Var only . Sensible question I promise.

[fatcoow]

6'1. 192 lbs. 23 years old.

Before we get this started I am using var only or rather orals only because I have extremely sensitive skin and even when getting a simple blood test look like I have been sun burnt all over and am in extreme pain at the point on puncture.

I am open to suggestions for other safer and lower side effect orals. My goal is to gain muscle that is retainable and comes with minimal to no water retention.

I have read anywhere from 60 to 120 mg being the max safe dosage to run for anavar for. I have no idea who to believe. Also I am wondering what the longest I can run a cycle is. I recently had a son so safety is more important to me than ever.

Also everyone has different opinions on pct for var and what is needed,Id appreciate it if you could chime in on that too.

I am almost certain I haven't asked anything that warrants flaming and look forward to your responses.

Thanks!

 

[NegroPops]

based on your goal, you will want to use compounds that do not aromatize.. aka, turn into estrogen. Turinabol, Anavar, and Winstrol are good options for this. Anavar can be run up to 100 mg a day safely, but the more you take the harder it will be to recover from. You can run Anavar safely up to around 8 weeks. Other compounds should be run around 6 weeks at most because of the toxicity. Stacking 2 milder hormones together isn't a bad idea as long as you use plenty of support.

As for PCT, you don't want to be shut down going into it. If you don't want to use needles. then HCG is not an option. HCGenerate would be a good replacement. As for the PCT itself, a low dose of clomid at no more than 25 mg a day, combined with Forma Stanzol, and natural test boosters should be just fine.

A good oral cycle, to put on keepable size with low sides would be this:

1-6 Turinabol @ 60 mg per day
3-8 Anavar @ 80 mg per day
1-8 N2Guard 2 servings per day
1-8 HCGenerate 1 serving per day

PCT
9-12 Clomid 25/25/12.5/12.5
9-12 Forma Stanzol 5 pumps twice per day
9-12 Post Cycle/Unleashed Combo
9-12 D-Apartic Acid

 

[NegroPops]

or if you wanted to just run Anavar only, drop the Turinbol out, run the Anavar from weeks 1-8, and drop the N2Guard to 1 serving per day.

 

[noodles1010]

Anavar 60 mg day first four weeks then bump to 80mg day last two weeks
1-6 proviron 75 mg day
1-6 n2guard
1-6 hcgenerate
1-6 lipid stabil
1-10 creatine nitrate
1-10 need2slin
3-10 forma stanzol thru pct

pct
7-10 clomid 25/25/25/25
7-10 unleashed/post cycle combo
7-10 daa power chews or powder

Of course test is really good to have when doing var. I notice it to work much better this way. Maybe look into transdermal test so u dont have to pin.
U will get nice results with what I laid out above tho.

 

[fatcoow]

thanks so much, lots of great info! I am pretty much debating doing one of the above cycles or possibly doing an all natty cycle but honestly I am unaware of natural supplements that help gain mass that don't cause ridiculous amounts of water retention. I have seen mention of multiple threads about mass gaining through natural supplement stacks but I haven't been able to find tnem. I am genetically predisposed to being useless haha, so have worked very hard to get where I am that's why whatever choice I have to make rest assured will be supplemented by extremely hard work.

 

[fatcoow]

I am a little confused at cycle length, is there any optimal period? Or are you guys just suggesting things based on personal preference?

 

[Jbranken]

Have you researched sarms? These can be pretty amazing for your goals as well. Ostarine and s4 together would be a sick start for you and way cheaper than anavar and tbol

 

[MrSinister]

I'd say SARM's for a first run as well. Osta if bulking, Osta and S-4 for recomp/cutting.

 

[fatcoow]

I've used a SARM before from uniqemicals...I forget what it was called as it was a while ago...GW something I believe. It was mainly for losing fat and to be honest, I took a decent amount ( recomended to me by someone on here with a great reputation ) and trained hard and didn't get any unusual results so not sure how I feel about SARMS.

Also, from the little that I have heard it appears OSTA and S-4 have a lot more sides than Var ?

For PCT, if I cannot get the multiple supps mentioned above, is it okay to run a single one or is that too dangerous?

Thanks again guys,this forum truly is people looking to help.

 

[Jbranken]

So youll spend hundreds on tbol and anavar but screw that pct crap, right? Not that it will be 'dangerous' but you're missing the whole point of pct and frankly, selling yourself short. It's more important than the cycle itself. After you cycle steroids you'll be suppressed. A GOOD PCT will result in bringing back your natural hormones as quickly as possible to help you maintain gains and keep estrogen at bay, otherwise the cycle was for nothing. And you're very wrong about sarms. S4 does have minor vision sides but its not nearly as suppressive as roids, and ostarine is hardly suppressive at all with nearly zero sides and they aren't hepatotoxic like the formentioned aas. Research

 

[fatcoow]

My research unfortunately has been essentially asking other people, as my understand of the human anatomy outside of what exercises to do and biology is relatively basic. I'm guessing the guys I ask just don't like SARMS or possibly don't know better. Sorry for the ignorance and thank you for the help.

 

[noodles1010]

they cycle i laid out, time frame pvt ect is all done.. i covered all bases for u.. there is nothing else to say about it. i have run test and var and looked great after.. pct is major! dont skimp. this is your body and your hormones. u dont fuck around with these things... money is no issue. do it right or dont do it at all

 

[notjake11]

Anavar 60 mg day first four weeks then bump to 80mg day last two weeks
1-6 proviron 75 mg day
1-6 n2guard
1-6 hcgenerate
1-6 lipid stabil
1-10 creatine nitrate
1-10 need2slin
3-10 forma stanzol thru pct

pct
7-10 clomid 25/25/25/25
7-10 unleashed/post cycle combo
7-10 daa power chews or powder

Of course test is really good to have when doing var. I notice it to work much better this way. Maybe look into transdermal test so u dont have to pin.
U will get nice results with what I laid out above tho.

My first cycle (fall of last year) was almost identical to this - mine was 8 weeks - and I loved it. Highly recommend something like this if injectibles aren't an option. Only two additions I had were Ostarine (25mg/day) and Keto Burn (from Mr. Supps) both during PCT.

 

[Lighter Fighter]

Anavar 60 mg day first four weeks then bump to 80mg day last two weeks
1-6 proviron 75 mg day
1-6 n2guard
1-6 hcgenerate
1-6 lipid stabil
1-10 creatine nitrate
1-10 need2slin
3-10 forma stanzol thru pct

pct
7-10 clomid 25/25/25/25
7-10 unleashed/post cycle combo
7-10 daa power chews or powder

Of course test is really good to have when doing var. I notice it to work much better this way. Maybe look into transdermal test so u dont have to pin.
U will get nice results with what I laid out above tho.

Totally unnecessary for a var only cycle.You dont need that much shit for a var cycle.

Heres what you should do.

Get some fish oil and take 8-10g a day, for cholesterol and general health.
Milk thistle or liv 52 for liver protection.
clomid with nolvadex for pct, also its highly recommended to load creatine 5 days before you finish your last tab to give you an extra boost in strength that might drop when coming off..

Thats it, no need to get fancy for such mild cycle.

Works and works real good, you can keep all your gains if you follow what i said and have no side effect.

 

[Jbranken]

Yet you're advising him to use clom and nolva? That's totally unnecessary for any cycle. Two serms for the most mild oral out there..

 

[NegroPops]

the only reason to use Nolva for a pct is if there is a gyno issue, and you are not going to have that at all with anavar. But I do agree that all of that is not needed for an anavar only cycle.

 

[noodles1010]

Totally unnecessary for a var only cycle.You dont need that much shit for a var cycle.

Heres what you should do.

Get some fish oil and take 8-10g a day, for cholesterol and general health.
Milk thistle or liv 52 for liver protection.
clomid with nolvadex for pct, also its highly recommended to load creatine 5 days before you finish your last tab to give you an extra boost in strength that might drop when coming off..

Thats it, no need to get fancy for such mild cycle.

Works and works real good, you can keep all your gains if you follow what i said and have no side effect.

lol... ok...

if he wants to run a supressive aas, cut, gain strength and not skip a beat when he comes off other than a slight drop in strength he should def run it this way. everyone reacts differently.
he reacts easily to sides, wants as little sides as possible, and wants to retain his gains.
is some of it unnecessary, maybe... but like i said, if youre gonna do it might as well do it right.

but no, lets give him nolva and clomid... seriously? cause the sides of nolva wont put him down, aside from it being completely useless in this case.

no surprise why ur karma is shot to shit. jus sayin. not the best advice uve given today im sure.

 

[Lighter Fighter]

The reason for nolva is because when coming off your test levels will be low and estrogen will be high, so thats why nolva is there, its not because of gyno issue and clomid to restore hpta, you dont need high dosage like 200mg of clomid or 60mg nolva like most recommend..

50mg clomid with 40mg nolva for a week then drop nolva to 20mg and continue both for 3 more weeks, or untill you've recovered.. Ive used this protocl with success, nothing was lost when i came off, that was last year when i did var only.

Just my advice and what has worked for me.

 

[noodles1010]

The reason for nolva is because when coming off your test levels will be low and estrogen will be high, so thats why nolva is there, its not because of gyno issue and clomid to restore hpta, you dont need high dosage like 200mg of clomid or 60mg nolva like most recommend..

50mg clomid with 40mg nolva for a week then drop nolva to 20mg and continue both for 3 more weeks, or untill you've recovered.. Ive used this protocl with success, nothing was lost when i came off, that was last year when i did var only.

Just my advice and what has worked for me.

With the cycle I gave him not only does the clomid help control estrogen and boost fsh and Lh but the forma also controls estrogen on a completely diff level. I'm sure it works. There are better options bro with much less sides. The sides of nolvadex vs what I laid out are night and day. If ur gonna run a pct don't you wanna feel as good as possible? So why ask to feel like shit by taking nolva?

 

[Lighter Fighter]

yes you do want to feel as good as possible post cycle and thats exactly how i felt. nolva gave me no sides whatsoever and i did not felt like shit.. if you dont do stupid high dosage you'll be fine..
i have no idea why people bash nolva, there are scientific studies backing it up, nolva also increases test levels by 150%, combining it with clomid is the perfect post cycle, clomid is for stimulating hpta and nolva for anti etrogen, the reason people get sides is they do stupid dosage for long periods of time and do something stupid like 300mg clomid and 60mg nolva, no joke, thats what i heard from other forums, its retarded.

To each his own brother.. Thats my experience, if you like to add more stuff then do so, its just unnecessary.

 

[NegroPops]

scientific studies on women with breast cancer.

 

[goin on 4T]

yes you do want to feel as good as possible post cycle and thats exactly how i felt. nolva gave me no sides whatsoever and i did not felt like shit.. if you dont do stupid high dosage you'll be fine..
i have no idea why people bash nolva, there are scientific studies backing it up, nolva also increases test levels by 150%, combining it with clomid is the perfect post cycle, clomid is for stimulating hpta and nolva for anti etrogen, the reason people get sides is they do stupid dosage for long periods of time and do something stupid like 300mg clomid and 60mg nolva, no joke, thats what i heard from other forums, its retarded.

To each his own brother.. Thats my experience, if you like to add more stuff then do so, its just unnecessary.

Really? Please post up these studies.
I would love to read them.

 

[ceo]

With the cycle I gave him not only does the clomid help control estrogen and boost fsh and Lh but the forma also controls estrogen on a completely diff level. I'm sure it works. There are better options bro with much less sides. The sides of nolvadex vs what I laid out are night and day. If ur gonna run a pct don't you wanna feel as good as possible? So why ask to feel like shit by taking nolva?

guy has super sensitive skin and you want him to rub forma all over it?

I've taken boatloads of nolva and never felt like shit from it either. Not sure where this is coming from the last year or so that nolva makes everyone feel like shit and is worse for sides than clomid.

 

[noodles1010]

guy has super sensitive skin and you want him to rub forma all over it?

I've taken boatloads of nolva and never felt like shit from it either. Not sure where this is coming from the last year or so that nolva makes everyone feel like shit and is worse for sides than clomid.

I've used forma a bunch of times and I have verryyyy sensitive skin, I have psoriasis, and never ever ever had a prob with forma. I would recommend that to anyone. It's good stuff.

I really can't say anything about nolva I guess... All my knowledge comes from word of mouth and reading. I've never used it myself. Maybe I need to give it a go next cycle. A lot of people swear by it, but I do constantly read it makes them feel like shit in pct. clomid never did that to me. A upset stomach once in a while that's it tho.

That's a very honest post

 

[Jbranken]

I've never had any negative sides that I can think of from nolva, and it was always pharma grade. I think everyone should figure out how they react to certain compounds and use a pct that works for them. With that being said, nolva has those underlying sides that you can't really feel, and I'm going to start getting away from it in pct.

 

[ceo]

clomid was always worse sides for me at any dose than even 80mg of nolva.

 

[goin on 4T]

I had, I think, 40mg nolva scripted with my test and it made me feel like shit. I gave it to a buddy.

 

[noodles1010]

i have 20mg scripted to me and i never use it.. it sits in a cabinet. i made him write me two more for aromasin and clomid

 

[Essie]

I have had worse sides from Clomid than from Nolva ... Clomid turns me into a weepy, whining lil' bitch. lol! However, since I decided to start running 19-Nor compounds, nolva is out of the question for me.