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T'ren - A Q&A writeup!
- Thread starter khemix
- Start date
Cryptlord said:
You know bro, I knew it was either estrogen or prolactin. I know that they contribute tren gyno to prolactin buildup, which is why sometimes Letrozole/Adex doesn't do a thing.
I'll continue to dig and see if I can find that report. It was one I didn't save.
Cryptlord
New member
Info on the B6.khemix said:
Very good read.
Originally posted on AR by Pheedno.
Suppression of Lactation:
When the mother chooses not to breast feed or the baby is lost, suppression of lactation may be required. Initially the breasts get engorged, however in the absence of suckling further milk production stops on its own. Firm support to the breasts is helpful in reducing the discomfort. Manual expression is not very helpful as it promotes further milk secretion. Estrogens in high doses can suppress lactation, however there are side effects and the risk of venous thrombosis, hence these are not recommended. Bromocryptine, a dopamine agonist, given 2.5 mg twice a day for 14 days can suppress lactation by producing a fall in prolactin levels. This therapy is expensive, has side effects and there may be rebound lactation once the drug is stopped. FDA no longer approves it. Pyridoxine – Vitamin B6, given 200 mg three times a day for 5-7 days is quite effective in suppressing lactation and the drug has no side effects.
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Got Wood? note : adding Bromo to your cycle only adds to the potential anabolic cascade, and potentially negative drug interactions. In medicine B6 is supposed to be as effective as Bromo. Plus vitamin B6 has few side effects.
Here are a few of many studies supporting the use of Vitamin B6 in reducing prolactin:
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J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1976 Mar;42(3):603-6
Effect of pyridoxine on human hypophyseal trophic hormone release: a possible stimulation of hypothalamic dopaminergic pathway.
Delitala G, Masala A, Alagna S, Devilla L.
A single dose of pyridoxine (300 mg iv) produced significant rises in peak levels of immunoreactive growth hormone GH and significant decrease of plasma prolactin PRL in 8 hospitalized healthy subjects. Serum glucose, luteinizing hormone LH, follicle stimulating hormone FSH and thyrotropin TSH were not altered significantly. In addition, in 5 acromegalic patients who were studied with both L-dopa and pyridoxine, inhibition of GH secretion followed either agent in a similar pattern. These data suggest a hypothalamic dopaminergic effect of pyridoxine.
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N Engl J Med 1982 Aug 12;307(7):444-5
Pyridoxine (B6) suppresses the rise in prolactin and increases the rise in growth hormone induced by exercise.
Moretti C, Fabbri A, Gnessi L, Bonifacio V, Fraioli F, Isidori A.
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Boll Soc Ital Biol Sper 1984 Feb 28;60(2):273-8
[Influence of administration of pyridoxine on circadian rhythm of plasma ACTH, cortisol prolactin and somatotropin in normal subjects]
[Article in Italian]
Barletta C, Sellini M, Bartoli A, Bigi C, Buzzetti R, Giovannini C.
The influence of vitamin B6 in a dosage of 300 mg X 2 in 24 hrs, on circadian rhythm of plasmatic ACTH, cortisol, prolactin and somatotropin have been studied in 10 normal women. After vitamin B6 24 hrs pattern of ACTH and cortisol is unchanged; prolactin levels are slightly lower, in a statistically unsignificant proportion the night peak of growth hormone is higher in a statistically significant proportion (p. 0.05). The effect of vitamin B6 is likely to me mediated by dopaminergic receptors at hypothalamic level as previous studies by other Authors appear to prove.
JoeDiNero said:
Theres been a LOT of debate on this subject. Some say that trenbolone aggrivates the increase in estrogen, making it worse, thus causing estrogen-induced gynecomastia. (I believe that this is whats happening to me. On test only I had very light traces of gynecomastia, which went away post cycle. When I added trenbolone to the mix, it became a bit more of a problem.)
Others say that its the progesterone and/or prolactin build up, causing progesterone-induced gynecomastia. Which sometimes isn't even gynecomastia, its just puffy and the gland swells. Progesterone-induced gynecomastia has never been proven to even exist in any study.
Thats probably the biggest issue with trenbolone at the moment. We can't distinguish what is causing the gynecomastia. I believe that its a mixture of all of the above. The only way to REALLY know what will work for you: Trial and error.
I am a firm believer in 'if you dont need it, dont take it' attitude concerning ancillaries. How are you going to know if gynecomastia will be a problem if you've always ran letrozole or dostinex with your cycle? Keep it on hand, but dont throw ancillaries in there unless you KNOW you need them.
My first cycle I ran test/dbol. Gyno started and i started taking nolvadex. In a few weeks it was gone, but the nolvadex hindered my gains.
With that being said, all you guys that have always ran AI's with your cycle...how do you know they're not hindering your gains? Damn, this should be a whole new thread right here lol.
Cryptlord
New member
The use of Winstrol is also an effective method of controlling progesterone-induced gyno, as it is anti-progestagenic. An effective dose appears to be in the vicinity of 50mg eod (depot) or 30 to 35mg/day (tabs) although this dose may require increasing depending on the doses being employed in the stack.
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