Tolerable Upper Intake Level of ALA?

[Frackal]

This is great stuff, I'd love to try some serious dosages like 400mg before each meal and 600mg before post workout meal, equating to about 2,600mg per day... Anyone have any FACTUAL information on the upper intake of this stuff that would be safe...I remember reading concerns from (ulter?) or someone else about digestive problems with quantities approaching a gram per day...

 

[Fonz]

LOL......I seriously doubt anybody would get digestive
problems after taking ALA unless they had a pre-existing
ulcer.

If you're still paranoid though, get a glass of water put
some baking powder in it, swallow it and then take all your pills.
The baking soda will buffer the stomach acids.

I take 2000mg/day, and thats were cost effectiveness
maxes out.

3000mg will only give you a 5-10% increase in effectiveness
yet costs 50% more.

If you want, you can go as high as 3000mg(Been there done that)
but essentially you'll be throwing 900mg away every day.

Fonz

 

[CB38AC]

can ala make you fat like insulin...everyone overlooks this question

 

[Frackal]

Kewl fonz...thanks again for the good info...

Hey, how do you think ALA compares to inectable insulin in terms of transporting nutrients to the muscle cell? I realize of course insulin is more powerful and it is hard to compare the two but a guestimate would be cool..maybe from your personal experience...

Also, do you find your body attenuates to the insulin sensitizing effects of the ALA fairly quickly or...?

 

[Frackal]

can ala make you fat like insulin...everyone overlooks this question

I dont' think it can, I think it will do the opposite as it only increases insulin sensitivity in the muscle and not fat cell... (right Fonz??)

 

[sirperry1]

bump

 

[Riker29]

Whoa - whats this?

What are you guys taking these high doses of ALA for? I thought it was mainly just an anti-oxidant?

 

[Phreaky]

1000mg+ daily amounts are needed to get the "drug-like" effect from ALA. It can not make you fat, it will actually lean you out. It does this through several mechanisms, mainly through insulin manipulation. It will increase sensitivity to a point were most excess dietary carb "spillage" will be shuttled into you muscles as glycogen. I find that 1500mg/day is the point of diminishing returns.

 

[Fonz]

*I think I explained this o the Supp. board but might
as well do it here to.

W/o ALA this is how the insulin-glucose realtionship
works.

a) You eat carbs+whatever
b) Insulin is released into the blood-stream by the pancreas
c) glucose and amino-acids from your meal are shuttled
into both miocytes and adipocytes.

Now, lets look at a meal w/ALA

a) same as above
b) same as above

Now HERE is the difference:

c) ALA has improved glucose up-take into the miocytes.

So, when glucose and amino acids enter the blood
stream and are pushed by insulin into the cells
the amount of glucose+amino acids entering the muscle cells
is increased. This leads to more nutrients entering the muscle
cells and less "nutrients"(LOL) entering the fat cells.
This is just not the case w/o ALA.

What this basically means is that ALA has a nutrient
partitioning effect which over time will reduce fat-gain
in favour of muscle gain.

AND, ALA is INDEPENDENT of Insulin levels.
It has ZERO effect on them, so it doesn't reduce
the anti-catabolic effects of insulin.

Fonz

 

[Fonz]

Another post. I have to be a bit more precise.

1. ALA will not make you fat.

2. ALA increase the levels of glut-4 transporters within the
out-side of the cell. This NEVER down-regulates so ALA
can be used for decades if you wish.

3. ALA does increase glucose sensitivity into both FAT and
MUSCLE cells, BUT what does the body refill first:

Empty glycogen stores. Therefore most of the nutrients
you eat will be shuttled to the muscle cells first +
more b/c you have increased the muscle cells up-take
of glucose considerably. Then and ONLY them, will
nutrients get shuttled into your fat cells.(Which will
happen anyways)

ALA is not a licence to overeat. All things being equal,
you will be leaner if you use ALA and gain more muscle
if you use ALA.

Fonz

 

[Dooley]

Good posts Fonz.. thanks!

 

[CB38AC]

well I guess my poor ass is getting ALArather than yohimburn or glutamine....So poor can only get one thing...college blows

 

[JG1]

I'm taking 1200mg/day of ALA....200mg with every meal. Would I benefit by taking a higher dose with my postworkout meal which contains 40g protein, and 85g carbs (60g simple carbs, 25g complex) ? This is my highest carb meal of the day.

By higher dose I mean maybe 300-400mg.

 

[SirWanksalot]

Similar question to ALA - Can I get some additional input this post concerning Cinnamon and ALA.

http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=109152

Thanks

Sirwanksalot

-------- http://www.als-tdf.org/alstdf/treatments/ala.asp ------
A study was done on transgenic mouse models of ALS at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston, MA that evaluated the effects of five agents, including ALA, in the transgenic mouse model. The data from the study showed a significant improvement in mouse survival when ALA was administered in their diet. The other four agents showed no effect. The concern of translating this data to human effectiveness is that ALA has a very short half-life (the time it takes for the drug to decay by one half), only 30 minutes. It is not known if the drug levels are maintained in humans to produce the same effect.

 

[Riker29]

Hm, this is all very interesting.

Q - This seems to be based upn experimental evidence. Has anyone actually NOTICED an effect? And if so, what effect? How dramatic? Are we just talking a small change here?

Q - So, what sort of dose and dose scheduling is recommended? How much how often, does one time it in some manner in relation to meals, workouts, sleep, etc. Is there any REAL basis for such recommendations, or are people just sorta using an educated guess?

Q - So for us non-chem majors, is this basically the way it works .... you eat, get fuel into your system, and in the presnece of ALA, MORE of that fuel goes into the muscle (for reciveryt/growth/energy) and less goes into fat stores ... than it would other wise in the abscence of ALA?

Thanks again Fonz. With all of the other "pseudo" chem experts, who only base what they say upon lab info, you always have a good balance of lab based info AND real-worlds results.

 

[Frackal]

I'll tell you my experience, this shit works...I have been using 300mg with each meal, and I'm pumped all day, with some crazy pumps at times....good stuff...

 

[Riker29]

I could see the rationale of taking some with a PRE workout drink with some carbs in it - to slam some fuel into the muscles, and also after a workout to do the same ...... and then with each meal to provide a greater affinity for fuel getting into muscles instead of fat .... am I on the right track?

Again, it would be interesting to get some knowledgebale answers to the questions I posed above (2 posts up i think).

Also, I am getting 100 mg caps at GNC. Is that the max per cap that anyone has seen? What are you guys doing to get these high does?

 

[JG1]

Bump

 

[SirWanksalot]

Beyond-A-Century
https://www2.acadia.net/cgi-bin/BAC/web_store.cgi
Enter keywords in search: LIPOIC ACID, ALPHA PURE
50 grams (bulk powder) / Price: $19.00 / 3.8 cents per 100mg
Daily Dosage 900mg = 34.2 cents

https://www.nutriteam.com/alpha.htm#180 :
180 (300mg) caps = 54grams / Price: $28.95 / 5.36 cents per 100 mg
Daily Dosage 900mg (3 caps) = 48.24 cents

https://www.kilosports.com :
1000 (100mg) caps = 100grams / Price: $69.95 / 6.99 cents per 100 mg
Daily Dosage 900mg (9 caps) = 62.91 cents

 

[Riker29]

bump

 

[JG1]

bump

^

 

[Frackal]

You do NOT want to buy it from GNC...trust me I work there, you'll get royally fucked if you do..we sell 60 100 caps for 24.99...

 

[Riker29]

Yeah, GNC sucks, I happened to pick it up there once .... I know in general that GNC over-charges.

 

[riskybizz007]

I still see people buying powder ALA. I had read somewhere that ALA when exposed to oxygen or light will make it less effective. Was this a false statement?

 

[Fonz]

Thats completely true.

However, you'd have to leave the powder in the sun
fot like a whole day. Which nobody does.

It does have a smaller shelf-life than the capped
version b/c the capped version has several additives
that make the ALA more stable.

Fonz

 

[Riker29]

Hm, this is all very interesting.

Q - This seems to be based upn experimental evidence. Has anyone actually NOTICED an effect? And if so, what effect? How dramatic? Are we just talking a small change here?

Q - So, what sort of dose and dose scheduling is recommended? How much how often, does one time it in some manner in relation to meals, workouts, sleep, etc. Is there any REAL basis for such recommendations, or are people just sorta using an educated guess?

Q - So for us non-chem majors, is this basically the way it works .... you eat, get fuel into your system, and in the presnece of ALA, MORE of that fuel goes into the muscle (for reciveryt/growth/energy) and less goes into fat stores ... than it would other wise in the abscence of ALA?

Come on .... someone has to know .....

 

[JG1]

^

 

[JG1]

Bump for Riker29

 

[=w=]

Has anyone ordered from:

"https://www.nutriteam.com/alpha.htm#180 :
180 (300mg) caps = 54grams / Price: $28.95 / 5.36 cents per 100 mg
Daily Dosage 900mg (3 caps) = 48.24 cents "

How fast was shipping and did your order come intact, etc. ? Thanks

 

[macrophage69alpha]

take 300mg before bed.. wake up about 3-4hrs.. STARVING.. excellent glucose clearance

 

[Fonz]

take 300mg before bed.. wake up about 3-4hrs.. STARVING.. excellent glucose clearance

Damn right. During a CKD diet I experimented with
ALA and with my BG monitor.

Took 2000mg on Sunday night w/ my last meal(6PM)

BG= 110mg/dl reading at 7:30PM Ketones: No.

Later on Monday(After University) 5PM

BG= 59mg/dl ketone stick: Mid-range.

So, in 23 hours I entered Ketosis after the carb-up W/O
insuin(where ou can do it in 8 hours with Humulin R)

It goes without saying that the results blew me away......

Fonz.