Trenbolone: PR agonization or ER agonization?

[Andy13]

Any thoughts on this? The first ring on the trenbolone molecule is planar, like estrogens. This compound does not aromatise however somewhat resembles an estrogen. THis leads me to think that perhaps tren may not be a PR agonizer but a weak ER agonizer.

Anyone use trenbolone by itself and expirience itchy nips that went away with winstrol use (that's winstrol use NOT decreased tren use)?

How about TA and tamoxofin? If TA is a weak agonizer of the ER, I wonder if it would function almost as an estrogen blocker in a cycle with dbol or test....

lets hear your open minded thoughts. I realize everyone "knows" that TA is a PR agonist... But then again, everyone used to "know" that anadrol and deca aromatise, that methandriol dipropionate opens up receptors and that (my favorite) sustanon binds 4 different androgen receptors.

Andy

 

[Andy13]

 

[panerai]

Sound iteresting, but the fact that Trenbolone has slightly higher affinity to progesteron receptor then progesteron itself, makes me think, that i'm close minded

 

[Scotsman]

Andy13

Is there a possible secondary effect once the acetate breaks down that can effect the planar bonding to the receptor site?

Great idea though will see what I can come up with since I never even noticed the itchy nips reaction so have never had to mediate with winny.

 

[CYCLEON]

in any case it must be quite weak as I have never seen or heard of any one getting progesterone or estrogen gyno from fina use alone.

 

[CYCLEON]

BTW: Quit asking all these hypothetical mumbo jumbo questions and get over and answer my thread at - http://209.11.101.244/forum/showthread.php?threadid=33847

 

[Andy13]

Andy13

Is there a possible secondary effect once the acetate breaks down that can effect the planar bonding to the receptor site?

Great idea though will see what I can come up with since I never even noticed the itchy nips reaction so have never had to mediate with winny.

Actually, until the ester is removed, the steroid doesnt bind any receptor at all. And the ester is attached waaaaaay out on carbon #17... The planar ring is the first ring, the opposite end of the molecule.

Andy

 

[Fonz]

Interesting question, but I'd have to ommit ER
agonization based on its effects on people
that use it.

Fact is: Tren burns fat very well.

Estrogenic based steroids aren't as efficient
as progestenic-based at burning fat, due to the
fact that progesterone increases glucose
oxidation, and ultimately more fat is used
for fuel.
Estrogen on the other hand decreases glucose oxidation.
Estrogen is VERY LIPOGENIC, while progesterone
is VERY LYPOLITIC.

Just compare: Tren vs Test/EQ/Dball

Test is probably the premier ER agonist, yet you lose
WAY more fat on Tren.
Also, Tren is more androgenic than Test. If tren were
truly an ERagonist A LOT of people would get gyno
from it. Which is just not the case. With test however,
A LOT of people do.

My own little theory regarding Tren is the following:

I think Tren somehow cross-reacts with the progesterone
receptor and the end result is an increase in
blood levels of simple progestins.
This is exactly what happens with EQ. It only aromatizes
to a simple estrogen.(If you where to use
an analogy)
Nandrolone and test however, aromatize into
estrogen and progesterone.

This is just a comparison.(Please assume they
are used by themselves)

1. Test-aromatizes into estrogen.
Lipogenic NOT lypolytic.
No increase in vascularity

#EQ aromatizes into a simple estrogen.
No real impact on fat loss/gain
Increases vascularity

2. Nandrolone converts to progesterone.
Lypolitic
No real increase in vascularity either.

#Trenbolone converts to a simple progestin.
VERY lypolytic
Increases vascularity

Do you see a resemblance?

Godspeed

 

[Andy13]

Fonz- I respectfully see numerous flaws in your reasoning


Interesting question, but I'd have to ommit ER
agonization based on its effects on people
that use it.

Fact is: Tren burns fat very well.

Estrogenic based steroids aren't as efficient
as progestenic-based at burning fat, due to the
fact that progesterone increases glucose
oxidation, and ultimately more fat is used
for fuel.
Estrogen on the other hand decreases glucose oxidation.
Estrogen is VERY LIPOGENIC, while progesterone
is VERY LYPOLITIC.

Just compare: Tren vs Test/EQ/Dball

Test is probably the premier ER agonist, yet you lose
WAY more fat on Tren. I assume you mean testosterone, once converted to estrogen is an ER agonist; test has little affinity for the ER unless aromatized.

Also, Tren is more androgenic than Test. If tren were
truly an ERagonist A LOT of people would get gyno
from it. Which is just not the case. With test however,
A LOT of people do.I didn't say that tren was an outstanding ER agonist, I simply said it has a planar first ring. All estrogens have this. When testosterone is aromatized, it's first ring becomes planar since all the carbon atoms are now Sp2 hybridized.

My own little theory regarding Tren is the following:

I think Tren somehow cross-reacts with the progesterone
receptor and the end result is an increase in
blood levels of simple progestins.
This is exactly what happens with EQ. It only aromatizes
to a simple estrogen.(If you where to use
an analogy)
Nandrolone and test however, aromatize into
estrogen and progesterone.
Dont take this the wrong way, but what you just said is an example of chemical illiteracy. Do you know what aromatise means? It means (chemically) that the ring becomes aromatic, with alternating double bonds. Estrogen has an aromatic first ring. Progesterone does not. To say that something "aromatises into progesterone" is an erronious statement since progesterone does not have an aromatic first ring.

This is just a comparison.(Please assume they
are used by themselves)

1. Test-aromatizes into estrogen.
Lipogenic NOT lypolytic.
No increase in vascularity

#EQ aromatizes into a simple estrogen.
No real impact on fat loss/gain
Increases vascularity

2. Nandrolone converts to progesterone.
Lypolitic
No real increase in vascularity either.Here we go again. Nandrolone DOES NOT CONVERT to progesterone. Do you know anything about steroid synthesis? It is mostly one way... progesterone is hydroxylated and then it's 20 and 21 carbon atoms are cleaved to yield androstendione. To say that an androgen can convert back to a progestin is preposterous.

#Trenbolone converts to a simple progestin.
VERY lypolytic
Increases vascularity
ONce again, an androgen CANNOT convert into a progestin. Besides, I think comparing bodyfat loss (especially when you measure it with a mirror) and whether or not a steroid agonizes certain receptors is an irrational comparison......

next?

Andy

 

[CYCLEON]

ahhhhh........ Andy13 - my nominee for the Elite "how to win friends and influence people" award. - but all for the beter understanding of the game!