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There is no such thing as 'over-training' on AAS

L

LoneTree

New member
I have been reading all the stuff about over training.
On AAS, their is no such thing as over-training.
Just listen to your body.
I have been training every group twice a week, and am making great gains.
I just listen to my body. If it doesn't heart, I will work out.
The more I train, the more I gain.

So, if your body says it's OK, train.
Forget the bullshit about over-training (on AAS).
 
LoneTree said:
I have been reading all the stuff about over training.
On AAS, their is no such thing as over-training.
Just listen to your body.
I have been training every group twice a week, and am making great gains.
I just listen to my body. If it doesn't heart, I will work out.
The more I train, the more I gain.

So, if your body says it's OK, train.
Forget the bullshit about over-training (on AAS).
Click to expand...

You're wrong about that. You can overtrain when on. You may be able to go into the gym and workout, but that's doesn't mean that you are maximizing your gains. I'm not arguing about what you can do. Everyone is different. I know that if I train each bodypart more frequently than once every 6 days, I don't progress as fast. Yeah, I can do it, but it doesn't deliver the results that more rest does. I go balls to the wall when I train though. If you go through the motions, than that's different. Anyone can train 6 days a week by going through the motions.
I just feel much better by training each bodypart this way. Symptoms of overtraining are: tired, loss of appetite, soreness that won't go away, weaker than usual, insomnia, etc.
 
This is the thing:
In my last (ist) cycle, I worked out 2-3 week. Only on Deca 200/week, gained 10-12 pounds that I kept.
This time, for first 3 weeks of my cycle (Deca 300+Tren 250+Eq 200 /week), I was working out once a week and not making much gains.
Last week, I went to every 3 days, and I can see hard gains.
That is my personal observation.
I also accept that people may vary.
 
Uhh... since when is 3 days a week even close to over-training?

And you can overtrain while on. Just because your treshold is much higher does not mean that you cannot reach it.
 
overtraining has more to do with over-stressing the nervous system than anything else and AAS should not be a big factor in that regard
 
Overtraining CAN be done while on the goods. If you can train bodyparts twice per week and still make gains....it is time to call Guiness Book of World Records, or maybe write your own book - I would buy it in a second.
 
i agree that taxing the nervous system is what one should be most concerned about whether on or off AAS. but some anabolics also stimulate the CNS so you can handle more workload, just dont go overboard. i think its best to do every other day workouts when trying to grow. as for hitting bodyparts twice a week, i think this works great for lagging parts from my experience.
 
2lgun,of course you can train a bodypart twice a week.The key is not to do too much in each workout.You can make much better gains training a muscle with more frequency,but with less volume,than training a muscle only once a week but with lots more volume.Don't believe me?? Don't take my word for it,just try it,and see for yourself.I've made the best gains of my life training this way.If you've never tried it,then you don't know that it doesn't work.
BTW,I agree that you can overtrain even whilst on,but not as much as when your not on.
 
Catch Wrestler said:
2lgun,of course you can train a bodypart twice a week.The key is not to do too much in each workout.You can make much better gains training a muscle with more frequency,but with less volume,than training a muscle only once a week but with lots more volume.Don't believe me?? Don't take my word for it,just try it,and see for yourself.I've made the best gains of my life training this way.If you've never tried it,then you don't know that it doesn't work.
BTW,I agree that you can overtrain even whilst on,but not as much as when your not on.
Click to expand...

Great post - low frequency 1x per week runs headlong into detraining and is suboptimal. Just because you train a bodypart 2x per week or even 3 does not mean you need to double or triple your volume. Taking the volume from the single day's workout (6 sets of squats) and dividing it evenly (3 sets of squat 2x per week) results in the same volume but far better frequency. Most good programs are arranged like this. In addition, athletic programs are a lot more dense in the basic compound lifts with a lot less bullshit that does little more than take up limited recovery. Be a mizer with your recovery, add only limited targeted assistance work to address a weakness, save that stuff so you can get another squat session in. Squats, Pulls (DL/Clean), Presses, and Rows are going to drive 95% of your gains - why dilute your efforts unless necessary.
 
Madcow2 said:
Great post - low frequency 1x per week runs headlong into detraining and is suboptimal. Just because you train a bodypart 2x per week or even 3 does not mean you need to double or triple your volume. Taking the volume from the single day's workout (6 sets of squats) and dividing it evenly (3 sets of squat 2x per week) results in the same volume but far better frequency. Most good programs are arranged like this. In addition, athletic programs are a lot more dense in the basic compound lifts with a lot less bullshit that does little more than take up limited recovery. Be a mizer with your recovery, add only limited targeted assistance work to address a weakness, save that stuff so you can get another squat session in. Squats, Pulls (DL/Clean), Presses, and Rows are going to drive 95% of your gains - why dilute your efforts unless necessary.
Click to expand...
I agree with you. But, I was under the impression that this person was training bodyparts twice per week...nothing was said about volume or frequency. 25 sets of squats 4 times per week will get you nowhere. I agree with your frequency and volume statement though.
 
Madcow,
I didn't say anything about low frequency training,and I wasn't talking about increasing your volume.What I was referring to,was training a muscle more times during the week instead of just once,but if you were to do that in the way that most people train - i.e.with quite a lot of volume each workout,then it would lead to overtraining.So instead,the idea is to train with less volume in each workout,but do it more times in a week.I can assure you,you'll get better gains than you thought humanly possible.As I said,don't take my word for it,just try it yourself,and you'll see what I mean.
 
LoneTree said:
I have been reading all the stuff about over training.
On AAS, their is no such thing as over-training.
Just listen to your body.
I have been training every group twice a week, and am making great gains.
I just listen to my body. If it doesn't heart, I will work out.
The more I train, the more I gain.

So, if your body says it's OK, train.
Forget the bullshit about over-training (on AAS).
Click to expand...


Try cutting on a carb depletion program and see if this theory holds. Enjoy you trip into catabolic-ville bro. I'm glad you are feeling that invincible bring it on vibe that we all love about gear, but trust me you will learn it is an illusion. The ways to learn are by listening to us, or by tearing yourself down til you understand. Do it the first. The thing you had right is listen to your body, but the more you train the more you gain thing only goes so far. Sometimes it take twice the will power to cut reps, volume, or intesity but you learn to do it b/c its necessary for continued growth or successful bf reduction. There IS such a thing as too much of a good thing.
 
Its always so cool when the fundamentals of bodybuilding that I've known and followed for years, to the point where I've added well over 100lbs to my body, are disproved in one post by someone new to steroids.....
Wish I had of known this years ago, that way, instead of being 260lbs at 5'8", I could be well over 300lbs by now
 
There is no question that you can overtrain. Increases protein synthesis is not going to inhibit myostatin. And until you inhibit myostatin there will be a limit to your growth rate. Without growth you will overtrain at some point.
Now when we are all lucky enough for the drug companies to have an approved myostatin inhibitors which would mean unlimited muscle growth, I predict ten years, we will need our rest between training days.
 
idcbp said:
Try cutting on a carb depletion program and see if this theory holds. Enjoy you trip into catabolic-ville bro. I'm glad you are feeling that invincible bring it on vibe that we all love about gear, but trust me you will learn it is an illusion. The ways to learn are by listening to us, or by tearing yourself down til you understand. Do it the first. The thing you had right is listen to your body, but the more you train the more you gain thing only goes so far. Sometimes it take twice the will power to cut reps, volume, or intesity but you learn to do it b/c its necessary for continued growth or successful bf reduction. There IS such a thing as too much of a good thing.
Click to expand...
I know - I was agreeing with you and just adding additional info, explanation, and support for others. You misunderstood or I wasn't clear. This is exactly the way I train.
 
Particularly when dieting one is at the most risk of overtraining. Why do you think so many competitors come into a show looking thin, depleted, and nothing like they should, which is full, hard, dry? They overtrain and have depleted their bodies to the point that they lose muscle and fullness.
 
Madcow2 said:
I know - I was agreeing with you and just adding additional info, explanation, and support for others. You misunderstood or I wasn't clear. This is exactly the way I train.
Click to expand...


Hey bro, I was responding to the original post by Lonetree, sorry if it appeared I was replying tpo or disputing your post. I found your post to be solid, as are most of the posts on the thread, save the priginal LOL but even his zeal can be forgiven b/c we've all been there when the right gear, routine and diet come together and you think nothing can stop you.
 
** There is no such thing as 'over-training' on AAS

So you're saying I could spend 150 hours a week in the gym and not overtrain while taking 10mg of dbol per day?

Of course not. There is still a threshold, it's just different.
 
LoneTree said:
This is the thing:
In my last (ist) cycle, I worked out 2-3 week. Only on Deca 200/week, gained 10-12 pounds that I kept.
This time, for first 3 weeks of my cycle (Deca 300+Tren 250+Eq 200 /week), I was working out once a week and not making much gains.
Last week, I went to every 3 days, and I can see hard gains.
That is my personal observation.
I also accept that people may vary.
Click to expand...
That's undertraining, do you understand what overtraining is?
 
Ulter said:
There is no question that you can overtrain. Increases protein synthesis is not going to inhibit myostatin. And until you inhibit myostatin there will be a limit to your growth rate. Without growth you will overtrain at some point.
Now when we are all lucky enough for the drug companies to have an approved myostatin inhibitors which would mean unlimited muscle growth, I predict ten years, we will need our rest between training days.
Click to expand...
That would be incredible. I'd drop 10k on that if it came out on the streets.
 
ohashi said:
Uhh... since when is 3 days a week even close to over-training?

And you can overtrain while on. Just because your treshold is much higher does not mean that you cannot reach it.
Click to expand...
It is every muscle group every 3-4 days (twice a week).
 
genarr3 said:
That's undertraining, do you understand what overtraining is?
Click to expand...
I train mon wed fri. This seems to work well. I missed today, 1st time in 3 months, so i'll make it up tomorrow. Its push,legs,pull
 
To all of you thank you very much.

This is my source of knowledge: Arnold's book 'The New Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding'.

Page 147:

'Different muscles recover from exercise at different rates. As I mentioned, biceps recover the fastest. The lower back muscles recover the slowest, taking about a hundred hours to completely recuperate from a heavy workout. However, in most cases, giving a body part 48 hours' rest is sufficient, which means skipping a day after training a muscle before training it again.'

Any comments?
 
LoneTree said:
I have been reading all the stuff about over training.
On AAS, their is no such thing as over-training.
Just listen to your body.
I have been training every group twice a week, and am making great gains.
I just listen to my body. If it doesn't heart, I will work out.
The more I train, the more I gain.

So, if your body says it's OK, train.
Forget the bullshit about over-training (on AAS).
Click to expand...


Worst advise I've heard in awhile
 
LoneTree said:
To all of you thank you very much.

This is my source of knowledge: Arnold's book 'The New Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding'.

Page 147:

'Different muscles recover from exercise at different rates. As I mentioned, biceps recover the fastest. The lower back muscles recover the slowest, taking about a hundred hours to completely recuperate from a heavy workout. However, in most cases, giving a body part 48 hours' rest is sufficient, which means skipping a day after training a muscle before training it again.'

Any comments?
Click to expand...
That book is very old, not exactly state of the art when it comes to the science of bodybuilding. Not to mention Arnold was famous for misinformation.
 
detroitbodybuildertigers said:
Are you Arnold?
Click to expand...

Took the words right out of my mouth. Despite Arnold's incredible physique, he didn't know much about what worked and what didn't. There's no doubt that he could have been bigger if he would have trained less.
 
Muscles have a LOT more blood flow to them than tendons and ligaments do, so if you are atating that while on AAS, that you cannot overtrain, you are wrong, bro. The muscles may get strong, but if the tendons and ligaments are not given sufficient time to adspt to the increase in muscle mass and muscle contractile power, you are begging for injury.

Not a flame, just a reminder that even on AASm there are certain parts of the human physiological buildup that will lag behind...
 
Look all thru high school I played football, wrestled and ran track, that was year around training by the time I was a junior I was done!!! so just focused on Football and Wrestling. We trained muscle groups twice a week, upper body and lower body. It was more strength and conditioning I didnt gained a pound of muscle just brute strength was good but never gained any muscle, towards the end of my senior year after football season I focus more on training once muscle group a week. I went from 172lbs to graduating at 195lbs and actually got stronger. Been training ever since like that and I know a lot more rest is important
 
ya i did the upper body one day lower the next back and forth...
I got really tight.... felt good but got stuck for a long time...
finally took some time off about a week.. came back in and my strength finally improved...
 
funny....how come pro BB'ers still talk about overtraining?
 
Mr_MAX said:
ya i did the upper body one day lower the next back and forth...
I got really tight.... felt good but got stuck for a long time...
finally took some time off about a week.. came back in and my strength finally improved...
Click to expand...

I have the answer you are looking for:

This is a long post but this phenomenon gets specifically explained in detail. It's not a mystery or related in the way that you would think. This is the answer to why this happens and if you use it right, you will maximize your gains.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4647007&postcount=22
 
LoneTree said:
To all of you thank you very much.

This is my source of knowledge: Arnold's book 'The New Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding'.

Page 147:

'Different muscles recover from exercise at different rates. As I mentioned, biceps recover the fastest. The lower back muscles recover the slowest, taking about a hundred hours to completely recuperate from a heavy workout. However, in most cases, giving a body part 48 hours' rest is sufficient, which means skipping a day after training a muscle before training it again.'

Any comments?
Click to expand...

I'll be flat out honest and tell you the Arnold has not authored a good training book and is not a resource you want to look to for anything training related. Good guy, great BBer, very successful, but for training theory - ouch. Also, if you have fairly limited experience, I'd advise against throwing out blanket assertations like the title of this thread.

If you want some names and some good training books, I listed some a while ago in this post towards the bottom. Most people likely won't recognize any of them but believe me when I say that if you talk to anyone truly knowledgable about training (like the names listed in this thread) they are familiar with all of these and will vouch that they are some of the best books ever written on the subject.
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4323293&postcount=3
 
Makavelli said:
You're wrong about that. You can overtrain when on. You may be able to go into the gym and workout, but that's doesn't mean that you are maximizing your gains. I'm not arguing about what you can do. Everyone is different. I know that if I train each bodypart more frequently than once every 6 days, I don't progress as fast. Yeah, I can do it, but it doesn't deliver the results that more rest does. I go balls to the wall when I train though. If you go through the motions, than that's different. Anyone can train 6 days a week by going through the motions.
I just feel much better by training each bodypart this way. Symptoms of overtraining are: tired, loss of appetite, soreness that won't go away, weaker than usual, insomnia, etc.
Click to expand...

As a powerlifter I can tell you that your joints hit the wall after a while and it's impossible to make any gains. I recently took two weeks off for the first time in many years and my joints feel much better. My first day back is today, we'll see how it goes. Also, we stay (at least test) on all year round, as most PL'ers do. But, I agree it's very hard to overtrain on ASS.

Boz
 
LoneTree said:
Did you see my post above about Arnold's book?
Any comments?
Click to expand...

on thread i was reading how you were an M.D. is this true..
do you write your own scripts..
 
genarr3 said:
Great read, you write that?
Click to expand...
Yup. Glad you liked it. I can't claim credit for anything other than putting it into words though but it's really valuable to understand the way training works. Too much emphasis on the response (diet/drugs) rather than the stimulus. If they really wanted to keep the kids off drugs they'd ensure access to the best training. It's much easier to say "No" when you are making consistent solid progress toward your goals than when you are stagnating, spinning your wheels, and it seems like you are going nowhere.

I get diahrea of the fingers occasionally but in that particular case it was worthwhile because I can reuse and link it. I keep most of my stuff tucked into the 5x5 thread and I just post additional topics at various points. My next task is going to figure out how to make an index to add to the first page so that it all can be more easily accessed and navigated. If you like that I've linked and posted a bunch of stuff in the 5x5 thread here: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215
A lot is on the first page but if you skim the other pages you'll come across some other fairly decent stuff.
 
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