Usa Vs China

[1_more_rep]

hey everyone...i was curious about the United States' stance when it comes to China...

Yes, the US army is the strongest in the world right now. But, the Chinese have WAAAAAY more people meaning they can put together a MUCH bigger army. Also, US falls into more and more debt as time passes while China's economy flourishes. Also, the US has dedicated troops all over the world right now - 60,000 in Japan to act as an army to defend against a Chinese invasion (if 1 was to occur) and a standing army in Germany to protect those people since they cannot hold an army of their own like Japan. Also, the US is very involved with Iraq and has a huge amount of soldiers THERE as well. China also keeps buying up industries like Unocal, mills, etc. You may be thinking OH thats impossible because of the UN. But since China is one of the major powers and has veto powers the US would not be a strong voice in that case i'm guessing? Besides...we all know that America is not very popular around the world since Iraq started pretty much.

so i was wondering...if the 2 countries were to go to war over a power struggle (which isn't TOO farfetched to imagine) which would win?

What do you guys think? let's hear your input

 

[redguru]

How is China going to invade the US?

• They have no troop transport capability, Aircraft or Sea.
• Their military is mostly conscripts drawn up by the provinces when needed and only have a couple days military training.

If the gloves were off, we'd pan-fry them in the Yellow river.

 

[bigmann245]

i think we will use our nukes. they will somehow justify why they used them. whether they say that china was about to use them on us so we hit them first blah blah blah. i think it would be the only way we can win without having another vietnam. nobody has the balls to come to our country and do anything like start a war. terrorists are ball-less fucks so they dont count. i mean no country has the balls to come over here and try anything.

 

[jacked clown]

Well if you guys didnt know there are such things as Terminators that the US army is mass producing as we speak...I am one of them and so is my hamster

 

[1_more_rep]

How is China going to invade the US?

• They have no troop transport capability, Aircraft or Sea.
• Their military is mostly conscripts drawn up by the provinces when needed and only have a couple days military training.

If the gloves were off, we'd pan-fry them in the Yellow river.

well as time goes on they advance in technology and will probably figure out ways to think of these things i imagine. Since China continues to train their very large army (or so i read somewhere), they will probably think of any problems in their way. there IS a huge advantage for the US i agree though...US is surrounded by water mostly and can use radar technologies, etc. to have a huge tracking of the enemy forces and planes

and iraq will send the US even deeper into debt. So i was thinking we all know how China has a big rivalry with Japan and has always wanted to take over...could it be possible that they are waiting until they are even stronger and have an even BETTER economy to invade japan in which case the US only has 60,000 troops there and has other troops dedicated to other areas and it would cost ALOT of money to send them over and they would have to spend less attention on iraq (which could be disastrous). So basically i was wondering if you guys think this is in any way possible? or do you think there won't be a war between these superpowers for a long time or forever since we have established organizations such as NATO, etc. to use diplomacy?

 

[1_more_rep]

i think we will use our nukes. they will somehow justify why they used them. whether they say that china was about to use them on us so we hit them first blah blah blah. i think it would be the only way we can win without having another vietnam. nobody has the balls to come to our country and do anything like start a war. terrorists are ball-less fucks so they dont count. i mean no country has the balls to come over here and try anything.

yeah that's what i was thinking...i was wondering if it wouldnt even involve infantry and go straight to bombs away and planes...

 

[ziggyziggy]

hey everyone...i was curious about the United States' stance when it comes to China...

Yes, the US army is the strongest in the world right now. But, the Chinese have WAAAAAY more people meaning they can put together a MUCH bigger army.

Army size means much less than the training, technological and leadership gaps. Yes, the Chinese have a lot of manpower, but their military is, with a few exceptions, poorly trained, poorly equipped, and poorly led. Remember, two of shit is still shit.

Also, US falls into more and more debt as time passes while China's economy flourishes. Also, the US has dedicated troops all over the world right now - 60,000 in Japan to act as an army to defend against a Chinese invasion (if 1 was to occur) and a standing army in Germany to protect those people since they cannot hold an army of their own like Japan.

China's economic growth has been explosive. However, what you fail to realize is that China has, and continues to invest in the US. They basically fininced our forray into Iraq. They are so completely invested in the US economically, and put such a large portion of their exports into this country, that if we go dow, they will go down even harder. They are not going to start any sort of conflict that would cause a US intervention. They can't afford the consequences.

Also, the US is very involved with Iraq and has a huge amount of soldiers THERE as well. China also keeps buying up industries like Unocal, mills, etc.

They didn't buy Unocal, as congress wasn't about to let them usea state owned company to buy into what is a critical industry here in the US.

You may be thinking OH thats impossible because of the UN. But since China is one of the major powers and has veto powers the US would not be a strong voice in that case i'm guessing? Besides...we all know that America is not very popular around the world since Iraq started pretty much.

The UN has nothing to do with it. They are a toothless, irrelevent, utterly corrupt body. Their resolutions have no teeth. They have no credibility. And, as you may have noticed, we don't pay any attention to them. Neither does China. So, lets just leave that collection of gassbags out of it.

so i was wondering...if the 2 countries were to go to war over a power struggle (which isn't TOO farfetched to imagine) which would win?

What do you guys think? let's hear your input

The US, hands down. If you don't know why, you didn't do your homework before asking the question.

Zig

 

[1_more_rep]

Army size means much less than the training, technological and leadership gaps. Yes, the Chinese have a lot of manpower, but their military is, with a few exceptions, poorly trained, poorly equipped, and poorly led. Remember, two of shit is still shit.



China's economic growth has been explosive. However, what you fail to realize is that China has, and continues to invest in the US. They basically fininced our forray into Iraq. They are so completely invested in the US economically, and put such a large portion of their exports into this country, that if we go dow, they will go down even harder. They are not going to start any sort of conflict that would cause a US intervention. They can't afford the consequences.



They didn't buy Unocal, as congress wasn't about to let them usea state owned company to buy into what is a critical industry here in the US.



The UN has nothing to do with it. They are a toothless, irrelevent, utterly corrupt body. Their resolutions have no teeth. They have no credibility. And, as you may have noticed, we don't pay any attention to them. Neither does China. So, lets just leave that collection of gassbags out of it.



The US, hands down. If you don't know why, you didn't do your homework before asking the question.

Zig

wow zigg answered alot of my Qs...i knew that the chinese exported ALOT to the US but i thought they exported to alot of other countries to it wouldnt hurt them THAT much if they stopped. and i know that China invests alot for US experiments such as iraq so i assumed when they CUT THAT OFF the US would be screwed. and i know that the US is BETTER trained but i still thought the chinese army might be able to overwhelm the US with numbers. But i guess just like the soviets in the WWs numbers don't matter when you are not properly trained and you will lose.

 

[redguru]

wow zigg answered alot of my Qs...i knew that the chinese exported ALOT to the US but i thought they exported to alot of other countries to it wouldnt hurt them THAT much if they stopped. and i know that China invests alot for US experiments such as iraq so i assumed when they CUT THAT OFF the US would be screwed. and i know that the US is BETTER trained but i still thought the chinese army might be able to overwhelm the US with numbers. But i guess just like the soviets in the WWs numbers don't matter when you are not properly trained and you will lose.

Umm, check that again, I don't remember Post-WW2 there being a Union of German Socialist Republics.

 

[75th]

No nation on the face of the earth at the moment can hold a candle to the might of the US military when fully unleashed.

The only nation that would come close is Russia.

 

[1_more_rep]

Umm, check that again, I don't remember Post-WW2 there being a Union of German Socialist Republics.

well the reason the soviets won the stalingrad battle was moreso because they were not used to the harsh weather while the soviets WERE so many of them froze to death, etc. right? and the soviets DID greatly outnumber the german troops so that helps too, along with the harsh weather that almost defeated the German army alone - feel free to correct me here if i'm wrong - am rusty on my history of wars

 

[DJ_UFO]

How is China going to invade the US?

• They have no troop transport capability, Aircraft or Sea.
• Their military is mostly conscripts drawn up by the provinces when needed and only have a couple days military training.

If the gloves were off, we'd pan-fry them in the Yellow river.

True. Plus, Asians always do the same mistake. They prepare to go to war and die with honor. Americans, prepare for war, kick some asses and come back with the victory. Death isn't good enough for us.

 

[75th]

well the reason the soviets won the stalingrad battle was moreso because they were not used to the harsh weather while the soviets WERE so many of them froze to death, etc. right? and the soviets DID greatly outnumber the german troops so that helps too, along with the harsh weather that almost defeated the German army alone - feel free to correct me here if i'm wrong - am rusty on my history of wars

Hitler spread his military way too thin. Combine the weather, homecourt advantage, and the fact that the majority of supplies to Germans on the eastern front were cut off and Hitler didnt stand much of a chance.

If only Hitler hadnt gotten greedy and attacked Russia, he would have eventually kissed and made up with Britain and all would have been done. Europe would look much different today.

 

[ziggyziggy]

wow zigg answered alot of my Qs...i knew that the chinese exported ALOT to the US but i thought they exported to alot of other countries to it wouldnt hurt them THAT much if they stopped. and i know that China invests alot for US experiments such as iraq so i assumed when they CUT THAT OFF the US would be screwed. and i know that the US is BETTER trained but i still thought the chinese army might be able to overwhelm the US with numbers. But i guess just like the soviets in the WWs numbers don't matter when you are not properly trained and you will lose.

You can have all of the soldiers in the world, but when you have no way to get them quickly to a theater, and they are less mobile in combat than fat albert, you are going to get pwned in this day and age in combat.

Zig

 

[1_more_rep]

Hitler spread his military way too thin. Combine the weather, homecourt advantage, and the fact that the majority of supplies to Germans on the eastern front were cut off and Hitler didnt stand much of a chance.

If only Hitler hadnt gotten greedy and attacked Russia, he would have eventually kissed and made up with Britain and all would have been done. Europe would look much different today.

exactly...if hitler hadn't attacked russia and turned on his ally, Germany would have almost certainly come out victorious. I've always wondered what Hitler was trying to do when he decided to attack Russia. Even if he wanted world power and to spread his ideals he should have secured western europe and worried about the American threat then once victorious start to worry about Russia. Anyways, i'm glad everything worked out the way it did. The whole Hitler attacking Russia is kinda off topic anyways

 

[redguru]

Arguing with 1_more_rep is like pulling your own teeth. It's way too painful to do unless in one swift motion or with copious amounts of alcohol.

 

[1_more_rep]

Arguing with 1_more_rep is like pulling your own teeth. It's way too painful to do unless in one swift motion or with copious amounts of alcohol.

lol red ...for once we are having civil exchanges of opinion and theyre going good don't ruin it! i am realizing you have some good points instead of shutting you off when i see a post of yours

so drink up bro lol

 

[Mr. dB]

Look at the Eastern Front in WWII, Nazi Germany vs. USSR. Nazi Germany had the world's best war machine at the time, but Russia just kept throwing human fodder at them.

If it was just US vs. China, China wins. However, Russia sees China as a threat, so they would probably be our allies in this struggle and US + Russia vs. China = China loses. We'd probably have India and/or Pakistan on our side too, since they have good reason to fear a world-dominating China.

 

[75th]

exactly...if hitler hadn't attacked russia and turned on his ally, Germany would have almost certainly come out victorious. I've always wondered what Hitler was trying to do when he decided to attack Russia. Even if he wanted world power and to spread his ideals he should have secured western europe and worried about the American threat then once victorious start to worry about Russia. Anyways, i'm glad everything worked out the way it did. The whole Hitler attacking Russia is kinda off topic anyways

He wanted access to the oil in the Caspian Sea. Quickest route was straight through Stalin's back yard.

 

[DJ_UFO]

Arguing with 1_more_rep is like pulling your own teeth. It's way too painful to do unless in one swift motion or with copious amounts of alcohol.

LMAO!!

 

[75th]

Look at the Eastern Front in WWII, Nazi Germany vs. USSR. Nazi Germany had the world's best war machine at the time, but Russia just kept throwing human fodder at them.

If it was just US vs. China, China wins. However, Russia sees China as a threat, so they would probably be our allies in this struggle and US + Russia vs. China = China loses. We'd probably have India and/or Pakistan on our side too, since they have good reason to fear a world-dominating China.

China stands no chance against us.

 

[ziggyziggy]

Look at the Eastern Front in WWII, Nazi Germany vs. USSR. Nazi Germany had the world's best war machine at the time, but Russia just kept throwing human fodder at them.

If it was just US vs. China, China wins. However, Russia sees China as a threat, so they would probably be our allies in this struggle and US + Russia vs. China = China loses. We'd probably have India and/or Pakistan on our side too, since they have good reason to fear a world-dominating China.

China has no way of getting their troops to anywhere but within a short distance of their border. They have no logistical ability to speak of. Hands down, they get their asses handed to them.

Zig

 

[1_more_rep]

China has no way of getting their troops to anywhere but within a short distance of their border. They have no logistical ability to speak of. Hands down, they get their asses handed to them.

Zig

i'm surprised no one has mentioned the amount of EXPERIENCE America has in fighting wars. I just thought of this as a reason America would kick ass in a war - even against super power china. America has existed for a little over 200 years...and has had SO many wars i.e. french and indian war, revolutionary war, civil war, world war I, world war II, korean war, vietnam, iraq part I, iraq part II, spanish/american war, and more...i am not familiar with the history of Chinese warfare but i know that they have fought with japan and taiwan but not much else if i am correct?

 

[Mr. dB]

China has no way of getting their troops to anywhere but within a short distance of their border. They have no logistical ability to speak of. Hands down, they get their asses handed to them.

I guess that depends on where this war takes place then. I don't think we could successfully invade them, one on one.

 

[Tiervexx]

There is no doubt that their army is a big mess. Their army is very inexperienced, primative, and underarmed but you are all overestimating how sane their leaders are.

China would be helpless in open war, but they might know that, which is why they have made it clear that the moment we went to war with them they would start shooting nukes. LOTS OF 'EM. Most would not get here but some might, and that would still be enough to be terrible.

 

[Tiervexx]

Look at the Eastern Front in WWII, Nazi Germany vs. USSR. Nazi Germany had the world's best war machine at the time, but Russia just kept throwing human fodder at them.

russia did not outfight the Germans in anyway. They won because the German economy caved in and by that time the Nazi leaders, paticularly Hitler were totally out of their minds and bearly even tried to supply their troops.

Many of the trains that could have sent supplies to their eastern front where instead used to move Jews to deathcamps. The German eastern front really was abandonded and frozen to death more than it was beaten.

 

[75th]

I guess that depends on where this war takes place then. I don't think we could successfully invade them, one on one.

Thats why God, and a few mortals, invented nuclear weapons.

 

[1_more_rep]

There is no doubt that their army is a big mess. Their army is very inexperienced, primative, and underarmed but you are all overestimating how sane their leaders are.

China would be helpless in open war, but they might know that, which is why they have made it clear that the moment we went to war with them they would start shooting nukes. LOTS OF 'EM. Most would not get here but some might, and that would still be enough to be terrible.

that is a valid point...but one SCARY as hell thought to think about

 

[GoldenDelicious]

niether would win. thats the thing with wars.

 

[Hiatussin]

Both would get nuked its a total mexican standoff and a deja vu

If you´re standing with some dude in a freight container and you get in a fight and one has 4 handgrenades and the other has 8 well yippie fuck

 

[Tiervexx]

that is a valid point...but one SCARY as hell thought to think about

Yeah. I don't like it either. And like Golden said, neither of us could really win. Any result would be ugly.

 

[Growth&Courage]

I don't think the media has portrayed China correctly and I absolutely disagree that just because China is the world's fastest growing economy and increasingly expanding their purchase of foreign companies as well as the rise of its military strength should be view in a threatening way.

It is natural for a country whose population is almost reaching 1.5 billion to be reaching such economy and military growth sooner or later. No surprises there. I am much more concern about the "sanity" of the US leader.

 

[ziggyziggy]

I guess that depends on where this war takes place then. I don't think we could successfully invade them, one on one.

This is true. We wouldn't have a chance in hell of invading and holding China.

Zig

 

[needtogetaas]

No nation on the face of the earth at the moment can hold a candle to the might of the US military when fully unleashed.

The only nation that would come close is Russia.

Isreal.the best traned army in the world,and they have all the same stuff that we do cuze we sell it to them.

 

[javaguru]

Stalingrad was lost for the following reasons;

1. Hitler's insistance on pouring veterans into a city fight meatgrinder which took away much of the Wehrmachts advantages over the red army. That being command, control, coomunication and maneuver warfare. They played into the Soviet "mass assault" style of warfare.

2. Leaving the Italians to guard your left flank! German infantry literally had to be positioned to the rear with machine guns to keep them from running.

3. Von Paulus obeying Hitler and not attempting a break out after the Italians folded and encirclement became inevitable. He basically doomed 6th army as no relief effort was realistic. Von Paulus was one of the politically reliable "yes men" Hitler appointed after he relieved his experienced generals, like Guderian, after the failure to take Moscow.

Basically, Barbarossa was pretty much doomed to failure. Hitler's political beliefs, ideology, Soviet production, logistics, will to resist and manpower ensured a conquest was almost impossible as long a Stalin allowed his generals to run the war. Had they entered the republics,like the Ukraine, as liberators instead of conquerors they would have had a good shot at overthrowing Stalin and having a puppet regime but with Hitler at the helm that was impossible.

 

[javaguru]

i'm surprised no one has mentioned the amount of EXPERIENCE America has in fighting wars. I just thought of this as a reason America would kick ass in a war - even against super power china. America has existed for a little over 200 years...and has had SO many wars i.e. french and indian war, revolutionary war, civil war, world war I, world war II, korean war, vietnam, iraq part I, iraq part II, spanish/american war, and more...i am not familiar with the history of Chinese warfare but i know that they have fought with japan and taiwan but not much else if i am correct?

Well, the Chinese have been fighting wars as a nation state longer than any Western country, not that fighting with spears in 200 BC means anything in modern warfare. They fought each other in a civil war prior to the Japanese invasion in 1937 and fought the Japanese until the end of the war in 1945. They immediately went back to fighting a civil war after WWII until the communists won. Chinese "volunteers" fought against UN forces in Korea basically saving the North Koreans from utter defeat. What most people don't realize is the most likely conflict between two major powers wasn't the US and Soviet Union but China and the Soviet Union. There have been border clashes between the two powers as late as the 1980's.

One thing US special Forces noticed in Vietnam was how good ethnically Chinese South Vietnamese soldiers were. They were very easy to lead and the Green Berets always preferred them for mission due to their reliability. Seemed to be a cultural trait.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

Yeah. I don't like it either. And like Golden said, neither of us could really win. Any result would be ugly.

thats right. and the adolescent "fuck yeah! go USA!" attitude you get on a lot of the american boards (thanks, djufo) only serves to increase tension, and foster prejudice.

china, like india, if full of people who are going to make their presence felt on the world stage greatly in the next few decades. weighing them up as enemies is not useful. looking at them as trading pasrtners is.

besides, as ziggyziggy said, the chinese are indelibly linked with the US economically- the US uses them as a production base, while the chinese bankroll the US's ongoing spending spree (which can only continue if the vast wealth gap in china continues, since really, all of this rides on the backs of chinese peasant slaves) and have in them a major consumer market. war with china serves no one.

yet.

 

[jacked clown]

and we forgot one tiny detail...Their Chinese. Hell the baddest mofo that ever came outa china died from advil.

 

[1_more_rep]

and we forgot one tiny detail...Their Chinese. Hell the baddest mofo that ever came outa china died from advil.

lol who are you referring to?