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ghettostudmuffin
New member
This is a VERY long post.
The cliff notes version of this is about bulking in the presence of high calories and how that relates to amount of gear used. That said I believe it will be a decent read for many people.
I've been a member of EF for close to 7 years now.
I've been lifting weights off and on for 17 years. I've trained using different styles ranging from classic high volume bodybuilding traing to Mentzer uber low volume/low frequency lifting.
I consider myself to be above average in ability to gain strength and size/bodyweight, but I definitely am not delusional in thinking I have great genetics for bodybuilding nor that I am that far above average having trained with and known some literal genetic freaks as well as having known lot's of guys with really good genetics(but, not quite freaks).
I peruse this forum on a daily basis and I see new guys starting up on roids and guys using X dosages and combinations of roids and I feel I need to make something really clear so that new guys and guys that don't know better will benefit from what I have to say.
I am by no means a vet compared to many guys on this board both in training time or how many cycles I have under my belt, but one thing I feel I have nailed down pat is how to gain strength and size.
I see new guys using 500mg test, 300 deca or eq or even tren and an oral and it blows my mind. Many of these guys are under 200lbs. Even alot of vet guys blow my mind with the amount of gear they use for their size.
Steroids are an addition to hard training, eating and sleeping. They are not the primary gains producer. Alot of people seem to have this backwards.
Steroids increase protein synthesis so you use protein more efficiently and can consume greater quantities of it. Steroids also affect the central nervous system which is always impacted to a certain extent from any lifting, but more so the greater the relative intensity of the exercise as well as how close your lifts are to your 1 rep max.
From my own personal experience I believe steroids significantly enhance the nervous system, but even more importantly they greatly increase how quickly your nervous system reduces fatigue buildup thereby allowing you to both train harder, but for significantly longer periods of time as in making linear gains for months vs weeks in many cases.
Regardless of how much gear you use it's all for nothing if the raw materials aren't there to utilize the chemicals to their fullest.
I'm talking about this wonder drug that is incredibly anabolic. It's above and beyond all others and reigns king of the anabolic jungle.
I'm talking about Food-All. That's right. Food-All. We eat it every day. For ease of typing I'll just shorten this to Food.
Once you have stimulated the body in the gym the number one factor in determining whether you get bigger or stronger is food. This is provided you are using a sound training program and are pushing for gains.
I actually rate food over sleep provided sleep is "adequate". Everyone's idea of an adequate amount of sleep is different, but working a hard construction job I averaged 6 hours sleep a night and still gained extremely well provided my food intake was high enough to promote weight gain. 5 hours or 7 hours may be your minimum. Any amount of sleep above your minimum functioning requirement is a bonus and ideally you would sleep 2-3 hours more than that every day to really maximize recovery, but that;s it's own subject.
Suffice it to say, if sleep is adequate food is the #1 priority provided training is in proper order.
So many guys think more anabolics=more gains. This is true, but I think alot of guys really need to reassess this line of thinking. There are exceptions to this and I believe that a well muscled guy with low bodyfat will eventually require more anabolics to get bigger while staying lean, but this is almost opposite of ideal imo. What I mean by this is that guys with quite low bodyfat and high level of muscle mass are not in an ideal anabolic enviroment created from high food intake thus they require higher amounts of anabolics to get the results they want. They consume roughly only enough calories to sustain their current mass, bodyfat % and muscle mass amount.
Anabolics work best in the presence of a high caloric intake and an excess of protein. The two go hand in hand. This is why it is almost impossible not to make gains when natural if you are eating to bulk because you are always supplying the nutrients needing to build and repair tissue in excess and fund all the chemical processes going on in your body.
Not to brag by I will use myself as an example. I started training again about 8.5 months ago after over a year off. Having done multiple cycles in the past and having trained off an on many times and being used to building up again from scratch I started off using 500mg sustanon every week.
I started out weighing about 200lbs in gym clothes. My previous highest bodyweight ever had been 238lbs at 5'8.5" while on 500mg test ew. In these 8.5 months I have been on for about 6 of them. I took a short time off between my first use and when I restarted. I would not necessarily recommend this to anyone, but having run pct many times and having coming off without pct I have some idea what is going on. Not making excuses, merely providing some background.
In 8.5 months I now weight 250lbs. That's an average gain of over 6lbs per month. In reality though I started using creatine as well and I tracked my weight gain from the moment I started using and account for about 6lbs of water weight gained from it. That drops my gain down to 44lbs from food and test alone. I have gained bodyfat since I started. I don't look my best, but all said and done I don't look too bad. If even only half the weight gained is muscle/muscle byproduct that is 22lbs. Over 8.5 months that's an average gain of just under 3 pounds muscle per month. I have actually been sitting at 250lbs now for about 4-5 weeks so it's closer to 4lbs a month. IT could be a little higher because though I have gained a solid amount of bodyfat I know I have gained more muscle than fat.
This was done on no more than 500mg sustanon a week. For the past 6 weeks or so I have been running 375mg ew to see what would happen. I am still making consistent strength gains in the gym and by that I mean weekly increases.
It should be noted that I was off for nearly 2.5 months between uses over the previous 7.5 months of weight gain and working at a terrible sweat shop of a job actually dropped down to 222lbs from 236lbs between cycles. So the majority of my weight gain occured over about 5.5 months time. I'm guessing that's roughly equivalent to around 4.5lbs per month of muscular bodyweight gained.
It could be said that I was regaining previous size as well as previous enhanced size and that actually totally new gain is around 12lbs past my previous peak bodyweight.
In 8.5 months time my 3 rep max on squats has gone up 220lbs and my 5x5 bench weight 110lbs.
This is starting to look like an advertisement for my gains so I'll stop right there. My point is to show what can be done on decent genetics, heavy lifting and fairly low gear use when a high caloric surplus is present.
The extra testosterone has allowed for pretty much non-stop gains over this time period because fatigue build up from heavy training is rapidly diminished and tissue build up is np because all the protein I ingest is utilized extremely efficiently.
The food was more important than the testosterone. I believe I could have made 80% of the gains I have made drug free, but it has allowed me to make more consistent gains because the chance of plateau'ing is greatly reduced as I have now said many times in the presence of a solid training program and plentiful food intake.
Unless you are cutting and are significantly more muscled than your average gym lifter you probably require less anabolic use than you think you do.
A really good example of this is Lee Priest. Now before you go foaming at the mouth let me just say I think there is a 50/50 truth to what he says about his anabolic use.
Considering the guy is probably 5'2" at best it seems reasonable he does not require as much anabolics as taller guys. While I believe his competition drug usage he has posted is horseshit, I do believe that what he has talked about in the off season is partially true. He basically says he comes off and has np gaining because he eats a shit load. Granted he gets fattened up alot, but that part of the process of real old school bulking. To gain a significant amount of muscle mass in a relatively short time you will almost always gain a significant amount of bodyfat as well.
While I do not believe Lee Priest comes off completely during the off season, considering his relatively small stature(minus the huge muscles) I do believe he can probably bulk np on 500mg test ew during the offseason with a high calorie/high protein diet of Food-All.
It seems alot of guys nowadays are so worried about their gym tan and 6 pack that the thought of gaining any bodyfat while getting bigger is a frightening thought. One great thing about anabolics is that in the presence of a calorie surplus you require less to gain, but in the presence of a caloric deficiency such as when cutting it then becomes more beneficial to use abit more.
The old school bodybuilders like Arnold, Frank, Draper etc only used during contest prep and then came off. Anyone that thinks otherwise clearly never saw them out of contest shape. Arnold was a very good example of how dramatically anabolics effected the look of his body. They lost bodyfat while prepping for the contest and gained muscle mass at the same time, but 90% of their body was already built up from the basic training any way.
Many current pro level bodybuilders have admitted that after a certain point no level of anabolic would promote increased gains until their food intake went up. The amount of whole food many pro bodybuilders eat boggles my mind. I cannot imagine eating the equivalent of 12-14 chicken breasts or more in meat a day, cups upon cups of rice, veggies etc all day long.
So the next time you run a cycle if your goal is to get bigger and stronger maybe reconsider how much gear you actually need to accomplish this and increase your caloric intake accordingly.
Thanks for reading.
The cliff notes version of this is about bulking in the presence of high calories and how that relates to amount of gear used. That said I believe it will be a decent read for many people.
I've been a member of EF for close to 7 years now.
I've been lifting weights off and on for 17 years. I've trained using different styles ranging from classic high volume bodybuilding traing to Mentzer uber low volume/low frequency lifting.
I consider myself to be above average in ability to gain strength and size/bodyweight, but I definitely am not delusional in thinking I have great genetics for bodybuilding nor that I am that far above average having trained with and known some literal genetic freaks as well as having known lot's of guys with really good genetics(but, not quite freaks).
I peruse this forum on a daily basis and I see new guys starting up on roids and guys using X dosages and combinations of roids and I feel I need to make something really clear so that new guys and guys that don't know better will benefit from what I have to say.
I am by no means a vet compared to many guys on this board both in training time or how many cycles I have under my belt, but one thing I feel I have nailed down pat is how to gain strength and size.
I see new guys using 500mg test, 300 deca or eq or even tren and an oral and it blows my mind. Many of these guys are under 200lbs. Even alot of vet guys blow my mind with the amount of gear they use for their size.
Steroids are an addition to hard training, eating and sleeping. They are not the primary gains producer. Alot of people seem to have this backwards.
Steroids increase protein synthesis so you use protein more efficiently and can consume greater quantities of it. Steroids also affect the central nervous system which is always impacted to a certain extent from any lifting, but more so the greater the relative intensity of the exercise as well as how close your lifts are to your 1 rep max.
From my own personal experience I believe steroids significantly enhance the nervous system, but even more importantly they greatly increase how quickly your nervous system reduces fatigue buildup thereby allowing you to both train harder, but for significantly longer periods of time as in making linear gains for months vs weeks in many cases.
Regardless of how much gear you use it's all for nothing if the raw materials aren't there to utilize the chemicals to their fullest.
I'm talking about this wonder drug that is incredibly anabolic. It's above and beyond all others and reigns king of the anabolic jungle.
I'm talking about Food-All. That's right. Food-All. We eat it every day. For ease of typing I'll just shorten this to Food.
Once you have stimulated the body in the gym the number one factor in determining whether you get bigger or stronger is food. This is provided you are using a sound training program and are pushing for gains.
I actually rate food over sleep provided sleep is "adequate". Everyone's idea of an adequate amount of sleep is different, but working a hard construction job I averaged 6 hours sleep a night and still gained extremely well provided my food intake was high enough to promote weight gain. 5 hours or 7 hours may be your minimum. Any amount of sleep above your minimum functioning requirement is a bonus and ideally you would sleep 2-3 hours more than that every day to really maximize recovery, but that;s it's own subject.
Suffice it to say, if sleep is adequate food is the #1 priority provided training is in proper order.
So many guys think more anabolics=more gains. This is true, but I think alot of guys really need to reassess this line of thinking. There are exceptions to this and I believe that a well muscled guy with low bodyfat will eventually require more anabolics to get bigger while staying lean, but this is almost opposite of ideal imo. What I mean by this is that guys with quite low bodyfat and high level of muscle mass are not in an ideal anabolic enviroment created from high food intake thus they require higher amounts of anabolics to get the results they want. They consume roughly only enough calories to sustain their current mass, bodyfat % and muscle mass amount.
Anabolics work best in the presence of a high caloric intake and an excess of protein. The two go hand in hand. This is why it is almost impossible not to make gains when natural if you are eating to bulk because you are always supplying the nutrients needing to build and repair tissue in excess and fund all the chemical processes going on in your body.
Not to brag by I will use myself as an example. I started training again about 8.5 months ago after over a year off. Having done multiple cycles in the past and having trained off an on many times and being used to building up again from scratch I started off using 500mg sustanon every week.
I started out weighing about 200lbs in gym clothes. My previous highest bodyweight ever had been 238lbs at 5'8.5" while on 500mg test ew. In these 8.5 months I have been on for about 6 of them. I took a short time off between my first use and when I restarted. I would not necessarily recommend this to anyone, but having run pct many times and having coming off without pct I have some idea what is going on. Not making excuses, merely providing some background.
In 8.5 months I now weight 250lbs. That's an average gain of over 6lbs per month. In reality though I started using creatine as well and I tracked my weight gain from the moment I started using and account for about 6lbs of water weight gained from it. That drops my gain down to 44lbs from food and test alone. I have gained bodyfat since I started. I don't look my best, but all said and done I don't look too bad. If even only half the weight gained is muscle/muscle byproduct that is 22lbs. Over 8.5 months that's an average gain of just under 3 pounds muscle per month. I have actually been sitting at 250lbs now for about 4-5 weeks so it's closer to 4lbs a month. IT could be a little higher because though I have gained a solid amount of bodyfat I know I have gained more muscle than fat.
This was done on no more than 500mg sustanon a week. For the past 6 weeks or so I have been running 375mg ew to see what would happen. I am still making consistent strength gains in the gym and by that I mean weekly increases.
It should be noted that I was off for nearly 2.5 months between uses over the previous 7.5 months of weight gain and working at a terrible sweat shop of a job actually dropped down to 222lbs from 236lbs between cycles. So the majority of my weight gain occured over about 5.5 months time. I'm guessing that's roughly equivalent to around 4.5lbs per month of muscular bodyweight gained.
It could be said that I was regaining previous size as well as previous enhanced size and that actually totally new gain is around 12lbs past my previous peak bodyweight.
In 8.5 months time my 3 rep max on squats has gone up 220lbs and my 5x5 bench weight 110lbs.
This is starting to look like an advertisement for my gains so I'll stop right there. My point is to show what can be done on decent genetics, heavy lifting and fairly low gear use when a high caloric surplus is present.
The extra testosterone has allowed for pretty much non-stop gains over this time period because fatigue build up from heavy training is rapidly diminished and tissue build up is np because all the protein I ingest is utilized extremely efficiently.
The food was more important than the testosterone. I believe I could have made 80% of the gains I have made drug free, but it has allowed me to make more consistent gains because the chance of plateau'ing is greatly reduced as I have now said many times in the presence of a solid training program and plentiful food intake.
Unless you are cutting and are significantly more muscled than your average gym lifter you probably require less anabolic use than you think you do.
A really good example of this is Lee Priest. Now before you go foaming at the mouth let me just say I think there is a 50/50 truth to what he says about his anabolic use.
Considering the guy is probably 5'2" at best it seems reasonable he does not require as much anabolics as taller guys. While I believe his competition drug usage he has posted is horseshit, I do believe that what he has talked about in the off season is partially true. He basically says he comes off and has np gaining because he eats a shit load. Granted he gets fattened up alot, but that part of the process of real old school bulking. To gain a significant amount of muscle mass in a relatively short time you will almost always gain a significant amount of bodyfat as well.
While I do not believe Lee Priest comes off completely during the off season, considering his relatively small stature(minus the huge muscles) I do believe he can probably bulk np on 500mg test ew during the offseason with a high calorie/high protein diet of Food-All.
It seems alot of guys nowadays are so worried about their gym tan and 6 pack that the thought of gaining any bodyfat while getting bigger is a frightening thought. One great thing about anabolics is that in the presence of a calorie surplus you require less to gain, but in the presence of a caloric deficiency such as when cutting it then becomes more beneficial to use abit more.
The old school bodybuilders like Arnold, Frank, Draper etc only used during contest prep and then came off. Anyone that thinks otherwise clearly never saw them out of contest shape. Arnold was a very good example of how dramatically anabolics effected the look of his body. They lost bodyfat while prepping for the contest and gained muscle mass at the same time, but 90% of their body was already built up from the basic training any way.
Many current pro level bodybuilders have admitted that after a certain point no level of anabolic would promote increased gains until their food intake went up. The amount of whole food many pro bodybuilders eat boggles my mind. I cannot imagine eating the equivalent of 12-14 chicken breasts or more in meat a day, cups upon cups of rice, veggies etc all day long.
So the next time you run a cycle if your goal is to get bigger and stronger maybe reconsider how much gear you actually need to accomplish this and increase your caloric intake accordingly.
Thanks for reading.
