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The Truth About Post Cycle Therapy

Nelson Montana

Chairman of Board
Chairman Member
Without getting into a long dissertation, I'll get right to the point.

For the most part, what many people regard as PCT... is an illusion.

Fact: HCG is not a recovery drug.

HCG can be useful in getting the testicles out of an atrophied state. This is advantageous from both a cosmetic and psychological standpoint and it may help in allowing them to more quickly function normally. BUT, excessive HCG use can also be supressive and chronic use will actually delay recuperation. After extensive experimentation I am also of the contention that far less HCG is necessary than what is often prescribed. People have been using dosages recommended to induce pregnancy. 500 IU.s for two days is usually enough to correct atrophy. Less is better than more.

Fact: Nolvadex is site specific -- therefore, very limited.

The stuff is good (not great) for preventing gyno. If you're super prone to gyno, it's good to have on hand. But it's no guarantee. It's also a lousy anti-e. And as far as it helping in recuperation, well, I'm just not convinced. It lowers IGF. It hinders gains if used during a cycle. It's also a dick killer for a lot of guys. It seems to me that if you don't get gyno during a cycle, using Nolva afterward is closing the barn door after the horse ran away. And of course, I have to bring up the fact that in the 60's and early 70's nolva didn't exist, and nobody had gyno. People have to understand that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Be judicious in your usage. Don't fuck yourself up and expect a drug to fix everything. At any rate, Nolva ain't it.


Fact: I was WRONG!!!

Well, kinda. I used to think that Proviron was the best choice as an anti-e because it helped with libido at the end of a cycle, had few side effects and lowered SHBG. But Proviron is a bit more suppressive than I realized and the other problems are easily corrected with the use of "Unleashed".

As anti-aromatases go, I believe low dose Arimidex is the best bet. BUT BE CAREFUL. A-dex is powerful and can lower e too much (which is what I didn't like about it before). 1/4 mg EOD is usually plenty, so it really isn't that expensive considering how little you need.

A-dex isn't a great recovery drug though. Some people will argue it's useless PC, but there's always a chance for a disfavorable T/e ratio so I do believe it can be useful PC.

Fact: Have I forgotten to mention...CLOMID SUCKS ASS!!!

(Please, dont post any of those same 4 studies that everyone posts that's supposed to prove Clomid works.)

Okay, anyone familiar with my work knows this is an ongoing theme with me. For the record, Clomid does help some people. (Even though in some cases I think it really doesn't do anything, they just think it does. But I'll give them the benefit of the doubt). The thing is, Clomid is an estrogen and whenever you take it you have to hope it will occupy receptor sites that otherwise would be taken up with aromatized estrones. That is REALLY, REALLY chancy. If it backfires, you wind up feeling like a 12 year old girl with her first period. And when you cum, it's like, HERE IT IS! HERE IT IS..........drip.

Some people claim increased ejaculate from Clomid but I feel that's wishful thinking or maybe they're among the lucky ones. At any rate, CLomid may actually delay recovery.


Fact: Bridges are just extensions of a cycle.

I have to laugh when people say they work. Yeah, "Methadone" works for heroin addicts too. You're just replacing one drug with another! If you bridge, you're suppressed, not recovered.


Fact: Time heals all wounds.


When you come right down to it, time is what brings about recovery, no matter what you use. And what's most important is how you utilize that time with proper rest, proper training, proper eating and proper supplementation.

WARNING!!! SHAMELESS PRODUCT PLUG STRAIGHT AHEAD!!!


(I'll make it quick)

Seriously, this is why I developed "POST-CYCLE" www.proteinfactory.com It isn't a cure. It isn't a replacement for medical attention. But it will cover the bases to help you recover faster. Here's why:

Five ingredients to clean and detoxfy the liver.

Three ingredients to normalize estrogen levels.

Four ingredients to boost libido.

And a nice combo of ingredients to prevent impotence.

That's a pretty good deal IMO.

Okay, commercials over.


At any rate,

PCT should not be an afterthought. What good is gaining 20 pounds if you're just going to lose them a month later? Don't just look forward to your next cycle, look past it. What will you keep at the end of it all? And at the end of it all, that's all that matters.
 
hCG can be a good recovery promoting drug if used correctly. I agree that most people recomend too much for two long. Yes, used that way it is very supressive. However, used correctly it effectively "primes the pump" so to speak.


Clomid is by no means a wonder drug, but don't sink to mocking it with statements like "those same 4 studies that everyone posts that's supposed to prove Clomid works." Its restorative effect in hypogonadal men is well established and it is used frequently in clinical settings.
 
Hey, SM an I agree! STOP THE PRESSES!!!

Actually, Clomid is not as well researched for PCT as many people think. If you took everyone that was monitored in every case study ever conducted it would be under 50 people.

I'm not sure what clinical research you're referring to but the popular ones are very flawed - either the patients were old or chronic users or the therapy lasted for months (in which case the subject would recover anyway). And keep in mind, these studies are TRYING to prove something. My own personal (informal) study set out to see who was negitively effected by Clomid and the result was about 40% -- yet, I don't see any "university studies" saying that. That doesnt mean it isn't true.

One other thing that is actually in the Clomid literature that I forgot to mention was the possibity of damage to the eyes.

I'm glad you're at least willing to say that Clomid is no wonder drug. For years everyone thought that they can do whatever they wanted and the Clomid would fix everything.
 
Interesting points made, though I am not certain why you would say clomid is usless if there are so many bodybuilders saying that it can be beneficial post-cycle when test production is non-existant. There must be SOME reason why it is so heavily incorporated into a PCT regime? Then again everyone is entitled to an opinion about it.

Anyways, I like the way Post-Cycle combines a bunch of detoxifying agents and libido aids to help with recovery, I may give it a go this time around. Can you also explain to me what you have developed "Unleashed" with, and how it differs from Post-Cycle? thanks bro
 
Nighthawkk said:
Interesting points made, though I am not certain why you would say clomid is usless if there are so many bodybuilders saying that it can be beneficial post-cycle when test production is non-existant. There must be SOME reason why it is so heavily incorporated into a PCT regime? Then again everyone is entitled to an opinion about it.

Anyways, I like the way Post-Cycle combines a bunch of detoxifying agents and libido aids to help with recovery, I may give it a go this time around. Can you also explain to me what you have developed "Unleashed" with, and how it differs from Post-Cycle? thanks bro


Unleashed lowers SHBG therfore it hightens available testosterone. The beauty of it is, it allows you to use more of your own T without raising total T, so there's no supression, unlike pro-hormones or pro-steroids.

Unleashed can be used anytime, on or off cycle, but for PCT it works similarly to Provion when combined with "POST-CYCLE" -- without the side effects.
 
Who was the first documented BB'er to get gyno anyway? He musta felt like a real ass.
 
Nolva is working well for me. I've been through the ball pain which is good - means my balls are coming back, and I can see this.

I do not believe that Nolva is hindering my sex drive.

The ball pain got substantially stronger when going from 30mg to 50mg Nolva ED. I also noticed that my sex drive increased at this time. I'm goint to stay at 50mg for a while.

As discussed in the sticky on the anabolics board, Nolva has a positive effect on cholesterol.

Nolva prevents E from attaching to E receptors, so the high levels of E that are circulating post-cycle will not keep you shut down (E is supressive).

Fact - Nolva lowers IGF-1. Too bad. I need my T levels back right now, so I'll accept the lower IGF-1 for a few weeks.
 
Nelson, I have been using " Post Cycle" on and off to try and see what it will do for me. I can say that after 4 separate trials, after couple doses, nuts plump up real big. Works every time! I'm guessing it has to do with the slight estrogen drop when using PC. More feedback to come.
 
chordz said:
Nelson, I have been using " Post Cycle" on and off to try and see what it will do for me. I can say that after 4 separate trials, after couple doses, nuts plump up real big. Works every time! I'm guessing it has to do with the slight estrogen drop when using PC. More feedback to come.

It's funny you say that. I too, notice the "ball plumping effect" of Post- Cycle. A-dex gives it to me too which makes me think that managing e may stave off athropy though I'm not sure how or why. ( A few theories though). I'm on HRT and I never really experience nut shrinkage.

Dal Tone: Great question! Yeah, the dude must have been like, "WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS?!?!?" I think the earliest case I've seen is when Franco won the Olympia. (79?) I guess he was willing to do whatever it took to win. (and he didn't deserve the win anyway).
 
Yep, had to have been Franco at the 81 O. How sad was that? He looked good, but wasn't the best, and wasn't at his own best either.

While on the subject of nasty side effects, who was the first with a gh gut? I would go with Lou Ferrigno when he made his come back. Even Dorian had a small waist then, and Lee was just leaving. I read that Lou was using thousands a week in gh, roids and slin to get back into shape, and bigger than ever for his comeback. I've even read about calf implants. Who knows if any of it's true, but I do remember in Stand Tall he was the only one at the first Masters O with a gut, and a blocky waist. It was a sad site to see, as he had looked so incredible in Pumping Iron, and in the later Hulk shows.
 
****************************
It seems to me that if you don't get gyno during a cycle, using Nolva afterward is closing the barn door after the horse ran away. And of course, I have to bring up the fact that in the 60's and early 70's nolva didn't exist, and nobody had gyno. People have to understand that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Be judicious in your usage. Don't fuck yourself up and expect a drug to fix everything.
****************************

this is common sense & i agree.
Bodybuilders back then had a great yet reasonable shape year round
 
Don't use nolva/hcg use post-cycle and unleashed. Don't use proviron use unleashed.

You have completely lost your mind, what little you had. You would take the chance with someone crashing coming off a cycle and lie just to make a buck? WTF is wrong with you. Some people can come off a cycle with no PCT and they will do fine with this crap but the people who really need it are going to crash, I have reposted their posts here already, and you just continue doing this.
You are a scammer of the worst kind. It's just pathetic. I didn't realize until tonight you were still doing this. God you make me sick.
 
ulter said:
Don't use nolva/hcg use post-cycle and unleashed. Don't use proviron use unleashed.

You have completely lost your mind, what little you had. You would take the chance with someone crashing coming off a cycle and lie just to make a buck? WTF is wrong with you. Some people can come off a cycle with no PCT and they will do fine with this crap but the people who really need it are going to crash, I have reposted their posts here already, and you just continue doing this.
You are a scammer of the worst kind. It's just pathetic. I didn't realize until tonight you were still doing this. God you make me sick.

First of all, you're full of shit. Second of all, why are you being such a dick?

Let's take your issues one by one so we can disect how off base you are.

One:I never made that first statement you posted. I don't know who did, or why you're attributing it to me. If you have a point, make it. But don't fabricate stories.

Two:Petulant little insults about how I have a little mind is just childish bullshit and not tolerated here. Give your argument. Stete your opinion. But try and stick to the facts.

Three:Your claim that I don't care about peoples health just to make a buck is very offensive to me. I have probably promoted the "health" issue more than anyone here. And not for nothing, I would never sell half the crap that you do. But that's another issue.

Four: Your claim that I'm telling people not to use PCT is all worng. If anthing I was warning people that no PC is a sure fire thing and that they should be careul. Each PC drug has its limitations. Re-read what I said. You can get it. I also never said that any of the supplements are all you need -- just that they can help. Watch what you say before saying it. Don't put words in my mouth. I don't like that.

Five: I'm a scammer? I'm pathetic? I make you sick? I got three words for you ulter. "Go fuck yourself."


I don't know what this guys problem is. Maybe he's afraid that Protein Factory is going to take business away from him. Maybe he just isn't bright enough to comprehend what I wrote. I would be more than happy to discuss it, but when someone mindlessly starts spewing insults based on misinterpretations, it's obvious he isn't being very logical.



It never fails. It's always the one with the least information that has the most adament opinion. It's the guy who never read my books who is the most critical of them. And now, ulter decides to refuse to accept what hundreds of people have been saying -- these products work. They help. They're good. Oh no. He'll have none of that. He doesn't want to believe it, so he wont. So he's going to pretend to be looking out for the consumer when in fact, he just doesn't want anyone buying a competitors product. And he'll twist the facts to do it. That sucks man. It's weak. It's unprofessional. You should be ashamed of yourself.
 
Last edited:
Ah the old he's afraid of competition post. I don't sell a single product sold by protein factory. So, oh well, there goes that motive.
I am posting again because you continue to lead people to believe these product work for purposes they don't and it endangers the recovery of those who think they are cheaper PCT substitutes. How do I know you're still doing it? I am getting posts on AF and emails asking if what you're saying is true. I saw you do it again on another board just like you do here.

I like that "I wouldn't sell half the crap you do"
Nelson you can't spell half the supps we sell. Unfortunately your pharmacist was you.
 
ulter said:
Ah the old he's afraid of competition post. I don't sell a single product sold by protein factory. So, oh well, there goes that motive.
I am posting again because you continue to lead people to believe these product work for purposes they don't and it endangers the recovery of those who think they are cheaper PCT substitutes. How do I know you're still doing it? I am getting posts on AF and emails asking if what you're saying is true. I saw you do it again on another board just like you do here.

I like that "I wouldn't sell half the crap you do"
Nelson you can't spell half the supps we sell. Unfortunately your pharmacist was you.


Well, I guess you just want to be a prick then. Maybe it's ego. But who do you think you're kidding? You didn't design any of those products. You're a salesman. But, whatever. That's not the point.

I will say, you got balls. Your're accusing me of going on other boards when all I'm doing to responding to your lies and accusations.

Bottom line: You have no idea how these produts work. You have no idea how they're used. You refuse to believe the hundreds of people who are getting good results. Sure, you can say anyone that got good results may have had the same results without the supps. Well, they very likely may have gotten the same results without Nolva, or Clomid. The whole point of PCT is to take every precaution. And the supps have definetely been helping. That really burns you up, doesn't it?

Stop being a little cunt about this ulter. Take care of your own business. Attempting to hurt another mans business out of spite, jealousy or fear is the slimiest of low class tactics. All it does is reflect badly on you and your company.


And BTW: Don't bother posting the same two posts from a couple of guys wo didn't like the products. I don't post the dozens of threads from people who think they're great, nor do I post the dozens of threads of people who think AF store stuff sucks.

Not everyone is going to do PC correctly. How many people have taken drugs and not recovered? PLENTY. There are a lot of factors at play here. Unleashed and Post-Cycle are the best things to come along for the steroid using athlete in years. Now just go back to work on your knock- off version and stop whinning like a little bitch.
 
Well, i must agree some people i know had troubles with prescription PCT.
A few others claim they do well WITHOUT PCT.
I think the only people to blame in case of problems are the same people who opted out of PRESCRIPTION/HORMONAL PCT onto OTC/non hormonal PCT ( which may work fine for some, especially on short cycles like 2-3 weeks ).
Only idiots would mistake an OTC supplement for a prescription item ( unless we're talking about 2/3 prohormones actually said to be held as a prescription elsewhere ).
As brought up elsewhere, today's plague is high dosages & people playing mad kitchen scientists...
What's worst, not even by far looking like they are.
Ever noticed how many idiots go around hinting they're mr.O undercover, thus suggesting to "inject" rip-off-or-not-so-rip-off supplements, without ever mentioning what unchecked for endotoxins might do?
 
This was from this morning, it's hysterical.

First the post by someone who is using Post-Cycle.

ntnfdvd
Novice

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Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 51
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I am using Post-Cycle and Unleashed right now after my first cycle. I am also using Nolva and used HCG throughout. I am 41 years old and have had no problems with libido or erections. I gained 23 lbs on a test only cycle and have lost only 5 so far and my strenght is way up. I finished my cycled about 5 weeks ago so I think problems would have appeared by now but all is good.

Then Nelson

Nelson Montana
Community Veteran
Bodybuilding Author

Registered: Jun 2003
Posts: 353
Posts Per Day: 1.19

Now, this guy is doing it right. Glad to hear it bro.

____________________________________________________________

So now he is taking credit for the guys recovery, he's saying this guy is doing it right, even though it goes against his own posting at the top of this thread.

Fact: HCG is not a recovery drug.
Fact: Nolvadex is site specific -- therefore, very limited.

Even the most casual observer will notice that this man ntnfdvd has only been off 5 weeks and probably wouldn't notice much in terms of lost gains at this point. But Nelson's tells him he's keeping his gains because of these supps.

See the pattern here?
 
PCT in any shape or form is highly overrated... the biggest factor is time... time on the juice (+dose)... and time off the juice.

this is proved by ham2's first two sentences.
 
***************
PCT in any shape or form is highly overrated... the biggest factor is time... time on the juice (+dose)... and time off the juice.
***************

With time, most sides do subside ( unless you juiced like a race horse in training and took even the donkey's allowance ).

As pointed out elsewhere A CONTRARIO, there are MILLIONS of steroid (ab)users today, yet just dozens of pro's.
Horse dosages do nothing & pro's are just big pelouches.

I have read some of what like Pearl & Grimek etc had to say.
Juice was popular since the late 50's, yet i see no mention of PCT.
They used juice just to get an extra edge.

Also, in today's juice boards the most common item is: how can i KEEP the (perhaps not so amazing ) gains out of my elephant juice (ab)use?
W H A T?!
Ever heard Reeves, Scott up to Arnold deal with THAT kind of problem?
Some mass yet comes&goes but today we're talking about people who are going down to ground zero.

An example:
Arnold has set a standard with Conan the barbarian, Terminator etc; Reeves did before him with his Ercules.
Now one Arnold's rip-offs were two butt faced twins ( the Paul twins ), who starred a poor "barbarians" movie & looked like Ultimate Warrior but with three times the gear X 2.
Did they ever set a standard besides having me roll on floor laughing?
And let's not talk training or acting skills because the first Terminator & Conan had almost no "acting" ( see Al Pacino under "acting" ) & i bet the butt faced had barbbells & dumbbells at their gym.
 
ulter said:
This was from this morning, it's hysterical.

First the post by someone who is using Post-Cycle.

ntnfdvd
Novice

User Information
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 51
Posts Per Day: 0.36

I am using Post-Cycle and Unleashed right now after my first cycle. I am also using Nolva and used HCG throughout. I am 41 years old and have had no problems with libido or erections. I gained 23 lbs on a test only cycle and have lost only 5 so far and my strenght is way up. I finished my cycled about 5 weeks ago so I think problems would have appeared by now but all is good.

Then Nelson

Nelson Montana
Community Veteran
Bodybuilding Author

Registered: Jun 2003
Posts: 353
Posts Per Day: 1.19

Now, this guy is doing it right. Glad to hear it bro.

____________________________________________________________

So now he is taking credit for the guys recovery, he's saying this guy is doing it right, even though it goes against his own posting at the top of this thread.

Fact: HCG is not a recovery drug.
Fact: Nolvadex is site specific -- therefore, very limited.

Even the most casual observer will notice that this man ntnfdvd has only been off 5 weeks and probably wouldn't notice much in terms of lost gains at this point. But Nelson's tells him he's keeping his gains because of these supps.

See the pattern here?




Yes, the patteren is very clear. You deleted the rest of my post so you could take what I said out of context and then throw in your own projection.

Can't you just accept that someone says the supps helped them? God, you're such a dick.
 
Being an asshole is never good for business. It gives you a bad image. Noone likes an asshole. Don't be an asshole.

:no-asshole:
;)
 
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