Too Young To Juice ?

[lil-swole]

I've noticed there is quite a range of opinions concerning this issue. Some feel that it is okay to start using AAS as soon as you're done growing (as in height), and others feel you should wait until you are at least 25, although most seem to feel 21 is the magical age.

If one is done growing (as in height), has a sound physical foundation along with knowledge of his body and proper diet and training regimens, and has matured sufficienty mentally and emotionally, then shouldn't that be all that matters, and shouldn't age really not be much of a factor?

I would like opinions here regarding this issue.

 

[al420]

No - b/c when you are doning growing taller you are far from done growing - the final growth plate is in your throat I think.

21 is a good idea - I can tell a pre-21 juicer everytime I see them - it is a bad idea.

 

[glover]

No - b/c when you are doning growing taller you are far from done growing - the final growth plate is in your throat I think.

21 is a good idea - I can tell a pre-21 juicer everytime I see them - it is a bad idea.

How can you tell?

 

[Sweetsrcool]

actually the age would be different with everyone, some grow till there 25 some are don growing at 19, it depends on body type so you can justify it on that (my opinion) I think you should do it when you feel ready and I think you should at least wait till 19 or 20 but shit arnold had no probs and many others that started at like 17, 18.

 

[blut wump]

How can you tell?

acromegaly - the head looks wrong, mostly.

 

[lil-swole]

actually the age would be different with everyone, some grow till there 25 some are don growing at 19, it depends on body type so you can justify it on that (my opinion) I think you should do it when you feel ready and I think you should at least wait till 19 or 20 but shit arnold had no probs and many others that started at like 17, 18.

I think virtually everyone agrees you should be done growing (as in growth plates not still open) - it's a pretty simple proceedure to check to see if your growth plates are still open or not - you go get an x-ray of your knee or hip and the doctor (can't remember what specialty) can tell you (I know cuz I had mine checked when I was 17 - unfortunately for my 5'6 ass they were closed )

So al420, you are effectively saying if you are 20.5 years of age then you are absolutely too young, no questions asked?

 

[TM248]

you think arnold's head looks wrong? he was juicing at age 16.. you can see pictures of when he was 18 going into the army and he was almost the same size as he was when he won olympia in the mid 70's

just my opinion, it think it depends on everyone's own body...no age can be set

 

[lil-swole]

just my opinion, it think it depends on everyone's own body...no age can be set

I agree completely. I think as long as you know what you're doing and your growth plates are no longer open, then you're good to go if you decide that's what you want to do.

I don't see why one would benefit more by waiting until they were an age such as 25 except for increased experience and exposure to the bodybuilding arena - but IMO I would say a 20 year old that has been dedicated to bodybuilding for 4 years would be more prepared than a 28 year old that has only been doing it for 2 years.

 

[al420]

but IMO I would say a 20 year old that has been dedicated to bodybuilding for 4 years would be more prepared than a 28 year old that has only been doing it for 2 years.

The opinion of a teenager.....

I don't have time right now to go into the depth of why that is incorrect - but I can simply tell you that there are WAY more variables than training experience and age when the age of the user is sub 21 yrs.

This is not IMO - it is fact.

 

[lil-swole]

Well when you do have time, would you mind posting some of that info, because I truly am curious (and more than just the throat growth plate thing)...

And I am not a teenager btw, even if you feel my opinion had the quality of one.

 

[billdance]

Shit if I were back at age 18...and knew I would only have grown to 5'9...I wold have jumped on some HGH.......

How tall are you?

 

[lil-swole]

Shit if I were back at age 18...and knew I would only have grown to 5'9...I wold have jumped on some HGH.......

How tall are you?

I am 5'6. HGH will do you no good is attaining a higher stature if your growth plates are already closed, unfortunately.

 

[sardonicone]

I've noticed there is quite a range of opinions concerning this issue. Some feel that it is okay to start using AAS as soon as you're done growing (as in height), and others feel you should wait until you are at least 25, although most seem to feel 21 is the magical age.

If one is done growing (as in height), has a sound physical foundation along with knowledge of his body and proper diet and training regimens, and has matured sufficienty mentally and emotionally, then shouldn't that be all that matters, and shouldn't age really not be much of a factor?

I would like opinions here regarding this issue.

25 is usually when you completely stop growing in height. Your bodies growth plates don't fuse until then.

 

[lil-swole]

25 is usually when you completely stop growing in height. Your bodies growth plates don't fuse until then.

This is not true for the vast majority of people. Most people stop growing in height well before they turn 21.

People's growth plates close usually between the ages of 16 - 21, and probably over 75% of the time it's between 17-20. I'd say very rarely does one get taller after they turn 21.

 

[sardonicone]

This is not true for the vast majority of people. Most people stop growing in height well before they turn 21.

Growth plates don't fuse until 25. Whether or not you percieve any height gains is a different matter.

 

[lil-swole]

Growth plates don't fuse until 25. Whether or not you percieve any height gains is a different matter.

So your saying that growth plates do not fust until one is 25 and therefore one is ill-advised to use steroids until they are 25? I mean, I thought that someone's bones would not grow vertically after one has already reached maximum height (growth plates I would think allow for vertical growth of the bones). I can see how one's bones could become denser after turning 21 [doesn't resistance training make your bones denser, or does it?], but they can do this whether or not the growth plates are fused I would think (I'm really not an expert of this so I don't want to come across all like I know this and that for a fact when I don't [hence why I posted in the first place]- I think I have a pretty good idea though based on what I do know and my ability to reason).

But please keep up the debate.
I would like someone who maybe has a better understand to put in their 2 cents (and not the people who don't understand but think they know everything and whatever they say is right and never wrong because they're infallible god-men).

 

[airsmith2k]

i started when i was 19 and if i knew anythin about juice i would of started in high school lol......i remember when i was in high school no one even really every talked about juice cause nobody knew anythin about it....now ur hearin high school kids doin it all the time....i guess it all started cause of major league baseball.....know everyone wants to do it young and old

 

[Cauliflower Ear]

I agree completely. I think as long as you know what you're doing and your growth plates are no longer open, then you're good to go if you decide that's what you want to do.

I don't see why one would benefit more by waiting until they were an age such as 25 except for increased experience and exposure to the bodybuilding arena - but IMO I would say a 20 year old that has been dedicated to bodybuilding for 4 years would be more prepared than a 28 year old that has only been doing it for 2 years.

yes bro, you might know how to set up a workout program, you might know something about diet...but at 28 years old...his body can handle it...i too have seen lots of ackygomy amoung football friends from high school

 

[Nelson Montana]

19-24 is the prime growth time. I hate to see it wasted by using aids you don't yet need -- especially with the advances in supplementation these days.

UNLEASHED/BIG BLAST/LOTS OF FOOD/LOTS OF LIFTING

Do that until you can't grow anymore...THEN, look into juicin.

 

[jochensa]

i think the key here is that everyone is diff. i am the tallest in my fam and started taking small cycles when i was 19. by small i mean one compound which at the time was a big deal. only due to $$ and ignorance. who knows what would have happened if i was taking crazy cycles like now. back then i looked at test wrong and i got acne bad, now a few pimples on 750mgs a week. i have noticed that my feet have grown since i was in my teens from 10.5 to 12.5.

there alot of factors that relate to growth in stature. my buddy is the shortest in his fam and it was due to a pytuitary disease. i do think the whole acromegly and stunting of growth from aas is bs. GH levels control all that. and i have seen alot of guys on aas get taller after using. so it is really not a factor. we do put plenty of young ladies on the pill without blinking an eye just for safe sex?????????

 

[Roc86]

Most people are structurally done growing long before 21 ...

However as a 17 year old @ 6'1 and a 20 year old @ 6'1 there will be a big difference in thickness, hairyness, masculinization of face and jaw etc.

My cousin started juicing @ 16, and has looked exactly the same ever since now @ 20.
Same height, weight, always sick, etc ...

Almost all the big boys around here concede that a mature (physically and mentally) 21 year old thats close to their genetic potential is the prime time to start.

 

[no1_brawler]

It makes absolutely NO different when you start as long as you know what you need to know. Starting at a later age wont make Juice an safer. Its all the same shit, well only factor is the height thingy but ive seen many guys grow taller after juice. Why wait until you hit your "genetic limit".(a word used to loosely, who knows what their limit is really) Juice is just a fast forward button on your gains, whats wrong with that whatever age you are.

 

[lil-swole]

It makes absolutely NO different when you start as long as you know what you need to know. Starting at a later age wont make Juice an safer. Its all the same shit, well only factor is the height thingy but ive seen many guys grow taller after juice. Why wait until you hit your "genetic limit".(a word used to loosely, who knows what their limit is really) Juice is just a fast forward button on your gains, whats wrong with that whatever age you are.

You know, I agree with a lot of that. I think the main thing one gets by being close to their 'genetic pontential' is that it ensures experience with training and diet, and healthy joints (since it is possible to hurt yourself if you get too strong too fast and don't have the joints to support it) - other than that, not a whole lot I would say.

I hear people dishing out that one needs to be this age because they are not growing. Does anyone have any studys to back that up? I've yet to see ONE, let alone one that is really prevalent. I think young men can take advantage of their naturally high test levels because they will get the experience they need to take advantage of the juice, and since their natty test levels are already high, there is no need to take all the risks when you are already getting a lot of the benefits; however, not all young men have high test levels - I can say with relative certainly that there are lots of men well into their 30's who have higher natty test levels than young men who just turned 20, so again it's not the same for everyone. But what it comes down to for the most part is knowledge of training and diet, not to mention the juice itself. I agree that it is stupid for one to take the risks when you can't even take advantage of the benefits yet, but the risks are the same for everyone - I disagree that a 20 year old has more risks because of this rumor that their growth plates are not done growing yet; they may be more at risk because their not as mature and don't have as much knowledge, however, I can see that.

 

[NickyE3]

im waiting till im 23-24

 

[jimmy04]

no1 brawler-(It makes absolutely NO different when you start as long as you know what you need to know. Starting at a later age wont make Juice an safer. Its all the same shit, well only factor is the height thingy but ive seen many guys grow taller after juice. Why wait until you hit your "genetic limit".(a word used to loosely, who knows what their limit is really) Juice is just a fast forward button on your gains, whats wrong with that whatever age you are.) I agree fully

 

[blut wump]

As far as I'm aware, there have been no studies done on the effects of administering exogenous hormones to normal, healthy, immature males. I also doubt that there ever will be for all of the obvious reasons.

This leaves us with thought experiments and anecdotal evidence. Many of us know someone who juiced early and looks freaky in the head. We also know guys who juiced early, were utterly devoted to their lifting and look completely normal and about as large as expected, all considered.

As such, I think that anyone who does choose to juice early is simply rolling the dice. Nobody seriously disputes the premature growth-plate closure from high oestrogen levels. If you decide that you've stopped growing then you might discount that side-effect but the possible effects on a still-maturing endocrine system are anyone's guess.

As a matter of simply being sensible with a possibly long future, I'd suggest to anyone young that they wait unless that have a pressing reason not to. If someone has a shot at being a superstar then they have to balance the potential gain against the possible harm to their health. I'd suggest they ask themselves why they want to get on the sauce and roll the dice with their health. What do they have to gain for themselves by jumping on early?

If there are consequences to disturbing a still-maturing body then you're going to have to live with them for a very long time. One other thing I've noticed from guys who started early is that they have a lot of trouble being off the sauce; they don't feel normal when they are off and can't wait to get back on again. Guys who start later seem to be troubled much less by this.

Note also that your brain is still maturing into your 20s. I recall seeing studies relating to adrogens and brain function. Someone might care to Google or scoot around PubMed.

 

[muscleup]

and I also agree with this as well...good advice.

19-24 is the prime growth time. I hate to see it wasted by using aids you don't yet need -- especially with the advances in supplementation these days.

UNLEASHED/BIG BLAST/LOTS OF FOOD/LOTS OF LIFTING

Do that until you can't grow anymore...THEN, look into juicin.

 

[lil-swole]

As far as I'm aware, there have been no studies done on the effects of administering exogenous hormones to normal, healthy, immature males. I also doubt that there ever will be for all of the obvious reasons.

This leaves us with thought experiments and anecdotal evidence. Many of us know someone who juiced early and looks freaky in the head. We also know guys who juiced early, were utterly devoted to their lifting and look completely normal and about as large as expected, all considered.

As such, I think that anyone who does choose to juice early is simply rolling the dice. Nobody seriously disputes the premature growth-plate closure from high oestrogen levels. If you decide that you've stopped growing then you might discount that side-effect but the possible effects on a still-maturing endocrine system are anyone's guess.

As a matter of simply being sensible with a possibly long future, I'd suggest to anyone young that they wait unless that have a pressing reason not to. If someone has a shot at being a superstar then they have to balance the potential gain against the possible harm to their health. I'd suggest they ask themselves why they want to get on the sauce and roll the dice with their health. What do they have to gain for themselves by jumping on early?

If there are consequences to disturbing a still-maturing body then you're going to have to live with them for a very long time. One other thing I've noticed from guys who started early is that they have a lot of trouble being off the sauce; they don't feel normal when they are off and can't wait to get back on again. Guys who start later seem to be troubled much less by this.

Note also that your brain is still maturing into your 20s. I recall seeing studies relating to adrogens and brain function. Someone might care to Google or scoot around PubMed.

Very well written blut wump! Thanks for contributing.

 

[B-rad]

I did my first cycle at age 18 and was 6'2
at the time.I am now 26 and im 6'4, I guess aas didn't close my growth plates.

 

[lil-swole]

I did my first cycle at age 18 and was 6'2
at the time.I am now 26 and im 6'4, I guess aas didn't close my growth plates.

Who knows, if it wasn't for the juice, you might have went on to be 7 ft

 

[blut wump]

I understand that oestrogen is the primary culprit with growth-plate closure. If you keep it well under control then the problem should be minimized. Obviously, it's still a risk.

 

[advanced-stealth]

Imo 21

 

[LAN T]

I did my first cycle at age 18 and was 6'2
at the time.I am now 26 and im 6'4, I guess aas didn't close my growth plates.

 

[jochensa]

everyone hates when i post this but....if there ever was a time to hit the sauce it would be when you are riding pine cuz you do not weigh enuff or you are not strong enuff. and have only a few years to play for the rest of your life. alot of guys take the risk and play and dont regret it.

IMO the "natural" advances in supplementation are just as risky...at least for me. IE i get gyno/acne from just stopping lifting and starting again. the right gear has alot of the androgenic properties engineered out, that natural test stimulation does not.

 

[blut wump]

What does "riding pine" mean. That's a new one on me.

 

[GLEN]

I juiced to young, its a mistake...I would say min 21

 

[LAN T]

What does "riding pine" mean. That's a new one on me.

It means he can't make it off the bench, and has to resort to using chemicals so that he can compete with the other players who are naturally more talented athletes than him.

 

[blut wump]

Thanks

 

[al420]

no1 brawler-(It makes absolutely NO different when you start as long as you know what you need to know. Starting at a later age wont make Juice an safer. Its all the same shit, well only factor is the height thingy but ive seen many guys grow taller after juice. Why wait until you hit your "genetic limit".(a word used to loosely, who knows what their limit is really) Juice is just a fast forward button on your gains, whats wrong with that whatever age you are.) I agree fully

This one must be a Dr.

 

[jochensa]

It means he can't make it off the bench, and has to resort to using chemicals so that he can compete with the other players who are naturally more talented athletes than him.

love it naw not more talented either already juiced and are older and more physically developed. that is why i talk about a window of opportunity with younger kids. some kids are full grown in high school. others in thier early 20's.

but anyone who has palyed college sports wink wink. especially D1 will vouch for me in here natural is for oat bran. and why not run a dragster on pump gas while your at it?????

 

[methodx31]

I've noticed there is quite a range of opinions concerning this issue. Some feel that it is okay to start using AAS as soon as you're done growing (as in height), and others feel you should wait until you are at least 25, although most seem to feel 21 is the magical age.

If one is done growing (as in height), has a sound physical foundation along with knowledge of his body and proper diet and training regimens, and has matured sufficienty mentally and emotionally, then shouldn't that be all that matters, and shouldn't age really not be much of a factor?

I would like opinions here regarding this issue.

I believe one should always train naturally for several(2-4) years to build up a solid base musculature. once you feel you've accomplished this there is very little evidence to suggest moderate use of low androgenic/high anabolic substances cause long term health issues. Long story short, if your asking the quesiton than you are probably mature enough to pursue a safe and guided cycle. Be reasonable and go for it. Let us know what you decide.

 

[no1_brawler]

I believe one should always train naturally for several(2-4) years to build up a solid base musculature. once you feel you've accomplished this there is very little evidence to suggest moderate use of low androgenic/high anabolic substances cause long term health issues. Long story short, if your asking the quesiton than you are probably mature enough to pursue a safe and guided cycle. Be reasonable and go for it. Let us know what you decide.

So your saying training for 2-4yrs approxiamatly will minimise risks opposed to not training for a few years beforehand?

 

[blut wump]

Maximise the benefits rather than decreasing the risks. Think of it terms of there being no point other than laziness to risk health repercussions to gain what a little bit of effort in the gym will give you natty. Of course, if you're really pressed for time then you might want to take the risk but, otherwise, jumping on the sauce without a reasonable amount of established muscle is just silly unless you already know that you're hormonally deficient.

The vast majority of youngsters looking to juice would be better served by getting onto the diet and training forums rather than looking on this forum. This also applies to many others regardless of age.

 

[digit0x]

Maximise the benefits rather than decreasing the risks. Think of it terms of there being no point other than laziness to risk health repercussions to gain what a little bit of effort in the gym will give you natty. Of course, if you're really pressed for time then you might want to take the risk but, otherwise, jumping on the sauce without a reasonable amount of established muscle is just silly unless you already know that you're hormonally deficient.

The vast majority of youngsters looking to juice would be better served by getting onto the diet and training forums rather than looking on this forum. This also applies to many others regardless of age.

But not 'quicker' served. I would be surprised if anything less than 70% of AAS users originally commenced their first cycle being peaked (or close to) naturally. I would guess a lot of users from various backgrounds (athletes, BB's, weekend warriors etc) could have achieved substantially more naturally, but began using to realize those gains sooner. Now I'm not saying it was or wasn't the right thing to do, rather most did so on the grounds of rapid gratification.

 

[digit0x]

If one is done growing (as in height), has a sound physical foundation along with knowledge of his body and proper diet and training regimens, and has matured sufficienty mentally and emotionally, then shouldn't that be all that matters, and shouldn't age really not be much of a factor?

I would like opinions here regarding this issue.

90% of that is true, and yes, a particular age isn't necessarily magical. But, the higher your age, the more likely those things you mentioned above are true. And bro, at 21, most people are a few years away from being 'sufficiently' mentally and emotionally mature. There are no absolutes in age, and only you know when you are really ready.

 

[thelion2005]

I've noticed there is quite a range of opinions concerning this issue. Some feel that it is okay to start using AAS as soon as you're done growing (as in height), and others feel you should wait until you are at least 25, although most seem to feel 21 is the magical age.

If one is done growing (as in height), has a sound physical foundation along with knowledge of his body and proper diet and training regimens, and has matured sufficienty mentally and emotionally, then shouldn't that be all that matters, and shouldn't age really not be much of a factor?

I would like opinions here regarding this issue.

We are all different and mature at various ages. I've seen the early pics of Arnold, and he was a man at 15. I'd bet he juiced at 16, suppiled by the Dr friend of his in the gym.

I juiced at 13. I was not maturing and the family Dr gave me test in the delt once a week for 10 weeks. That solved that problem. I still was a string bean, but I got "pubs".

And it had no negative effect on my growth plates. In fact, it jumped started my growth to 6' 1".

Yes ... that is an extreme example. The next time I juiced was at 18. Another Dr gave me dbols so I could gain some weight. I was stuck at 155. It worked of course.

What do I recommend? Today, the laws are very punitive and I'd never tell a kid under 18 to inject test. He is full of natural test anyway. I'd make him a natural until 21 with a real spot light on diet and recovery. He'd learn how to get the best from his body this way.

Then I'd have him inject about 100 test p over 10 weeks and see what happens to his blood work. Sides would be watched so he didn't start losing his hair and becoming one big angry zit.

 

[lil-swole]

Then I'd have him inject about 100 test p over 10 weeks and see what happens to his blood work. Sides would be watched so he didn't start losing his hair and becoming one big angry zit.

100mg/wk Test Propionate? Come on now, I'd highly doubt that would do a whole lot more than suppress your HPTA.

 

[al420]

he is saying to do 100mg of prop PER DAY

 

[lil-swole]

he is saying to do 100mg of prop PER DAY

Well in that case that seems a bit much for a first cycle, heh.

 

[blut wump]

I'm sure Lion will qualify what he meant but I suspect that he meant 100mg per week in split doses.

 

[methodx31]

So your saying training for 2-4yrs approxiamatly will minimise risks opposed to not training for a few years beforehand?

Yes. If you start juicing and training with no prior experience doing either, the chances of over or underdosing, overtraining and possible tendon, ligament and soft tissue damage are likely due to a general lack of awareness concerning ones strength and endurance levels. Train first, get some experience, then attempt using. Be safe, be smart and make real long term gains.
Peace

 

[methodx31]

Maximise the benefits rather than decreasing the risks. Think of it terms of there being no point other than laziness to risk health repercussions to gain what a little bit of effort in the gym will give you natty. Of course, if you're really pressed for time then you might want to take the risk but, otherwise, jumping on the sauce without a reasonable amount of established muscle is just silly unless you already know that you're hormonally deficient.

The vast majority of youngsters looking to juice would be better served by getting onto the diet and training forums rather than looking on this forum. This also applies to many others regardless of age.

Agreed!!