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The War on Christmas
- Thread starter javaguru
- Start date
heavy_duty
New member
I am
I wish they would just tell me to fuck off. I know that's what they're thinking.javaguru said:
lol how is that offensive?
i assume you're being facetious here
I almost think twice when someone says Merry Christmas
How do they know whether Im a christian or not?
frankly, they dont
I could very well be Jewish
good for them Im not anything so I dont take it offensively
Im just saying
i assume you're being facetious here
I almost think twice when someone says Merry Christmas
How do they know whether Im a christian or not?
frankly, they dont
I could very well be Jewish
good for them Im not anything so I dont take it offensively
Im just saying
javaguru
Banned
Bill O'Reilly has some weird Christmas fetish.....he recently declared a victory in the war....Smurfy said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhWgfpFucfU
needtogetarmy
CEO of Project Mayhem
I am not a religious fanatic but I am also reasonable enough to recognize this nations was founded one some core beliefs and I think it is horrible it is not politically correct to wish someone Merry Christmas.
swole
Well-known member
it's about being with family and your loved ones you fucking miserable fucks
people really need to analyze where they went wrong in if this whole holiday season pisses them off
no i don't get offended
no i don't care, even if they said happy kwanza i'd smile and enjoy the rest of my mall walking and smile at all the people and the kids taking their pics with santa and couples holding hands
people really need to analyze where they went wrong in if this whole holiday season pisses them off
no i don't get offended
no i don't care, even if they said happy kwanza i'd smile and enjoy the rest of my mall walking and smile at all the people and the kids taking their pics with santa and couples holding hands
javaguru
Banned
The Puritans that came over on the Mayflower were about forcing their beliefs on people and abject intolerance. They were the Taliban of their day....I know the right likes to claim this is a Christian nation but the founding father's were Deist. Many people in the country who call themselves christian consider themselves christian by birth and not true belief. Unfortunately, 53% of the population still believes in creationism...The Old Vet said:
Powerbuilder333
Timeout? No, timeouts are for Plats
If your not Christian, than why celebrate the birth of Christ?
Hypocrites!!!
Hypocrites!!!
No I don't get severely offended. I understand that not all people view christmas the same way that I do. However I think that this world has taken the meaning of christmas and totally screwed it. I understand christmas is suposed to be for kids or whatever and that is why santa is still being spread. However in my mind that is not what it is, not at all.My 9 year old knows there is no santa, and when he asked me at about age 5 or 6 I told him the truth. No, there is not a santa and I sat down and explained as best I could what christmas was all about. In a religious persons eyes I see it as if I lie to my kids for years telling them santa is real but we cannot see him yet I tell them later in life that he is fake what will they think about jesus? I am not going to lie to my kids if they ask me for the truth.... But yeah I think it should be merry christmas, but if non religious people feel comfortable saying happy holidays than so be it..Just stop trying to change everything over to holiday such as "holiday tree", "Holiday music" etc.....I am willing to allow you to call it whatever you wish than I should be able to do the same!!!
Powerbuilder333
Timeout? No, timeouts are for Plats
javaguru said:
No, it's a Christian holiday - hence the root word "Christ" in Christmas.
How about celibrating Festivus? Nothing wrong with that.
Powerbuilder333 said:
I think you're just being argumentative now. You now as well as Java that Christmas is very heavily secularized. Sure the original (and true) meaning of the holiday is to celebrate the birth of Christ, but none of the popular imagery, songs, and activities have anything at all to do with religion. Only practicing Christians celebrate the religious themes.
Powerbuilder333
Timeout? No, timeouts are for Plats
Yes, I and 2.1 billion other people must be wrong.RottenWillow said:
http://www.christianpost.com/articl...her_than_World;_Less_than_Muslims,_Hindus.htm
How (and why) non-Christians choose to intrude on one of our 3 most sacred events I have no control over. Just greedy bastards I suppose. I should be happy that Good Friday isn't commercialized - yet!
Powerbuilder333 said:
I didnt say you were wrong. I said you were being argumentative didnt I?
Powerbuilder333
Timeout? No, timeouts are for Plats
Well, yes you didRottenWillow said:
I am TOTALLY NOT offended and I'm a Christian. Meaning I believe in Christ.
Considering that Christmas is NOT a Christian holiday (it is SO like Christians to put their name on someting that is NOT theirs and then get offended when when someone tries to take it back)
Holiday tree, xmas tree, Jesus was not born on xmas, (lol) and Christmas is really the celebration of the birth of a pagan god or goddess (I can remember) celebrated by eating and drinking and the exchange of gifts on effing December 25th. The Christmas tree itself....just look it up NOTHING to do with Christ, the holiday is not biblical.
I get in a huge debate with my family over this, as my grandparents and all the other old folks get so offended when I say so, and the other half of my family is Catholic and I think they really believe that Xmas is a holy day! Holy Crap! hahaha
BTW the Puritans did Not celebrate Christmas.
and I still celebrate, but its all about gifts and time with family, at least I admit it, maybe some peace on earth thrown in there between cocktails.
Considering that Christmas is NOT a Christian holiday (it is SO like Christians to put their name on someting that is NOT theirs and then get offended when when someone tries to take it back)
Holiday tree, xmas tree, Jesus was not born on xmas, (lol) and Christmas is really the celebration of the birth of a pagan god or goddess (I can remember) celebrated by eating and drinking and the exchange of gifts on effing December 25th. The Christmas tree itself....just look it up NOTHING to do with Christ, the holiday is not biblical.
I get in a huge debate with my family over this, as my grandparents and all the other old folks get so offended when I say so, and the other half of my family is Catholic and I think they really believe that Xmas is a holy day! Holy Crap! hahaha
BTW the Puritans did Not celebrate Christmas.
and I still celebrate, but its all about gifts and time with family, at least I admit it, maybe some peace on earth thrown in there between cocktails.
S
silverstar1025
Guest
I could care less!
Mavafanculo
New member
like O'Reily gives a crap about any of this stuff really. It's just a great wedge issue to rouse up the rabble and boost his radio & TV ratings and help him sell books.
Holy man O'Reily goes home and makes sexual harrassment phone calls to his female staff about loofah sponges and wacking off.
Amen.
Holy man O'Reily goes home and makes sexual harrassment phone calls to his female staff about loofah sponges and wacking off.
Amen.
Mavafanculo
New member
redguru said:
his tag line is something like "i'm the only guy who cares about YOU" right
I actually like some of Buchanan's brand of populism - except when he starts talking about tossing out every immigrant from the last 20 years and that kind of stuff lol
If you asked most Americans today what Christmas is about, they'd likely say family, giving, and (possibly) the birth of Jesus Christ. The more jaded might say it is all about trees, lights, and shopping. Growing up, I witnessed a number of "put the Christ back in Christmas" campaigns, all wistfully yearning for a return to an earlier time when Christmas did not involve the other popular aspects (such as gift giving). And I even know of some who refuse to give gifts in their family because they think it helps them to put more focus on the "real" meaning of Christmas, which of course is, at its most basic level, a celebration of the birth of Jesus.
But there is, at least in the Catholic tradition, much more to Christmas than that, and there are, I think, theologically sound reasons to participate in Christmas as it has developed (including the giving of gifts). First of all, the Catholic new year starts, as far as the Church calendar is concerned, with Advent. Advent (an Anglicized form of the Latin adventus, which roughly translates as "coming") starts on the fourth Sunday before Christmas; it is a four-week period of prayer and penance during which we are called to prepare for the coming of Christ. It has a two-fold meaning: first, symbolically, we are preparing for the first coming of Christ at his birth, the Incarnation, which is celebrated at Christ's mass (Christmas); second, really, we are preparing for the second coming of Christ, which all Christians are called to be prepared for.
This is why Advent is a time of prayer and penance, and in times past, both Catholics and Orthodox celebrated it in a way similar to Lent (another penetential season leading up to Easter). In fact, I'm told by an Orthodox friend that they still celebrate Advent with fasting, and it is a more solemn season than Lent is for them. This is why, if you go into a Catholic church during Advent, the altar will be decorated in purple (the color of penance) as well as the priest's vestments; it is also why Advent wreaths use purple candles. Additionally, on the third Sunday of Advent, the color of the vestments and candles are pink to symbolize a heightened sense that Christ is almost here and to lighten the penetential character a bit in celebration of that anticipation.
These days most Catholics (in America at least) seem to have forgotten the penetential aspect of this season; I think it is in part due to the popular American sentiment during this time, which is anything but penetential. It is hard to focus on penance when the culture around you is saturated with the happy-go-lucky atmosphere of "the holidays." Of course, we should never lose site of the joyous culmination of the season, but Catholics should try to remember that in the midst of all this, we are called to prayerful penance in preparation of Christ's coming.
Advent is one way in which I think the Catholic understanding of Christmas is greatly enriched. Of course, the pinnacle of Advent comes with Christmas, when we celebrate the Incarnation of God. There is much in early Christian writings and, especially, in the East about the significance of the Incarnation. Some have seen it as the single most significant event in human history, even more significant than, or at least as significant as, the sacrifice of Christ on the Cross. I don't have time to explore this topic in any depth, but to sum up, there is an ancient saying attributed to St. Athanasius (and/or St. Irenaeus, depending on whom you ask) that speaks to it: "God became man so that we might become God." On its surface, this seems radical, but the essence is that it is by Christ's taking on humanity in the Incarnation that our likeness to God (our being created in the image of God) becomes complete, and it is only through his becoming human that the sacrifice on the Cross can be the source of saving grace for us.
There is so much more to explore, theologically speaking, on this point, but I draw it out briefly to highlight that there is an ancient Christian significance that is lost in the popular, superficial acknowledgement that Christmas is about celebrating Jesus' birth. The Nativity is only important in as much as we consider the grace that became possible through the Incarnation. I should pause here and comment on a misconception that might occur when speaking of the Incarnation in relation to the Nativity, which is the suggestion that by thus speaking, we are implying that life begins at birth. Obviously, though, this is not the teaching of the Church (who unequivocally teaches that life begins at conception), so one must be more reticent and simply appreciate that the Nativity provides a tangible way to reflect on the Incarnation, and that is why we meditate on the Incarnation with the Nativity.
Another point to ponder about the Nativity is that it is God's gift of himself to us and (ultimately) his gift of salvation through the Incarnation. Because of this, I think it is good that we imitate God in celebration of that gift by giving gifts to others. This is where I think we can see that a firmer grounding can help us to truly celebrate what is good in the holiday, even despite that this aspect has become secularized and commercialized.
Now, I just said "the Nativity" referring to Christ's birth; however, there is yet more significance in the "Nativity scene," as it is commonly known. This is the portrayal of Jesus, Mary, Joseph, the shepherds, angels, and the wise men at the birth of Christ. Of course, it is great in the obvious significance of recalling the historical events surrounding Jesus' birth. But I think there is a deeper meaning to be garnered from it. Catholics often refer to Jesus, Mary, and Joseph as "the Holy Family." It is in this Holy Family that we see God further blessing the social institution of the family. God chose to not only become human but to become human in the context of a loving family and to grow up within that family. During Christmas, we have a special opportunity to cherish this significance, and it adds theological depth to the common acknowledgment that "Christmas is about family." Without the Catholic tradition of the Holy Family, one loses a rich source of grounding in the value of the family and, especially, why we should celebrate it at Christmas.
Another neat Catholic tradition in relation to the Nativity scene is the practice of not putting Jesus in the manger until Christmas. This is a physical expression of the theological significance of Advent. In fact, having grown up with "complete" Nativity scenes, I find it quite poignant and noticeable when Jesus is not present. It becomes an immediate and regular reminder of the purpose of the Advent season, and it adds an extra happy ritual for Christmas when we finally get to put Jesus in the scene, further emphasizing the meaning of the celebration.
One might think we could stop there. We did, after all, just talk about Christmas, right? Well, another old Catholic tradition is the celebration of the "twelve days of Christmas." These are the days from Christmas to Epiphany, which is the celebration of the finding of Jesus by the wise men. This is the time whence we get the term "Christmastide." It is the source of the song about the twelve days of Christmas, and Shakespeare's "Twelfth Night" was set on the last night of Christmas. During this time, American Catholics celebrate other important holy days (feasts) like the Holy Family (on the 26th), St. John (the Divine, apostle and author of John's gospel), the Holy Innocents (those slaughtered by Herod's henchmen in search of Jesus), Mary (the mother of God, celebrated on New Year's Day), and other saints.
Christmas isn't just a one or two-day affair for Catholics. It starts four weeks before Christmas and ends twelve days after with the Epiphany that the wise men had in finding him. It's not just about the birth of Jesus, at least, saying this does not speak to the profound significance that this holiday holds for the Christian, including a season in which we are called to renewed conversion and repentance to prepare for the coming of our Lord. It's not just about feeling good and having fun with your family; it is an essential celebration of the value of the family as shown through the Holy Family. It's not just about running your feet off, buying gifts for people because that's what everyone does; it's about imitating God and giving of ourselves to others as he did of himself in the Incarnation. Even the paradigm of the giver, Santa Claus, is derived from St. Nicholas (an early Christian bishop) who freely gave of himself to the poor.
We can still enjoy the season with all our fun American traditions, but I think these should be additive to the more essentially Christian significance of the holiday. I'm thankful for becoming Catholic, learning about, and experiencing these traditions that enrich this uniquely Christian holiday. I had many reasons for becoming Catholic. I have many reasons for remaining so, and the Catholic experience of Christmas is just one of the ways in which I think Catholicism offers a richer understanding of the Christian faith and heritage. You don't have to be Catholic to enjoy this holiday as I've described above, but it is certainly easier to do when it is built into the culture and history of your Christian community, and there is something to be said for the shared experience to be had in a communal celebration of these things, which I think can only fully be found in the Catholic Church.
But there is, at least in the Catholic tradition, much more to Christmas than that, and there are, I think, theologically sound reasons to participate in Christmas as it has developed (including the giving of gifts). First of all, the Catholic new year starts, as far as the Church calendar is concerned, with Advent. Advent (an Anglicized form of the Latin adventus, which roughly translates as "coming") starts on the fourth Sunday before Christmas; it is a four-week period of prayer and penance during which we are called to prepare for the coming of Christ. It has a two-fold meaning: first, symbolically, we are preparing for the first coming of Christ at his birth, the Incarnation, which is celebrated at Christ's mass (Christmas); second, really, we are preparing for the second coming of Christ, which all Christians are called to be prepared for.
This is why Advent is a time of prayer and penance, and in times past, both Catholics and Orthodox celebrated it in a way similar to Lent (another penetential season leading up to Easter). In fact, I'm told by an Orthodox friend that they still celebrate Advent with fasting, and it is a more solemn season than Lent is for them. This is why, if you go into a Catholic church during Advent, the altar will be decorated in purple (the color of penance) as well as the priest's vestments; it is also why Advent wreaths use purple candles. Additionally, on the third Sunday of Advent, the color of the vestments and candles are pink to symbolize a heightened sense that Christ is almost here and to lighten the penetential character a bit in celebration of that anticipation.
These days most Catholics (in America at least) seem to have forgotten the penetential aspect of this season; I think it is in part due to the popular American sentiment during this time, which is anything but penetential. It is hard to focus on penance when the culture around you is saturated with the happy-go-lucky atmosphere of "the holidays." Of course, we should never lose site of the joyous culmination of the season, but Catholics should try to remember that in the midst of all this, we are called to prayerful penance in preparation of Christ's coming.
Advent is one way in which I think the Catholic understanding of Christmas is greatly enriched. Of course, the pinnacle of Advent comes with Christmas, when we celebrate the Incarnation of God. There is much in early Christian writings and, especially, in the East about the significance of the Incarnation. Some have seen it as the single most significant event in human history, even more significant than, or at least as significant as, the sacrifice of Christ on the Cross. I don't have time to explore this topic in any depth, but to sum up, there is an ancient saying attributed to St. Athanasius (and/or St. Irenaeus, depending on whom you ask) that speaks to it: "God became man so that we might become God." On its surface, this seems radical, but the essence is that it is by Christ's taking on humanity in the Incarnation that our likeness to God (our being created in the image of God) becomes complete, and it is only through his becoming human that the sacrifice on the Cross can be the source of saving grace for us.
There is so much more to explore, theologically speaking, on this point, but I draw it out briefly to highlight that there is an ancient Christian significance that is lost in the popular, superficial acknowledgement that Christmas is about celebrating Jesus' birth. The Nativity is only important in as much as we consider the grace that became possible through the Incarnation. I should pause here and comment on a misconception that might occur when speaking of the Incarnation in relation to the Nativity, which is the suggestion that by thus speaking, we are implying that life begins at birth. Obviously, though, this is not the teaching of the Church (who unequivocally teaches that life begins at conception), so one must be more reticent and simply appreciate that the Nativity provides a tangible way to reflect on the Incarnation, and that is why we meditate on the Incarnation with the Nativity.
Another point to ponder about the Nativity is that it is God's gift of himself to us and (ultimately) his gift of salvation through the Incarnation. Because of this, I think it is good that we imitate God in celebration of that gift by giving gifts to others. This is where I think we can see that a firmer grounding can help us to truly celebrate what is good in the holiday, even despite that this aspect has become secularized and commercialized.
Now, I just said "the Nativity" referring to Christ's birth; however, there is yet more significance in the "Nativity scene," as it is commonly known. This is the portrayal of Jesus, Mary, Joseph, the shepherds, angels, and the wise men at the birth of Christ. Of course, it is great in the obvious significance of recalling the historical events surrounding Jesus' birth. But I think there is a deeper meaning to be garnered from it. Catholics often refer to Jesus, Mary, and Joseph as "the Holy Family." It is in this Holy Family that we see God further blessing the social institution of the family. God chose to not only become human but to become human in the context of a loving family and to grow up within that family. During Christmas, we have a special opportunity to cherish this significance, and it adds theological depth to the common acknowledgment that "Christmas is about family." Without the Catholic tradition of the Holy Family, one loses a rich source of grounding in the value of the family and, especially, why we should celebrate it at Christmas.
Another neat Catholic tradition in relation to the Nativity scene is the practice of not putting Jesus in the manger until Christmas. This is a physical expression of the theological significance of Advent. In fact, having grown up with "complete" Nativity scenes, I find it quite poignant and noticeable when Jesus is not present. It becomes an immediate and regular reminder of the purpose of the Advent season, and it adds an extra happy ritual for Christmas when we finally get to put Jesus in the scene, further emphasizing the meaning of the celebration.
One might think we could stop there. We did, after all, just talk about Christmas, right? Well, another old Catholic tradition is the celebration of the "twelve days of Christmas." These are the days from Christmas to Epiphany, which is the celebration of the finding of Jesus by the wise men. This is the time whence we get the term "Christmastide." It is the source of the song about the twelve days of Christmas, and Shakespeare's "Twelfth Night" was set on the last night of Christmas. During this time, American Catholics celebrate other important holy days (feasts) like the Holy Family (on the 26th), St. John (the Divine, apostle and author of John's gospel), the Holy Innocents (those slaughtered by Herod's henchmen in search of Jesus), Mary (the mother of God, celebrated on New Year's Day), and other saints.
Christmas isn't just a one or two-day affair for Catholics. It starts four weeks before Christmas and ends twelve days after with the Epiphany that the wise men had in finding him. It's not just about the birth of Jesus, at least, saying this does not speak to the profound significance that this holiday holds for the Christian, including a season in which we are called to renewed conversion and repentance to prepare for the coming of our Lord. It's not just about feeling good and having fun with your family; it is an essential celebration of the value of the family as shown through the Holy Family. It's not just about running your feet off, buying gifts for people because that's what everyone does; it's about imitating God and giving of ourselves to others as he did of himself in the Incarnation. Even the paradigm of the giver, Santa Claus, is derived from St. Nicholas (an early Christian bishop) who freely gave of himself to the poor.
We can still enjoy the season with all our fun American traditions, but I think these should be additive to the more essentially Christian significance of the holiday. I'm thankful for becoming Catholic, learning about, and experiencing these traditions that enrich this uniquely Christian holiday. I had many reasons for becoming Catholic. I have many reasons for remaining so, and the Catholic experience of Christmas is just one of the ways in which I think Catholicism offers a richer understanding of the Christian faith and heritage. You don't have to be Catholic to enjoy this holiday as I've described above, but it is certainly easier to do when it is built into the culture and history of your Christian community, and there is something to be said for the shared experience to be had in a communal celebration of these things, which I think can only fully be found in the Catholic Church.
txbondsman
New member
Gymgurl said:
does this have Clif's notes? man...
I could care less what they say unless it is oh xyz in your purchase is less then yeah that is great other then that eh whatever.
patsfan1379
New member
War on Christmas
War on the Middle Class
War on Drugs
War on Teen Pregnancy
Why is everything so extreme?
Blah blah blah blah
Wars loose their luster and impact if their thrown around
War on the Middle Class
War on Drugs
War on Teen Pregnancy
Why is everything so extreme?
Blah blah blah blah
Wars loose their luster and impact if their thrown around
patsfan1379
New member
superdave said:
Bill O' Reilly declares a war on something weekly.
Culture War
blah blah
Why does this still confuse me?javaguru said:
that is for saying cause I am Canadian beat ya too it smarty pants 
digimon7068
New member
javaguru said:
no. . .that shit starts around thanksgiving. . .so i just figure it's a catchall phrase. . .kind of like "have a nice day", when you really want to say "go fuck yourself". . .
verry much truth to this, broheimjavaguru said:
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