Unqualified Experts

[Nelson Montana]

It seems it me that the fitness field has more unqualified experts than any other profession. ANYONE can call themselves an expert. Hell, even that fat fuck Dr. Phil has a diet book out! What's up with that?!?!

In bodybuilding it's no better. Guys like Will Brink, and Lyle McDonald certainly know a lot but hardly have great bodies. And the guys with great bodies tend to be genetically gifted from the start. I know one strength coach who was benching 350 when he was 16 years old. Now tell me, what does this guy have to say that'll teach you to be a better bench presser?

It's funny: back in the early 20th century all "Strong Men" marketeers boasted about how they were once "98" pound weaklings. (Of course, EVERYONE is a 98 pound weakling once.) But it seems today most "experts" either had every advantage, used boatloads of drugs, or they STILL look like shit.

Just an observation.

 

[R33t]

Dr. Phil is more psychologically based in techniques for weight loss, for instance, cooking yourself a complete, wholesome meal so the effort required leaves a psychological affect on the person allowing them to better appreciate what they're eating and in return consume their food slowly. It's all practice. Do his techniques work for everyone? No! Do they work for some individuals? Yes! No one is perfect, certainly not Dr. Phil.

There are many apparent experts online and offline, but my experts for training and nutrition will always be Arnold and Franco. Their advice has paid off dearly. This is only one man's opinion, however.

R33t

 

[Nelson Montana]

Although I'm fascinated by the latest information, I find that the old timers had it right more often than not. That's because they used trail and error aas opposed to following the latest "research study." That's why I have so musch respect for Vince Gironda.

What I've tried to do in my writings is combine the best of the new with the best of the old. But if I were to take a stp back and look at the overall picture, I'd say 90% of what turns out to most effective and accurate in the real world is the older stuff.

 

[R33t]

I don't speak for everyone, but Arnold’s training techniques, and even in magazines, are labeled as over training. I quote a guy named Jackass: "Oh, they were only genetic freaks and could handle recommended work outs..." I have to argue against those afraid of over training.

The consistent cutting and bulking (when not even competing), visiting your finer vitamin stores, and looking for alternatives to HARD WORK are the problem. The truth is that if you want to put on hard packed muscle, you need to eat smart and train rigorously!

I've seen too many people bitch about over training, on Atkins diets, not eating, and unfortunately not putting on the muscles they're naturally capable of. I used to hear this shit a while ago, "So you're a juice head?" This was a quote of Jackass’s brother – who probably, today, has a nice set of female tits.

Don't get me wrong, though, AAS and supplements work. I've seen them in action first hand. But ultimately I’ve come to this conclusion: old school training, practical thinking, training hard, eating a lot and often, and writing studies ON YOURSELF and not what some PhD scientist says regarding a general topic of discussion is what brings the balls to the wall. You really need to know YOU!

R33t

 

[ham2]

as pointed out elsewhere, it all boils down to impressive, yet year round & long lasting achievemements.
I have sofar trained 110% natural ( no AAS/hormones but plenty of conventional supplements ).
After a SIX YEARS break of NO TRAINING ( injury+personal problems ) i've made a comeback: i haven't lost a millimeter on my biceps and i'm stronger ( at least: as strong as ) than when i quit.
Try asking any juicehead/magazine "freak" what's about him after six years of no needles & no gym.
and i'm just mr. nobody: no "great genetics", no AAS, nothing.

Today the WWW/LD factor, while it multiplies the information, offers any opportunity to shady individuals good at plagiarizing and/or at coming up with fantasy charachters.
In the oldtimes strenght coaches were known for their achievements, not for some slick, catch-all line on a computer screen.
Bodybuilders were the surprise in town, not some photoshopped picture with a black dot over the face.

It amazes me how polls show that most people would go for a Zane, Arnold or Reeves kind of physique; yet we get these balloon-looking, funny cartoonish figures (dis)gracing magazines.
People who can look great only a forthnight across contests, otherwise they're just big, muscular truck drivers.

 

[Nelson Montana]

as pointed out elsewhere, it all boils down to impressive, yet year round & long lasting achievemements.
I have sofar trained 110% natural ( no AAS/hormones but plenty of conventional supplements ).
After a SIX YEARS break of NO TRAINING ( injury+personal problems ) i've made a comeback: i haven't lost a millimeter on my biceps and i'm stronger ( at least: as strong as ) than when i quit.
Try asking any juicehead/magazine "freak" what's about him after six years of no needles & no gym.
and i'm just mr. nobody: no "great genetics", no AAS, nothing.

Today the WWW/LD factor, while it multiplies the information, offers any opportunity to shady individuals good at plagiarizing and/or at coming up with fantasy charachters.
In the oldtimes strenght coaches were known for their achievements, not for some slick, catch-all line on a computer screen.
Bodybuilders were the surprise in town, not some photoshopped picture with a black dot over the face.

It amazes me how polls show that most people would go for a Zane, Arnold or Reeves kind of physique; yet we get these balloon-looking, funny cartoonish figures (dis)gracing magazines.
People who can look great only a forthnight across contests, otherwise they're just big, muscular truck drivers.

Good post.

 

[hugh croch]

I Agree On The Old School Thoughts

Basically People Overanylyze Shit.

Just Fucking Train And Eat

There Are No Miracles, Just Patience And Consistency And Find The Fine Line Between What Your Body Needs And Doesnt Need

Finally I Like The Thoughts On People Like Bill Pearl On Going To Failure
All The Time

Lhe Mentions Leaving A Bit In The Tank So You Are Ready For The Next Workout

Not Bad Advice From A Guy Who Has Been Training For Like 50 Plus Years

 

[GoldenDelicious]

but nelson, you have your own board...

 

[ham2]

Research "studies" are mostly a J O K E.
I mentioned already i once made friend with a MD Ph.d actually working on liver transplants who -by his own admission- wouldn't know what to say about 4/5 of my BB/nutrition related issues; and he was a full fledged researcher with 100+ published peer rewieved articles (20+ as "first name" ).
Now i doubt whether the first coming "exercise physiologist" or "nutrition" graduate might come up to his knowledge.
" personal trainer's" "certificates" sell a dime a pound ( paper weight ).
I read a funny Montana's article about it.
At my former university in Canada, physical education graduates go along the lines of " what the fuck do you need vitamins for? They're a waste of $ excreted through urines. Supplements are ALL bogus & steroids are going to kill you in a few weeks. Ephedra? Do you remember nice Charlie Wong? Well, that's why he no longer is among us (forget the chinese mafia allegations ) " etc.
On one forum some 12467 post charachter was challenging me on the fact i yet use glutamine post workout ( i think i do better with than without: i've tried both ways ), but i had been called a fool by another board's guru.
I told charachter 12467 to go there & have a pubmed contest with the other guru.
Both had amassed at least 10 pages of "studies" both proving glutamine was bogus AND that glutamine was the best thing since sliced bread...
As expected, 12467 didn't agree.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Nelson, if Vince Gironda's training and diet methods are effective, then why do you bash on keto diets? Didn't the Iron Guru advocate almost zero carb diets for getting into contest condition for many individuals? I'm not saying this to try to show you up. I've read an actual article you wrote that was published denouncing low carb diets, and that seems to be in conflict with your statements about Gironda.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Nelson, if Vince Gironda's training and diet methods are effective, then why do you bash on keto diets? Didn't the Iron Guru advocate almost zero carb diets for getting into contest condition for many individuals? I'm not saying this to try to show you up. I've read an actual article you wrote that was published denouncing low carb diets, and that seems to be in conflict with your statements about Gironda.

Good question. And a fair one.

Yes, Vince was on to this before todays "ketogenic whiz kids" were even born. But I do believe he took a brilliant idea a little too far and toward the end of his life, he softened his stance on it himself. But for the most part, Vinces low carb plan was for competition bodybuilders. In that regard I think there's a place for it. But as an ongoing lifestyle, it's insane.

BTW, I too don't advocate high carbs, but being n a state of ketosis is just plain stupid. Even Vince warned of this, recommending using keto sticks and once ketosis was reached, that's when it was time to eat carbs.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Nelson, interesting stance, and a good answer. Some people however, such as myself, do fine while in ketosis and make great gains in strength and size. When I finish a high carb refeed, I actually test positive for ketones in my urine within 12 hours of cutting my carbs out again, and tend to go into ketosis easily. Would that same rule apply to me?

 

[DrJMW]

Endomorphs, especially those using HGH/T3, do very well with ketosis. They are genetically gifted to withstand times of famine/starvation. If you ever watch Survivor, it is the endomorphs that do well physically.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Nelson, interesting stance, and a good answer. Some people however, such as myself, do fine while in ketosis and make great gains in strength and size. When I finish a high carb refeed, I actually test positive for ketones in my urine within 12 hours of cutting my carbs out again, and tend to go into ketosis easily. Would that same rule apply to me?

Everyone has a different tolerance and as doc mentioned, Endo's do better with ketosis. I've noticed that severely overweight people actually do well with near starvation diets in the early stages, to drop a quick 10 pounds, which goes against all the "rules."

I can't possibly iagine how you can gain size when in ketosis other than looking leaner which often means looking bigger. However, the increase in strength you recieve from being in ketosis is most likely a surge in adrenaline and cortisol -- both catabolic hormones.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Nelson, I'm an endo-mesomorph. No, I'm 5'9" 225 about 9% right now. My massive stack contains about 500 mg total a week. So its not like I'm using 2 grams of test a week to make gains. I cycle my carbs. I find doing 3 days of keto with one day of carb loading gives me the best results. I go into keosis fast.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Nelson, I'm an endo-mesomorph. No, I'm 5'9" 225 about 9% right now. My massive stack contains about 500 mg total a week. So its not like I'm using 2 grams of test a week to make gains. I cycle my carbs. I find doing 3 days of keto with one day of carb loading gives me the best results. I go into keosis fast.

9% for an endo-meso is excellant -- espeically at 225 which is pretty big for a guy 5'9". If you're carbing up after 3 days that's not so bad. But I'll guess you'd feel better and look fully if you got out of ketosis sooner. Of course, you may not be quite as lean. And naturally, even 500 mgs a week will counteract the catabolic effects. I wouldn't recommend being in ketosis for the natural athlete.

 

[faller]

In health and fitness, everyone is an expert! I see a lot of this in the nutrition area just because that's my area. I've had nurses telling patients the wrong thing, people following the strangest diets because someones neighbors uncle lost weight on it. Unfortunatly, I see a lot of trainers doing this also.
Regarding "ham2"s post: no one knows everything. I'm very knowledgable about nutrition because that's what my degree is in, it doesn't mean I know everything about exercise science. That MD may indeed know nothing about bodybuilding, but if he is working with transplants why would he? Additionally, there is an art of sorts to interpreting research articles, and a lot of people don't understand how to do it so they take bits and peices from articles they find and claim it as fact.

 

[ham2]

**********
That MD may indeed know nothing about bodybuilding, but if he is working with transplants why would he?
**********
EXACTLY.
and people ( not even MDs ) who sling mud at each other's "ignorance" through pubmed abstracts do so using work of people who know NOTHING about bodybuilding.
That was my point.

*************
Additionally, there is an art of sorts to interpreting research articles, and a lot of people don't understand how to do it so they take bits and peices from articles they find and claim it as fact.
*************

As i said, i DISCARD the WHOLE idea of an "abstracts war" because too many times i saw people "proving" or "disproving" the same principle using the same abstracts.

 

[faller]

Abstract war is popular here lol. I agree. They suck.