own problem - because it's their body and their health and since this is the internet i don't know them personally so it makes no difference to me. so obviously they are free to go ahead and be stupid. what i do have a problem with is these guys starting out at 130lbs and with a few cycles under their belt, 160lbs of internet muscle and a couple of thousand posts on EF, they then start dishing out advice to noobs - every thread by an 18 yr old noob who asks what cycle he should be running and there has to be one guy who will say something like "you guys who say 18 yr old noobs shouldn't be juicing, get off your high horse... blah blah blah". that is just plain irresponsible.

i agree, but unfortunately, thats the nature of the game - illicit drug taking attracts those types of personalities, whether they be risk takers or, well...morons

im a strong pro choice advocate, so in a perfect world there would be roid clinics where you could go in and have your levels/weight/diet checked by appropriate health professionals and have access to psych personell for management of associated mental issues, either developed as a result of roid use, or latent issue that come out.

the reality is more insidious and unfortunately, here to stay - so we have to switch to a harm minimisation mindset, which is why im risking my professional credibility giving advice on a roid board. ive had more than one discussion with doctors pharmacists that go along the lines of:

me: yah, there was this roider with xyz problem on a board i frequent..
anotehr pharmacist/doctor: what! you associate with people who take steroids?!?!!
me: yes of course. if we have methadone programs to help heroin users adn alcohol programs to help alcoholics, why shouldnt i take the time to help a bunch of otherwise healthy guys maximise the benefit of what theyre doing and minimise harm. ignoring steroids isnt going to make them go away, and besides, why should they? we happily let 16 year old girls butcher their breats legally for $10 000 and are jealous of the surgeon driving his ferrari, why not help a guy safely get some nice pecs? you guys all have your heads up your arses, wht the fuck is the matter with you, you cant do fuck all if youre not at ground zero

(this said to a guy 20 years my senior, whose jaw hit the floor - but wtf was he going to say? )

 

[silver_shadow]

im risking my professional credibility giving advice on a roid board. ive had more than one discussion with doctors pharmacists that go along the lines of:

me: yah, there was this roider with xyz problem on a board i frequent..
anotehr pharmacist/doctor: what! you associate with people who take steroids?!?!!
me: yes of course. if we have methadone programs to help heroin users adn alcohol programs to help alcoholics, why shouldnt i take the time to help a bunch of otherwise healthy guys maximise the benefit of what theyre doing and minimise harm. ignoring steroids isnt going to make them go away, and besides, why should they? we happily let 16 year old girls butcher their breats legally for $10 000 and are jealous of the surgeon driving his ferrari, why not help a guy safely get some nice pecs? you guys all have your heads up your arses, wht the fuck is the matter with you, you cant do fuck all if youre not at ground zero

(this said to a guy 20 years my senior, whose jaw hit the floor - but wtf was he going to say? )

lol nice