Ultimate Fighting.....

[smash]

I just watched a nhb tournament on cable here, it was called Pride.. it had a couple of the Gracie brothers plus Ken Shamrock fighting..

I've never watched this before and I was impressed, 3 hours of total fucking mayhem lots of KO's plus a snapped elbow (ouch).

But who are these guys?, are they athletes who are washed up in there own sports, boxing, wrestling etc?

Don't get me wrong I think they are awesome, but I was just wondering where come from ?

peace

 

[absolute hardgainer]

The Gracies are still alive?

You sure that wasn't a rerun of an old Pride show?

Honestly, Royce Gracie is past it, that's been clear ever since Wallid Ismael kicked his puny ass. And he said he wanted to fight Mark Kerr. ROTFLMAO!!!

hardgainer (no direspect to the Gracies, sorry)

 

[smash]

errr Mark Kerr was fighting in this tournament I paid $19.95 to see

 

[absolute hardgainer]

Well, I suppose if you saw Mark Kerr, Ken Shamrock and the Gracies fight you got your money's worth.

I'd pay $19.95 to see Royce get hi butt kicked any day!

hardgainer (not a BJJ fanatic)

 

[Superbabe]

hey you guys, thta's the ultimate fighting challenge, Takes place everyear . .. "masters" of different martial styles get together for a no holds barred comptetion ... really cool, people have even died fighting . . .

The gracies are masters of brazillian jujitsu . . .are they are GOOD. Do a search on the www, you'll soon find untold info.

 

[liftsiron]

Ken Shamrock runs a fighting school called the lion's den. First american to kick everyone's ass in asia in no holds barred fighting. The fighter's are at the top of their sport. Shamrock(shoot fighting)

 

[BackDoc]

How was Shamrock the first American in Asia to win against them all? Remember that Bart Vale knocked Shamrock out with one punch when Vale was world shootfighting champ. Shamrock came after Vale. And aren't you forgetting Frank Dux? I know that was kumite, so it's a bit different.

I think the reference to people dying in fights was in the kumites and in the Filipino death matches, not in UFC's.

 

[Superbabe]

i think ken shamrock beat the gracies just lately actually . . . or was it Rick Moneymaker? or Rick Young? . . one of them . . .

 

[BackDoc]

Zinoviev is definitely awesome--dynamite hand is right. I hated to see him fight Frank Shamrock so soon after injury, but that's the nature of the game. I think if they'd fought at the time of Igor vs. Sperry it would've had a different outcome altogether.

Did you see Igor choke out Sperry? Awesome match. I never thought I'd see Sperry lose (what was his record? something like 200 wins no losses?).

 

[absolute hardgainer]

Well, I still think the Gracies are a bunch of hasbeens who never really were anyways, sorry to all you die hard Gracie fans out there. But the only thing that was ever unbeatable about the Gracies was their EGO.

hardgainer (about to get his butt kicked by some BJJ fanatics on this board, eh?)

 

[plifter]

I want to see some of this Pride fighting. Do they have as many rules as Ultimate Fighting? The UFC started to suck when they added rules. They even have to wear gloves now. The only thing is the name "Pride Fighting" sounds like it has something to do with gays.

 

[liftsiron]

Ken Shamrock is still around is Bart Vale? I said asians Vale is american. At least 1 fighter died in ufc. combat. Bloodsport was about Frank Dux who helped write it and supplied most of the story, He is now nuttier than a fruitcake. I should have stated ,however, that beat all his competitors in shoot fighting. On that issue I stand corrected.

 

[BackDoc]

True, Bart Vale is not as active or as brutally effective as he used to be, he is getting into his 40's. He has occasional fights though, but not like he used to have.

Vale created the term "shootfighting" from his days in the PWFG--which preceeded the international shootfighting association (ISFA) in name only. Vale was world champion in 1992, which is earlier than Shamrock's world champ status with Pancrase. And yes, Vale was world champion in PWFG in asia. Shamrock soon after split and went into a different association while Vale held the title for around 2 years.

 

[BackDoc]

Nevermind...the karate kid did it first in the late 80's. But if you really want to get technical Fat man and little boy were the first to win in the east. .......

 

[smash]

Flaming, the tournament I saw was the one where Gracie got his elbow broken, it was the last fight.

A couple of fights before that one another of the Gracies was fighting, I cant remember his name but he was quite young, he won that fight.

Shamrock in his fight threw the towel in for some reason.

I'm looking forward to watching more of this stuff

 

[lynaghgrew]

say what u like about the gracies but with names like royce, renzo and royler those guys must have the stupidest names in world sport.

 

[tbod1]

The only thing I don't like about Pride is that it's always taped and they show it like a month later on ppv. At least I don't have to pay to see it.

 

[youngdeltman]

The Gracies are still alive?

You sure that wasn't a rerun of an old Pride show?

Honestly, Royce Gracie is past it, that's been clear ever since Wallid Ismael kicked his puny ass. And he said he wanted to fight Mark Kerr. ROTFLMAO!!!

hardgainer (no direspect to the Gracies, sorry)

What the fuck? Wallid Ismael has never even fought Royce in a NHB event, or even another Gracie. Maybe in a jiujutsu comp but never in NHB

 

[p0ink]

i have been a brazilian jiu jitsu student for quite some time now, and it amazes me when i see people talking shit about the gracies. they started this shit man. look at all the UFC's, Pride, KOTC, etc. and look at the majority of people who win...thats right, grapplers. and the majority of these grapplers have training in what? that's right, brazilian jiu jitsu, not shit like wrestling. the gracies started this shit, so whether or not you are big fans of them, you still have to give them respect for what they have done for both grappling and MMA tournaments.

p.s. my favorite grappler is not a gracie, it's mario sperry. he is the man (and his tape sets are amazing)

 

[Sebass67]

Hmm...interesting. I really have to give some respect to those guys. Doesn't matter who it is. They all deserve credit. Apparently, one of the guys on the us olympic team on the 2 man bobsled team is captain of Tulsa"i think" football team and is in ultimate fighting. Crazy talent...

 

[DR. NOE]

Pride rocks. Seems like Pride has most of the good fighters now days. Would love to see the UFC returned to the old days when you had 3 fights in one night.

 

[spongebob]

royce gracie was the shit, bottom line. ok, he's a little older now. but he was the shit in the beginnning of UFC.

sun. feb 24th, pride, ken shamrock takes on don "the preditor" frye. sunday, sunday, sunday.

it should be pretty good. i like em both.

 

[Luca Brasi]

omg

Jesus this thread is so full of stupidity I just had to post on it.
Where to start , first off I have done brazilian jiu jitsu for 7 years including teaching plus boxing for almost as long so spare me the shit about bagging the gracies and brazilian jiu jitsu ok.

The gracies did not in any way shape or form invent a style of fighting , they took ju jitsu from japan and made some MINOR changes in the grand scheme of the style and then put their name on it , all the techniques they use were around a long time before them and will continue to be around a long time after their all dead and buried. To try to claim any credit for ju jitsu teckniques is just ridiculous. The gracies were responsable and useful for only one thing , and that is having brought NHB style fighting to mainstream america.

Trying to cover all that was said in this thread so excuse me if I jump all over the place.

pOink - Most of what you said was downright uneducated stupidity ....sorry I cant put it any other way. The gracies happened to be the first to latch onto an american pvp event nothing more ..now they are regualrly dominated in both NHB and jiu jitsu competition. I will send you copies of ever fight they ever had at an event if you would like. Royce was thoroughly domnited by sakuraba in NHB and by wallid ismael in jiu jitsu competition . The one great thing you said was Mario Sperry , probly the most techniquely gifted grappler that ever lived , any one who has not seen sperry fight please do so. And yes get all his instructional tapes as well because they are the best on the market for jiu jitsu.

To the guy who metioned shamrock being the first wite man to beat the asian fighters or some rubbish to that effect, Shamrock was totally dominated by both Bart Vale and Bas Rutten in Pancrase in japan and they were both also there before him.
A point of interest Shamrock can no longer refer to his style as shootfighting because Bart Vale has won a court decision to exclusively own the name shootfighting, so now only his school can be legally called shootfighting.


Fuck it I am too tired ....to be continued

 

[p0ink]

Re: omg

The gracies did not in any way shape or form invent a style of fighting , they took ju jitsu from japan and made some MINOR changes in the grand scheme of the style and then put their name on it , all the techniques they use were around a long time before them and will continue to be around a long time after their all dead and buried. To try to claim any credit for ju jitsu teckniques is just ridiculous. The gracies were responsable and useful for only one thing , and that is having brought NHB style fighting to mainstream america.

pOink - Most of what you said was downright uneducated stupidity ....sorry I cant put it any other way. The gracies happened to be the first to latch onto an american pvp event nothing more ..now they are regualrly dominated in both NHB and jiu jitsu competition. I will send you copies of ever fight they ever had at an event if you would like. Royce was thoroughly domnited by sakuraba in NHB and by wallid ismael in jiu jitsu competition . The one great thing you said was Mario Sperry , probly the most techniquely gifted grappler that ever lived , any one who has not seen sperry fight please do so. And yes get all his instructional tapes as well because they are the best on the market for jiu jitsu.

So you think there are only MINOR changes from JJJ and BJJ? I dont think so man. JJJ is much more stand up oriented than bjj from what I have seen. So you dont think the gracies did much for BJJ? You dont see much of a difference between the two sides of the family...those who have learned from Carlos' side of the family and Helios? Carlos' side stuck more to the traditional JJJ and Helio (because of his size) helped modify the art to make it work for people like him. I dont see how you cant give credit to where credit is due my man.

I never said the gracie's were the best fighters...I'm well aware of who sakuraba (the gracie hunter is), all i said was that they were the driving force in bjj, and they should get respect where respect is due. There are many fighters better than the gracies, and on top of that, i'm really not the biggest gracie fan because of their attitudes of them being the 'absolute best' and all that shit.

What is your current belt rank and who are you currently training under? I was training under Amal Easton and Jack Jay until I had to leave colorado, but I'm back at it here in NC. Oh yeah, what series of the sperry tapes do you have? I have series 1 and am going to get series 2. Have you checked out series 3 yet? what other tape series are you down with? Pedro Carvalho's tapes any good?

 

[the nature boy]

Pride rocks. Seems like Pride has most of the good fighters now days. Would love to see the UFC returned to the old days when you had 3 fights in one night.

Pride fighting is really kick ass. There's no pre fight hype, they just cut to the action. It makes it a litte hard however when me and my buddies are trying to bet money on guys we've never heard of. I almost bet on the japanese wrestler with the funny hair that got his ass beat by the 7 foot tall guy.

 

[Luca Brasi]

Considering I have taught and trained BJJ for 7 years and traditional ju jitsu before that I think I'd have a pretty bloody good idea of the differences. Just because in general japanese ju jitsu fighters like to grapple standing does'nt mean that all the ground fighting techniques were'nt there years before the gracies ...they just chose not to make them the majority of their fighting style as the gracies did , or actually as brazilians did because the gracies are just a piss drop in the ocean as far as brazilian ju jitsu goes anyways. Basically the gracies just chose to prioritise the ground fighting aspects of ju jitsu and thats it ....so basically their credited with what ? being really selective what techniques they stole ? woooow what a bunch of heros lol
that like dan severn being the first UFC greco roman wrestler claiming he made those techniques up . And to make every gracie fan here's argument that much more idiotic Helio Gracie has and will openly admit he learnt the stytle from japan. By the way I have met the man twice.

Luca

 

[Luca Brasi]

Yo pOink drop me a PM bro maybe we can trade some tapes as well I have about 500+ of events and traiing tapes ...might even be able to throw some rare shit your way that I got from bara gracie in brazil. By the way I also like Joe Moreira's tapes .
Going off Jiu Jitsu Mark Kerrs and Dan Gables were good too.
I thought Marco Ruas tapes were pretty average though .

For the bro betting on prides the week before the next pride bro I'll PM you some good tips so you'll never lose

Luca

 

[tomlays]

Re: omg

To the guy who metioned shamrock being the first wite man to beat the asian fighters or some rubbish to that effect, Shamrock was totally dominated by both Bart Vale and Bas Rutten in Pancrase in japan and they were both also there before him.
A point of interest Shamrock can no longer refer to his style as shootfighting because Bart Vale has won a court decision to exclusively own the name shootfighting, so now only his school can be legally called shootfighting.

What the f..! Shamrock has kicked Bas Rutten'S ass so many times in the past. Where do you live?! oh, that'S right Italy...

 

[Luca Brasi]

No actually I dont live in italy ...if only all our profiles were true eh ....... and yes if you even bothered to look it up before opening your mouth you'd know that in bas rutten was 3 times king of pancrase and won by far the majority of his fights with shamrock ...matter of fact I watched one of my old pancrase tapes last night where bas rutten nearly took shamrocks ugly head off with a open hand strike.

 

[ZenMachine]

The Vale - Shamrock fight is widely known to have been a work. Vale rarely competed in real NHB competition.

The sport of NHB has evolved over the years and no pure stylists can dominate like they did in years past. The key now is cross training.

Zen

 

[PaleHorse]

Frank Shamrock is the Ultimate Fighter! I'm looking forward to his return. The reason I believe most don't like the Gracies is their ludicrous demands ( 30 minute time limits, 5 round contests, and appearance fees). For shear savagery, check out The IVC outta Brazil. Pure bloodbaths. One of the bloodiest fights I've ever seen was Vanderlai Silva and Arthur Mariano in Ivc 2. Awesome fight.

 

[BIG DONNIE BRASCO]

Frank Shamrock is the Ultimate Fighter!

Two words.....one name.....

RICKSON GRACIE !!!

I'll bet just about anything that this guy is VIRTUALY unbeatable!!

D

 

[ZenMachine]

Two words.....one name.....

RICKSON GRACIE !!!

I'll bet just about anything that this guy is VIRTUALY unbeatable!!

D

Although I think we may have had this discussion before, I will wade in.

Rickson is a great technical BJJ player. And a pretty solid NHB'er but "Virtually Unbeatable"? Perhaps, if he continues to fight pro wrestlers, but against today's Mixed Martial artists, I would say he would definitely end up with a blemish on his record.

He has limited stand up and mediocre takedowns. I could certainly see a top wrestler taking him down for the lay and pray victory.

Zen

 

[PaleHorse]

Although I think we may have had this discussion before, I will wade in.

Rickson is a great technical BJJ player. And a pretty solid NHB'er but "Virtually Unbeatable"? Perhaps, if he continues to fight pro wrestlers, but against today's Mixed Martial artists, I would say he would definitely end up with a blemish on his record.

He has limited stand up and mediocre takedowns. I could certainly see a top wrestler taking him down for the lay and pray victory.

Zen

Your namesake (Mario Sperry) for one would beat Rickson. As would several others. this is why he fights whom he does (Takada, funaki) and other relics.

 

[BIG DONNIE BRASCO]

I could certainly see a top wrestler taking him down for the lay and pray victory.

NO WAY DUDE.....YOU ARE SO WRONG!!!

just kidding, everyone has their favorites.
I've just seen him fight in person several times, and had the chance to "roll" with him a few times. And I've always been very impressed.
But by the same token, I ate breakfast with Mark Kerr 2 weeks ago, and that boy is SCARY in person!

I assume by your name you are a Mario Sperry fan. So am I

D

 

[ZenMachine]

NO WAY DUDE.....YOU ARE SO WRONG!!!

just kidding, everyone has their favorites.
I've just seen him fight in person several times, and had the chance to "roll" with him a few times. And I've always been very impressed.
But by the same token, I ate breakfast with Mark Kerr 2 weeks ago, and that boy is SCARY in person!

I assume by your name you are a Mario Sperry fan. So am I

D

I always thought Mario had the smoothest ground technique of anyone that I had ever seen. Amazing. I have his first tape series, absolutely the best tapes at the time (Takedowns lacked, but otherwise great).

I don't dislike Rickson, in fact when I first started to get into this UFC stuff, I saw him in the 94 Japan Vale Tudo and he looked like a pissed off Royce on steriods. Unbelievable. No one wanted to trade with him because they were scared of ending up on the ground and getting the crap pounded out of them. I thought Dave Leveki was going go cry from that knee to that back. I just don't think he can hang with the elite any more.

Zen

 

[BackDoc]

I'm interested in finding out what happened in the Sperry-Zinoviev fight. I was shocked to see him lose. I couldn't tell from the replay whether or not he was officially tapping. It didn't look that way to me.

Did Zinoviev get lucky? I would have bet anything on Sperry, as I would if there were a rematch.

 

[ZenMachine]

I'm interested in finding out what happened in the Sperry-Zinoviev fight. I was shocked to see him lose. I couldn't tell from the replay whether or not he was officially tapping. It didn't look that way to me.

Did Zinoviev get lucky? I would have bet anything on Sperry, as I would if there were a rematch.

Personally I don't think he tapped, it looked like he was wiping the blood off to me. I think he claims to not have tapped. He did make a huge mistake in that fight by trying to jump on Igor's back like that.

I think that fight, under today's rules and regs would have been stopped from the cut, so he would have lost either way.

I think in 95% of the rematches Mario wins.

Igor is currently bouncing at Score in NY from what I understand.

Zen