True case happened to someone who worked out at my gym

[Rick Collins]

I'm not only "leery of giving advice on how to break the law", but I simply don't do it. No lawyer can. Hmmm. You may not understand what my book is about. Actually, I think you'd like it. Yes, parts of it are cautionary, and much is very practical (and easy to read). Look, most people have some general notions of what could happen if stopped for speeding. A cop, like anyone else, can be a sociopath. But that's not what I'm talking about. Very few people, including cops and lawyers, have more than vague ideas about what the laws say about steroids, how they are defined, the severity of different types of conduct or what punishments may be imposed. Few understand how law enforcers investigate crimes, particularly mail seizures. People should go into things with their eyes open, as fully informed as possible, don't you agree? I tried to provide the specifics in LEGAL MUSCLE to allow people to do this, at both state and federal levels. I have no incentive to scare the bejesus out of people. (Cynics might say I have the financial incentive to do just the opposite!) Much of the book debunks and condemns traditional "scare tactics." Please don't take this as a boast, but as far as I can decipher, nobody with a law degree has seen more steroid cases than I have. Including in LEGAL MUSCLE some of the horror stories was EXACTLY what I needed to do in order to support the central tenet of my work: that our societal approach to cosmetic steroid use is flawed, failing and in need of reform, both at the criminal justice and medical ethics levels.

 

[liftshard]

Listen, Rick, when you say "when you are speeding, here's how you avoid paying the fine," you are counseling people on how to break the law and not pay for it. When your promo talks about "what to do about a Customs siezure letter for the illegal drugs you purchased by mail order," it is counseling people on how to break the law. It's THEIR order, man. They have broken the law - that part is stipulated - and now, it's what do I do to "keep your butt out of trouble."

I can give you a dissertation on a lot of ways to speed without getting caught. No bar is going to bring me up on ethics charges for that. As for whether attorneys can counsel on how to evade prosecution, dude...I'm in on the joke ok? It's all strictly hypothetical. You're not SUGGESTING anyone breaks the law or recommending that anyone breaks the law, and I'm sure you have a disclaimer right up front that says "I recommend that you DO NOT USE STEROIDS" but c'mon now, man.

No, I haven't read your book and don't plan to. If it's a clinical dissertation on mail siezure protocols, then fine, I have misjudged it, but I did so based upon the promotional quotes that YOU have released. If the perception I have of it, which again I think you misapprehend as negative, is flawed, then it is because of this, not because I am getting it all wrong when it's quoted about whether not placing a signature for your package of illegal drugs is exculpatory.

I think we both agree that the drug laws, some of them at least, are retarded in this country and that the whole system is effed up in a big way. As far as dispensing advice, though, there's a difference between counseling lawbreakers on how to mitigate punishment for lawbreaking and openly recommending that people break the law. I am not suggesting that you are doing the latter, ok? The former is your JOB as a criminal defense attorney and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

 

[[email protected]]

This is why I want to know more about how wire taps and surveillances are initated and how cops can rely on 1 person to get this surveillance started.

From what I understand there are not that many wiretaps issued. Second, the informant must pass the two prong test. I don’t see how she could have done this?

Rick any thoughts on this?

 

[ROID WARRIOR]

"Listen, Rick, when you say "when you are speeding, here's how you avoid paying the fine," you are counseling people on how to break the law and not pay for it."

This is a very distorted perception of the legal system. By your logic, the entire practice of law cosnsists of no more than counseling clients on how to avoid civil or criminal liability. Avoiding or mitigating paying the traffic fine comes after the act of speeding or DWAI. If there are deficiencies in the People's case, or abuses by police or presecutors, it is defense counsels' obligation as a zelaous advocate to exploit them.

When your promo talks about "what to do about a Customs siezure letter for the illegal drugs you purchased by mail order," it is counseling people on how to break the law.

Absolutely incorrect. Presumably this individual has already violated the law, counsel is only advising and representing their rights at that point. If you don't like the Sixth Amendment right to assistance of counsel, write to your legislators and suggest a constitutional amendment.

"It's THEIR order, man. They have broken the law - that part is stipulated -"

Nothing is stipulted and we're not conceding anything, we require that the People prove their case beyond a reasonsble doubt.

"No, I haven't read your book and don't plan to."

That's self-evident; as trite as it may sound, you're judging a book by its cover. The book is not a crude "how to" manual. You really should read it before doing this disservice. All chapters have been peer reviewed by other esteemed experts in their field of specialization.


"As far as dispensing advice, though, there's a difference between counseling lawbreakers on how to mitigate punishment for lawbreaking and openly recommending that people break the law. I am not suggesting that you are doing the latter, ok? The former is your JOB as a criminal defense attorney and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it."

Thanks, we'll all sleep better tonight knowing that we have your approval.

RW

 

[liftshard]

RW, why you gotta be so pissy? I wasn't even talking to you.

BTW, YES, the entire criminal defense legal profession consists of no more than counseling clients on how to avoid or mitigate criminal liability, even if guilty. So what?

The rest of your post is a Pavlovian response to the above; you are imputing some kind of value judgment in my statements, when I have made none. I merely stated fact.

And, here we go with "doing the book disservice." The book can sell itself w/o your help, dude. #1, I haven't said one bad thing about it.

Why you continually try to escalate this crap into interpersonal stuff is surprising. Stick to the facts, counselor...it cannot be THIS easy to get under your skin.

 

[Dr. JK]

What is a 2 prong test?

 

[Ironlifter]

Liftshard,

I'm with you and totally agree that all that "not telling you how to break the law..." BS is a complete joke but you need to realize that the motivating factor is behind 99% of laws, criminal defense attorneys, DAs, and everything else in the country is...

$$$$$$$

Other than violent crimes against person, which there is a true "victim" in the matter, the entire system is about money.

Say for example you are selling drugs and making a ton of money tax free...guess what? Nothing is free and nobody is going to let someone come into their house and get rich without getting a cut.

Why do people pay Johnny Cochran so much money to get them off charges? Because they are guilty as hell and need someone who can keep their ass free when according to the law, or the rules here in the US, they deserve to be imprisoned.

Never get cocky and forget that the same bullshit laws that we think we are so smooth to exploit and get away with are the same ones that we bitch about being so unjust and unfair.

Its all a game, so know the rules, get a good attorney, but remember that if they want you, they can get you and even if at the end you have enough cash to be found "innocent", going on the ride to establish that sucks and you would much rather never go for it in the first place.