Upright rows replace lateral rases ?

[buffchic69]

Hey all.

An article in this months ironman magazine.I read every mag out there- a Ron Harris article he states effective for both men & women-

It says if you feel you have hit a plataue especially when it comes to bringing your side delts out- switch from lat raise to upright rows !

he states rows are just as effective as lat raises for round, full, side-delt mass. Lastly, his article stated: Upright rows also allow you to lift more weight, while keeping your form is also easier lifting up, rather than lifting out to your sides.

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY HE STATED: always use a shoulder-width or wider grip to hit the lateral head, AND NEVER!!!! lift to your chin. bring the weight up to nipple level.


That's my current problem: I have been stuck at the same weight for side-delts for quite a while now, and while I have perfected my form, and my shoulders really burn, I'd like to go heavier, but I can't with lat. raises.


Do any of you do upright rows for the side delts ?


Thanks !!!!

 

[jenscats5]

I do front lat raises, side lat raises + upright rows.....

 

[The Shadow]

Bullshit....


it depends on hand placement...f you want large traps hi the upright rows

 

[buffchic69]

Bullshit....


it depends on hand placement...f you want large traps hi the upright rows

Thanks shadow. Did you see my new pics ? I owe it all to you !!!!!!!

 

[The Shadow]

...you did all the work......



Congrats!!!

 

[Daisy_Girl]

I like upright rows - but they can be killer on the shoulder joint (not in a good way) if you are not careful. I have alternate upright rows and lateral raises every few weeks. Nice to have variations.

 

[Sassy69]

As far as side laterals go, let me tell you that I see plenty of big, solid guys using 20 lb weights for these. I'm 'plateaued' at 15 lb, but any more than that will seriously aggravate my shoulders.

There are some exercises that you simply do NOT have to seek to go heavier on. Part of the whole point of doing various exercises is NOT to just keep going heavier, but rather to grow a muscle or create a certain shape. To that end, instead of going heavier, you can modify what you are doing with the exercise. Include it in some supersetting for example.

Tonite, my shoulders were getting freaky with this superset of 4 cycles:

- shrugs w/ a bar + 25 lb plates (mind you my usual shrugs can go up to 2 45's on each side.. but I'm going for shaping my shoulders and getting the muscles to pop), picking the bar up off the deadlift rack (just short of waist high), hands holding the bar in front of my legs, and pulling in faster reps, keeping my shoulder straight across or higher, i.e. not doing a full range shrug - reps are 50 / 40 / 30/ 20 (per cycle)

- 8 lb DBs, side lateral raises, keeping elbows high (instead of arms straight out) and wrists bent (so hand is sort of holding the weight and hanging down) - reps are 50/40/30/20, hold each rep for 2 sec at the top

- sort of rear delt / reverse flies - laying chest down on an incline bench (almost flat, but slight incline) w/ 12 lb weights out to the side and just lifting a short range to hit the rear delts, 8 reps x 4

- lying on the same incline bench, slight incline, lying on your back, pulling 15 lb dbs up from the floor to close to your sides, straight arms, pulling from your shoulders, 25 x 4

 

[buffchic69]

As far as side laterals go, let me tell you that I see plenty of big, solid guys using 20 lb weights for these. I'm 'plateaued' at 15 lb, but any more than that will seriously aggravate my shoulders.

There are some exercises that you simply do NOT have to seek to go heavier on. Part of the whole point of doing various exercises is NOT to just keep going heavier, but rather to grow a muscle or create a certain shape. To that end, instead of going heavier, you can modify what you are doing with the exercise. Include it in some supersetting for example.

Tonite, my shoulders were getting freaky with this superset of 4 cycles:

- shrugs w/ a bar + 25 lb plates (mind you my usual shrugs can go up to 2 45's on each side.. but I'm going for shaping my shoulders and getting the muscles to pop), picking the bar up off the deadlift rack (just short of waist high), hands holding the bar in front of my legs, and pulling in faster reps, keeping my shoulder straight across or higher, i.e. not doing a full range shrug - reps are 50 / 40 / 30/ 20 (per cycle)

- 8 lb DBs, side lateral raises, keeping elbows high (instead of arms straight out) and wrists bent (so hand is sort of holding the weight and hanging down) - reps are 50/40/30/20, hold each rep for 2 sec at the top

- sort of rear delt / reverse flies - laying chest down on an incline bench (almost flat, but slight incline) w/ 12 lb weights out to the side and just lifting a short range to hit the rear delts, 8 reps x 4

- lying on the same incline bench, slight incline, lying on your back, pulling 15 lb dbs up from the floor to close to your sides, straight arms, pulling from your shoulders, 25 x 4

Great idea Sassy

I think I'm gonna try that !!!! Just one thing: on the last exercise, when you say pull the db's up from the floor, close to sides, arms straight ?
do you mean arms close by your legs in a straight line, or arms out to the
sides like you would do for a chest fly move ?

 

[Sassy69]

Note this is part of my contest prep so its designed to pop muscles right now -- but you get the idea.

My regular shoulder training involves:
- Front laterals
- Side laterals
- upright rows
- shrugs
- military press / machine press

Everything except the front & side laterals is heavy. The front & side laterals both top out at 15-20 lbs. But if you throw in some supersetting you can get benefit from the lateral raises but without having to increase your weights.

 

[buffchic69]

Note this is part of my contest prep so its designed to pop muscles right now -- but you get the idea.

My regular shoulder training involves:
- Front laterals
- Side laterals
- upright rows
- shrugs
- military press / machine press

Everything except the front & side laterals is heavy. The front & side laterals both top out at 15-20 lbs. But if you throw in some supersetting you can get benefit from the lateral raises but without having to increase your weights.

Hey sassy, what exactly does it mean to pop the muscles ?

 

[Sassy69]

I"m getting ready for a BB show. I've been lifting heavy for years & I've got hella bunch of mass on my back & shoulders. But its all "big" -- so I'm doing a lot of short range, high rep supersets to ge particular muscles, i.e. the details, to start coming out & getting defined.

 

[buffchic69]

I"m getting ready for a BB show. I've been lifting heavy for years & I've got hella bunch of mass on my back & shoulders. But its all "big" -- so I'm doing a lot of short range, high rep supersets to ge particular muscles, i.e. the details, to start coming out & getting defined.

WOW !!! So you really top out at 15-20 lbs for front & side lats ?

can you give me an idea of how heavy rows, shrugs, and oh shoulder press should be ? a number to start with ?

And with the upright rows a shoulder-width grip or more to hit side delts ? I think shadow said a wider grip, but exactly how wide ?

 

[Sassy69]

"How heavy" depends on how much energy you have and how clean your form is. The point is to be tight with your form & not so much the weight. I ususally do my upright rows w/ an EZ bar and change up the grip from wide to narrow every couple of weeks.

I can't really saw how it "should"' be because I change up stuff all the time. Same with weights. I was going really heavy earlier this yr because my back was back in shape and I was starting to build up for a BB show in 6 months. If I find that I've been going heavy for a whilie and I've plateaued, then I'll again switch to lighter weight / more reps / faster or superset or whateever.

 

[The Shadow]

WOW !!! So you really top out at 15-20 lbs for front & side lats ?

can you give me an idea of how heavy rows, shrugs, and oh shoulder press should be ? a number to start with ?

And with the upright rows a shoulder-width grip or more to hit side delts ? I think shadow said a wider grip, but exactly how wide ?

Side lats are all about form

When I begin with them...I only work up to the 35's

as a closer - I dont go over 25's



"heavy" for ANYONE is a weight that will cause failure in 6-8 reps with a 6 TUT


wide, for me, means wider than shoulder width

 

[Miss24k]

can you give me an idea of how heavy rows, shrugs, and oh shoulder press should be ? a number to start with ?

Everyone is different and heavy is different for everyone. What I find heavy you may find light, or vice-versa.

Your reps should be between 6-8 per set, and each set should take you 36-48 seconds to complete. By your last few reps you should be dying to put it down. That's heavy, the weight is just a number that's different for all.

 

[buffchic69]

thanks guys !