Using the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki...good idea?

[chesty]

Yes

 

[-SD-]

The US didnt have any more nukes after the second one was dropped on Nagasaki. We were hoping like hell to be able to build another one in time, or they would surrender after nagasaki.

 

[75th]

The US didnt have any more nukes after the second one was dropped on Nagasaki. We were hoping like hell to be able to build another one in time, or they would surrender after nagasaki.

From the multiple accounts I have read we did indeed have another bomb and it was slated to be dropped on Tokyo on August 12th.

 

[tiger88]

yes

invision could have cost 1 MILLION allied lives (mainly usa) and it set the record striaght with russia who is the tough guy on the block...truman did the correct thing.... the bomb wasnt dropped on germany since it wasnt needed... germany was getting smoked on both east and western fronts and reistence was next to nothing

 

[GoldenDelicious]

http://www.antiwar.com/ips/marquez.php?articleid=6898

the most important paragraphs are these, imo:

The "Franck Report," produced by a panel of seven scientists chaired by James Franck (1925 winner of the Nobel Prize in Physics), recommended that the bomb's overwhelming destructive power be demonstrated "before the eyes of representatives of all United Nations, on the desert or a barren island," in order to scare Japan into surrendering.

"The success which we have achieved in the development of nuclear power is fraught with infinitely greater dangers than were all the inventions of the past," the report warned.

dropping a bomb that killed 150 000 civilians, imo, should never ever be called a "good" idea. call it neccessary, call it logical, rationalise it however you want - but that sort of tragedy should never bear the name "good". ever.

 

[jestros]

I love all these arguements. We dropped the bomb on two civilian targrets. It shorted the war and save soldiers lives. Civilians. Slowly dieing of radiation posioning. Men, women, children. Civilians. But this was ok, because it shortened the war.
AND YET, the same people will tell you that Sadam is evil, because he used chemical weapons on part of his country that was rebelling.
So is it ok to kill innocent people to intimidate an opponent or not?
FUCK NO!

Intentionally killing civilians is wrong, no matter what.

 

[75th]

Both Hiroshima and Nagasaki were military targets.

Thats like saying the Japanese targetted civilians by attacking Pearl Harbor.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

Both Hiroshima and Nagasaki were military targets.

Thats like saying the Japanese targetted civilians by attacking Pearl Harbor.

hm. thats the same rationale that leads to 1000 pound bombs being dropped in civilian areas in iraq.

paint it how you want, the people who decided to drop the bombs knew exactly what they were doing. you dont drop a nuclear fucking bomb on a city and say 'oh, that was a military target' to justify it. have you no concience, or regard for other human beings?

 

[jestros]

Ok, we're going to be nit picky now:

Altogether, the two bombings killed an estimated 110,000 Japanese citizens and injured another 130,000. By 1950, another 230,000 Japanese had died from injuries or radiation. Though the two cities were nominally military targets, the overwhelming majority of the casualties were civilian.

So a total of about 360,000 MOSTLY civilian. If you think that was ok, then you have to think it was ok for Sadam to bomb the rebellion.

 

[75th]

hm. thats the same rationale that leads to 1000 pound bombs being dropped in civilian areas in iraq.

paint it how you want, the people who decided to drop the bombs knew exactly what they were doing. you dont drop a nuclear fucking bomb on a city and say 'oh, that was a military target' to justify it. have you no concience, or regard for other human beings?

I do, but your disdain for the current US administration is blinding you regarding world history. Im surprised you dont blame Bush for the cancer rate in Japan following the bombings.

Excerpt from recently declassified meeting of the Target Committee in Los Alamos, May 10-11, 1945:

6. Status of Targets

A. Dr. Stearns described the work he had done on target selection. He has surveyed possible targets possessing the following qualification: (1) they be important targets in a large urban area of more than three miles in diameter, (2) they be capable of being damaged effectively by a blast, and (3) they are unlikely to be attacked by next August. Dr. Stearns had a list of five targets which the Air Force would be willing to reserve for our use unless unforeseen circumstances arise. These targets are:

(1) Kyoto - This target is an urban industrial area with a population of 1,000,000. It is the former capital of Japan and many people and industries are now being moved there as other areas are being destroyed. From the psychological point of view there is the advantage that Kyoto is an intellectual center for Japan and the people there are more apt to appreciate the significance of such a weapon as the gadget. (Classified as an AA Target)

(2) Hiroshima - This is an important army depot and port of embarkation in the middle of an urban industrial area. It is a good radar target and it is such a size that a large part of the military aspect of the city could be extensively damaged. There are adjacent hills which are likely to produce a focussing effect which would considerably increase the blast damage. Due to rivers it is not a good incendiary target. (Classified as an AA Target)

(3) Yokohama - This target is an important urban industrial area which has so far been untouched. Industrial activities include aircraft manufacture, machine tools, docks, electrical equipment and oil refineries. As the damage to Tokyo has increased additional industries have moved to Yokohama. It has the disadvantage of the most important target areas being separated by a large body of water and of being in the heaviest anti-aircraft concentration in Japan. For us it has the advantage as an alternate target for use in case of bad weather of being rather far removed from the other targets considered. (Classified as an A Target)

(4) Kokura Arsenal - This is one of the largest arsenals in Japan and is surrounded by urban industrial structures. The arsenal is important for light ordnance, anti-aircraft and beach head defense materials. The dimensions of the arsenal are 4100' x 2000'. The dimensions are such that if the bomb were properly placed full advantage could be taken of the higher pressures immediately underneath the bomb for destroying the more solid structures and at the same time considerable blast damage could be done to more feeble structures further away. (Classified as an A Target)

(5) Niigata - This is a port of embarkation on the N.W. coast of Honshu. Its importance is increasing as other ports are damaged. Machine tool industries are located there and it is a potential center for industrial despersion. It has oil refineries and storage. (Classified as a B Target)

(6) The possibility of bombing the Emperor's palace was discussed. It was agreed that we should not recommend it but that any action for this bombing should come from authorities on military policy. It was agreed that we should obtain information from which we could determine the effectiveness of our weapon against this target.

B. It was the recommendation of those present at the meeting that the first four choices of targets for our weapon should be the following:

a. Kyoto
b. Hiroshima
c. Yokohama
d. Kokura Arsenal


C. Dr. Stearns agreed to do the following: (1) brief Colonel Fisher thoroughly on these matters, (2) request reservations for these targets, (3) find out more about the target area including exact locations of the strategic industries there, (4) obtain further photo information on the targets, and (5) to determine the nature of the construction, the area, heights, contents and roof coverage of buildings. He also agreed to keep in touch with the target data as it develops and to keep the committee advised of other possible target areas. He will also check on locations of small military targets and obtain further details on the Emperor's palace.

7. Psychological Factors in Target Selection

A. It was agreed that psychological factors in the target selection were of great importance. Two aspects of this are (1) obtaining the greatest psychological effect against Japan and (2) making the initial use sufficiently spectacular for the importance of the weapon to be internationally recognized when publicity on it is released.

B. In this respect Kyoto has the advantage of the people being more highly intelligent and hence better able to appreciate the significance of the weapon. Hiroshima has the advantage of being such a size and with possible focussing from nearby mountains that a large fraction of the city may be destroyed. The Emperor's palace in Tokyo has a greater fame than any other target but is of least strategic value.

8. Use Against "Military" Objectives

A. It was agreed that for the initial use of the weapon any small and strictly military objective should be located in a much larger militarily dense area subject to blast damage in order to avoid undue risks of the weapon being lost due to bad placing of the bomb.