The Great College Hoax

[Razorguns]

Very good read. College = Get past HR guards and keep up the status quo. Some are slowly figuring out many majors are just b.s. and not worth the ever-increasing skyrocketing cost.

The Great College Hoax - Forbes.com

r

 

[mustang_00]

schools for fools

 

[Razorguns]

schools for fools

skills > pieces of paper.

Most indians who first took your IT jobs never had fancy dancy pieces of paper. But they gladly took the jobs from fat americans who did.

r

 

[redsamurai]

So how do you accrues the skizzaz in this society without going to school? Nobody hires anyone because they "pinky swear" they can do the job. Without that paper or some verifiable experience which also requires some form of paper...........you're a field nigger to people responsible for hiring. Sorry for that word, but that's how they look at you, all bullshit aside. You can do some form of menial labor without a degree....but that's it. Even being a wrench monkey, gotta get some schooling for that. Nobody's just going to hire you and train you on the job.....no way, no how.

 

[Razorguns]

So how do you accrues the skizzaz in this society without going to school? Nobody hires anyone because they "pinky swear" they can do the job. Without that paper or some verifiable experience which also requires some form of paper...........you're a field nigger to people responsible for hiring. Sorry for that word, but that's how they look at you, all bullshit aside. You can do some form of menial labor without a degree....but that's it. Even being a wrench monkey, gotta get some schooling for that. Nobody's just going to hire you and train you on the job.....no way, no how.

If you go to school for a piece of paper, and not learning marketable skills - then you sir are a fool.

And it's those fools that are now being laid off in droves. Companies during recessions keep their needed skilled workers, the others are fat to be trimmed.

I was making 6 figures by 22 and NONE of it had to do with my degree. Degrees just get you past HR for those jobs that have high supply and little demand. A "filter" if you wanna call it. And also the first jobs to go.

r

 

[Stefka]

If you go to school for a piece of paper, and not learning marketable skills - then you sir are a fool.



r

But that article used lawyers as an example. You go to law school to get marketable skills (and to be qualified to sit for the bar). Some people end up with a shit ton of debt, but their starting salaries are high, and their earning capacity is enormous (provided they are on the partner track and don't suck at law).

There is no way that a person making $160,000 a year (the starting salary for big law associates) should have trouble paying off his loans. Dude and his wife were probably spending all of their money on cars and TVs and other status shit, while paying the minimum on their loans and getting raped by the compound interest. R, this is where you're supposed to call them stupid Americans for running up their credit cards and "investing" in a house.

 

[nimbus]

what degree do you hold razor

 

[Razorguns]

There is no way that a person making $160,000 a year (the starting salary for big law associates) should have trouble paying off his loans. Dude and his wife were probably spending all of their money on cars and TVs and other status shit, while paying the minimum on their loans and getting raped by the compound interest. R, this is where you're supposed to call them stupid Americans for running up their credit cards and "investing" in a house.

Word. I am now buying you a beer. None of that coors crap!

r

 

[binö]

what degree do you hold razor

i expect a sarcastic reply and i eagerly await

 

[75th]

So how do you accrues the skizzaz in this society without going to school? Nobody hires anyone because they "pinky swear" they can do the job. Without that paper or some verifiable experience which also requires some form of paper...........you're a field nigger to people responsible for hiring. Sorry for that word, but that's how they look at you, all bullshit aside. You can do some form of menial labor without a degree....but that's it. Even being a wrench monkey, gotta get some schooling for that. Nobody's just going to hire you and train you on the job.....no way, no how.

 

[Razorguns]

what degree do you hold razor

computer science. i got it with my eyes closed. day 1 i could already decompile the operating system into x86 assembly language. how hard could it have been.

marketable skills > paper

r

 

[redsamurai]

how do you prove marketable skills without going through some sort of schooling? I agree that most universities nowadays pump out ninnies that don't know hot to think outside the box. However, you're not going to roll up on a finance company sporting only work you did for your parents mom and pop small business........and expect that they'll hire you without that paper. Facts still are that in almost any field, you've got to have that paper or you're NOTHING. Now if you want to work for yourself, different story. But then someone along the way is going to have to take you under their wing and train you in some respect.

If you go to school for a piece of paper, and not learning marketable skills - then you sir are a fool.

And it's those fools that are now being laid off in droves. Companies during recessions keep their needed skilled workers, the others are fat to be trimmed.

I was making 6 figures by 22 and NONE of it had to do with my degree. Degrees just get you past HR for those jobs that have high supply and little demand. A "filter" if you wanna call it. And also the first jobs to go.

r

 

[Stefka]

how do you prove marketable skills without going through some sort of schooling? I agree that most universities nowadays pump out ninnies that don't know hot to think outside the box. However, you're not going to roll up on a finance company sporting only work you did for your parents mom and pop small business........and expect that they'll hire you without that paper. Facts still are that in almost any field, you've got to have that paper or you're NOTHING. Now if you want to work for yourself, different story. But then someone along the way is going to have to take you under their wing and train you in some respect.

Getting an undergrad degree in something like engineering might actually help you get a job upon graduating. The moral of the story is not to get an undergrad degree in something like psychology or literature (my major) unless you are planning on going to grad school where you will learn marketable skills.

 

[redsamurai]

Getting an undergrad degree in something like engineering might actually help you get a job upon graduating. The moral of the story is not to get an undergrad degree in something like psychology or literature (my major) unless you are planning on going to grad school where you will learn marketable skills.

good points. With ME there simply is no way you're getting a job without a degree. And nor should you. Should companies let people who think big buildings are pretty cool, try to build them just because? No......nor are you going to work on Harleys if you can't prove you've been through mechanic school. So again razor, how do you accrue marketable skills without some sort of schooling? Yes, today's schools are dumbing down the market.....but that is an indictment of the market, not of the concept of "schooling". The paper is supposed to prove not that you'll actually be good at the job, that always remains to be seen.......but it proves you have some business asking for this job.

 

[Razorguns]

how do you accrue marketable skills without some sort of schooling?

Easy.

You take a look at supply and demand. And today's office worker is yesterday's assembly line worker. We have a nation of excel spreadsheet commandos being let go by the masses. I don't need to go to college to notice that tons of office people with degrees are having a devil of a time finding jobs. It's all over CNN showing these office people whining and crying.

I also don't need to go to college, to notice that men who become heart surgeons, are driving beemers in my city.

Hard Work is what creates money. Not papers.

r

 

[nimbus]

i dont need to go to college to know that you cry yourself to sleep every night

 

[javaguru]

Easy.

You take a look at supply and demand. And today's office worker is yesterday's assembly line worker. We have a nation of excel spreadsheet commandos being let go by the masses. I don't need to go to college to notice that tons of office people with degrees are having a devil of a time finding jobs. It's all over CNN showing these office people whining and crying.

I also don't need to go to college, to notice that men who become heart surgeons, are driving beemers in my city.

Hard Work is what creates money. Not papers.

r

Good luck being a Fortune 1,000 CEO without a degree.No doubt with a good idea, intelligence and drive you can achieve massive riches but that is the exception.

 

[Creepusmaximus]

Good luck being a Fortune 1,000 CEO without a degree.No doubt with a good idea, intelligence and drive you can achieve massive riches but that is the exception.

A degree now doesn't get you much of anything since an under grad degree is about the same as having a high school degree 30 years ago. Every A-hole has some sort of degree but in a lot of white collar jobs you'll never make it in the door without a degree.

Nothing has ever changed. A father or relative in a high place will get you a job. Going to a good school and mixing with the right people will get you places.

Most important if you're not rich don't get some BS liberal arts degree from a private school. That's what rich kids do that will never really have to work for a living.

 

[javaguru]

A degree now doesn't get you much of anything since an under grad degree is about the same as having a high school degree 30 years ago. Every A-hole has some sort of degree but in a lot of white collar jobs you'll never make it in the door without a degree.

Nothing has ever changed. A father or relative in a high place will get you a job. Going to a good school and mixing with the right people will get you places.

Most important if you're not rich don't get some BS liberal arts degree from a private school. That's what rich kids do that will never really have to work for a living.

I still think you can pwn a McDonald's employee for a "real" job if you hav a college degree.

 

[Creepusmaximus]

I still think you can pwn a McDonald's employee for a "real" job if you hav a college degree.

True but that more a question of class. I can tell you around me bars and resturants are filled with people with degrees. Funny part is the olders ones own houses etc. My wife was a manager in a big time hotel and I can tell you all the superisors up had degrees and almost none of them couldn't afford shit. I have to say hotel work is a bad job on many levels. Fun when you're single and young after that you need to do something else.

I also know construction guys around here that started on the bottom and ended up making themselves millions. Problem there is many of them could have really used a business degree to figure out what to do with the money.

 

[-SD-]

my life before college degrees=shit
my life after college degrees=much better.

 

[javaguru]

A degree now doesn't get you much of anything since an under grad degree is about the same as having a high school degree 30 years ago. Every A-hole has some sort of degree but in a lot of white collar jobs you'll never make it in the door without a degree.

Nothing has ever changed. A father or relative in a high place will get you a job. Going to a good school and mixing with the right people will get you places.

Most important if you're not rich don't get some BS liberal arts degree from a private school. That's what rich kids do that will never really have to work for a living.

But being able to dig a ditch and explain why your approach does matter while taking bribes for a position matters more...

 

[UA_Iron]

Engineer here.

I will never have a problem getting a job, ever.

I'll always be in demand.

I am smarter than you.

Worthless degrees are cheapening the idea of having a degree.

 

[javaguru]

Engineer here.

I will never have a problem getting a job, ever.

I'll always be in demand.

I am smarter than you.

Worthless degrees are cheapening the idea of having a degree.

LOL @ a CS degree being worthless...you would do better as a televangelist...lol...that's a real LOL because they want faith...:

 

[iggy]

java, whats your degree?

 

[javaguru]

java, whats your degree?

BA History
JD Law
Currently CS...

 

[iggy]

i see.

if you want to hit up some college parties in the next couple weeks, hit me up bro.

do you know where the hookah bar and rynos is at on bancroft?

 

[binö]

BA History
JD Law
Currently CS...

you got a law degree?
didn't know that, sweet bro

 

[UA_Iron]

BA History
JD Law
Currently CS...

CS and ME are pretty close in desirability.

 

[-SD-]

Wheres ol' MattSkywalker to show up and rail against MBA's.

 

[UA_Iron]

Wheres ol' MattSkywalker to show up and rail against MBA's.

MBA's are kind of silly. It's just like paying a lot of money to get a degree.

My company has been sending people off to harvard to get their MBA's...

 

[-SD-]

MBA's are kind of silly. It's just like paying a lot of money to get a degree.

My company has been sending people off to harvard to get their MBA's...

why is your company doing that, it must cost a fortune compared to just investing in company specific training and experience.

 

[javaguru]

i see.

if you want to hit up some college parties in the next couple weeks, hit me up bro.

do you know where the hookah bar and rynos is at on bancroft?

lol...last semester I had a chick invite me to her 25th b-day party.

 

[Razorguns]

I think people are forgetting, there's a big difference between:

medical degree - earn $250,000 a year.
business/non-marketable skills degree - spend months unemployed, praying for any interview every week
harvard degree - employers call you.

guess what type of degree most people go for?

r

 

[-SD-]

I think people are forgetting, there's a big difference between:

medical degree - earn $250,000 a year.
business/non-marketable skills degree - spend months unemployed, praying for any interview every week
harvard degree - employers call you.

guess what type of degree most people go for?

r

I have BBA accounting and M.Acy and had no problem getting a job in this economy. Everyone called me in fact. All I went to was State U.

 

[chris302001]

I think people are forgetting, there's a big difference between:

medical degree - earn $250,000 a year.
business/non-marketable skills degree - spend months unemployed, praying for any interview every week
harvard degree - employers call you.

guess what type of degree most people go for?

r

The only down side is that you miss out on atleast 10-12 yrs of earning potential, not to mention all of the "fun" you assholes had in college....

 

[Smurfy]

I have BBA accounting and M.Acy and had no problem getting a job in this economy. Everyone called me in fact. All I went to was State U.

That's super, Dave.

 

[Dial_tone]

That's super, Dave.

 

[chris302001]

lololol wtf!

 

[Smurfy]

did you just call me fat?

 

[redsamurai]

and good luck finding a heart surgeon that hasn't spent a minimum of 10-12 years in "school". Would you let a guy perform open heart surgery on you who stayed at a holiday in last night?

Easy.

You take a look at supply and demand. And today's office worker is yesterday's assembly line worker. We have a nation of excel spreadsheet commandos being let go by the masses. I don't need to go to college to notice that tons of office people with degrees are having a devil of a time finding jobs. It's all over CNN showing these office people whining and crying.

I also don't need to go to college, to notice that men who become heart surgeons, are driving beemers in my city.

Hard Work is what creates money. Not papers.

r

 

[redsamurai]

CS and ME are pretty close in desirability.

I got my ME and never sniffed anything close to what I wanted to do. In hindsight I went through all that because I was young and thought following in family footsteps was the thing to do. 10 years later and I'm back in school for business. All my friends that graduated with are doing alright mind you, but they've topped out and don't seem to be too happy. Unless you're such a superstar that NASA snaps you up, ME's are also getting to be a dime a dozen these days. Another acquaintance of mine from ME also went back for business/marketing a few years ago because he wasn't happy with where he was going to top out. So he made the lateral move with his business degree and now he's climbing up to 6 figures because he went corporate. But he's also sacrificed doing some of the research type stuff that he liked to do. I dunno..........myself I'll probably never use my ME because I'm involved with my fathers business now and will probably take that over in a few years.

 

[javaguru]

A chick I know had her son just graduate with a bachelor's in business, no problems getting a job. He's starting at 50k

 

[UA_Iron]

I got my ME and never sniffed anything close to what I wanted to do. In hindsight I went through all that because I was young and thought following in family footsteps was the thing to do. 10 years later and I'm back in school for business. All my friends that graduated with are doing alright mind you, but they've topped out and don't seem to be too happy. Unless you're such a superstar that NASA snaps you up, ME's are also getting to be a dime a dozen these days. Another acquaintance of mine from ME also went back for business/marketing a few years ago because he wasn't happy with where he was going to top out. So he made the lateral move with his business degree and now he's climbing up to 6 figures because he went corporate. But he's also sacrificed doing some of the research type stuff that he liked to do. I dunno..........myself I'll probably never use my ME because I'm involved with my fathers business now and will probably take that over in a few years.

Everyone is expendable. Everyone is replaceable.

 

[javaguru]

Everyone is expendable. Everyone is replaceable.

I made myself irreplaceable by getting my fingers in everything and knowing where all the bodies were buried. I was one of the last ones let go when my last employer shut its doors. It was me and the receptionist/admin/payroll gal.

 

[javaguru]

I luv me some college...

 

[-SD-]

That's super, Dave.

this is your standard reply to all my posts. makes me feel like im 5 years old and stuff.

 

[javaguru]

this is your standard reply to all my posts. makes me feel like im 5 years old and stuff.

IMO, Higher education teaches a mantra and not free thinking...

 

[-SD-]

IMO, Higher education teaches a mantra and not free thinking...

yes having been through the "system" incuding grad school at a somewhat older age (30-34) I have to agree. In the case of accounting degrees, the technical education is taught but how to integrate and practical application for the real world is not stressed at all. typical stuff i suppose. but i will never regret getting a BBA and M.Acy. makes a real difference for opportunities and "foot in the door" type stuff

 

[Razorguns]

Good luck being a Fortune 1,000 CEO without a degree.No doubt with a good idea, intelligence and drive you can achieve massive riches but that is the exception.

No but you can become a Fortune 1000 OWNER.

Ask Bill Gates.

And ask all the degree commandos who are crying because they can't find a job or getting Habibs or Chinese replacing them. They have the paper but can't get a nice job, what gives?? Obama, we did what society told us to do - fix this shit!!! People with degrees shouldn't unemployed!!

"Degrees get you a job. Hard work makes you rich". Paste that on the fridge.

r

 

[Dial_tone]

What's that?
That's the money you could be making if you were half as smart as Razorguns!

 

[Rachel...lol]

This is all a very interesting topic - having a hard time analyzing myself. I have a BBA in Finance, and and an MBA which I finished in June. I lost my job a year and a half ago at a credit union, found a job with a Credit Union Service Organization, just got a 50% raise, promotion, new office, etc. I think all my degrees did for me is illustrate that I can at least commit to something and complete it with a little bit of work. Everything really seems to just have been a succession of circumstances, not planning.
Oh, and then there's that student loan debt

 

[Creepusmaximus]

yes having been through the "system" incuding grad school at a somewhat older age (30-34) I have to agree. In the case of accounting degrees, the technical education is taught but how to integrate and practical application for the real world is not stressed at all. typical stuff i suppose. but i will never regret getting a BBA and M.Acy. makes a real difference for opportunities and "foot in the door" type stuff

I have an accounting degree from a high end private school and the game there is different then you think. The object is to move out of bookkeeping work as fast as possible to basically work at sales. Public school guys can handle the books while we go out to lunch a lot. Goes back to who you know and having the "right degree" "from the right place". I literally had a class in manners. Table manners etc. plus proper dress, wine tasting all sorts of little classes in more social things. Some were school taught most were through clubs that weren't mandatory but they were if you know what I mean. Where to get your suits etc was all laid out too.

 

[javaguru]

No but you can become a Fortune 1000 OWNER.

Ask Bill Gates.

And ask all the degree commandos who are crying because they can't find a job or getting Habibs or Chinese replacing them. They have the paper but can't get a nice job, what gives?? Obama, we did what society told us to do - fix this shit!!! People with degrees shouldn't unemployed!!

"Degrees get you a job. Hard work makes you rich". Paste that on the fridge.

r

I would change that to "smart work makes you rich or crime" Look at the Kennedy's, Joe earned his money the old fashioned way, he stole it.

 

[Creepusmaximus]

I would change that to "smart work makes you rich or crime" Look at the Kennedy's, Joe earned his money the old fashioned way, he stole it.

Nothing wrong with that if you're smart enough to get away with it. He was a rum runner wasn't he??? Or whiskey from Canada, not sure. Any ways he didn't steal it from my knowledge.

 

[mrplunkey]

These types of arguments are useless without differentiating rubber-meets-the-road degrees (i.e. engineering, accounting, computer science) from fluffy degrees (latin, history, fine arts).

 

[javaguru]

Nothing wrong with that if you're smart enough to get away with it. He was a rum runner wasn't he??? Or whiskey from Canada, not sure. Any ways he didn't steal it from my knowledge.

Yes, he made the family fortune during prohibition running booze. My point being that illegal activity does pay...hence my "he stole it" comment.

 

[Razorguns]

These types of arguments are useless without differentiating rubber-meets-the-road degrees (i.e. engineering, accounting, computer science) from fluffy degrees (latin, history, fine arts).

word. people with skills in demand are getting up to work tomorrow.

r

 

[redsamurai]

manners class? Did they have you sashaying around the room in heels balancing a book on top of your head? did they teach how to properly perform the "hando" under the table?

fucks sake......now I know why I instantly dislike alot of ivy leaguers I meet. Only I'll be wearing gloves next time I shake their hand.....

I have an accounting degree from a high end private school and the game there is different then you think. The object is to move out of bookkeeping work as fast as possible to basically work at sales. Public school guys can handle the books while we go out to lunch a lot. Goes back to who you know and having the "right degree" "from the right place". I literally had a class in manners. Table manners etc. plus proper dress, wine tasting all sorts of little classes in more social things. Some were school taught most were through clubs that weren't mandatory but they were if you know what I mean. Where to get your suits etc was all laid out too.

 

[redsamurai]

nothing personal creep.......I just really hope you look back at that in digust and thank god when you got out you shot yourself up with some test, grabbed a beer and threw a hot piece of ass over your shoulder and stomped off to your cave. LOL

 

[javaguru]

This is all a very interesting topic - having a hard time analyzing myself. I have a BBA in Finance, and and an MBA which I finished in June. I lost my job a year and a half ago at a credit union, found a job with a Credit Union Service Organization, just got a 50% raise, promotion, new office, etc. I think all my degrees did for me is illustrate that I can at least commit to something and complete it with a little bit of work. Everything really seems to just have been a succession of circumstances, not planning.
Oh, and then there's that student loan debt

Did you include pictures with your resume? Are you working for an organization that took TARP money?

 

[Rachel...lol]

Did you include pictures with your resume? Are you working for an organization that took TARP money?

You've apparently been following what's been happening... All the stories about the Corporate CU Bailout have been definately affecting what's going on at work for me.

 

[Razorguns]

You've apparently been following what's been happening... All the stories about the Corporate CU Bailout have been definately affecting what's going on at work for me.

Yeah yeah. Post more pics.

r

 

[jackangel]

just to be clear (because you ramble on a bit and aren't always clear, consistent, or focused):

do you think comp. sci. degrees are still worthwhile? since you have one, do you think it helped you learn anything of value that you wouldn't have learned otherwise, and did it help you get jobs?

i have one. i slacked off, and didn't get much out of it (that i'm aware of), but i don't think i would have gotten any of my jobs without one. are you also saying that getting a programmer/developer job
today doesn't require a degree? even the habibs these jobs are outsourced to generally have degrees, no?

 

[javaguru]

just to be clear (because you ramble on a bit and aren't always clear, consistent, or focused):

do you think comp. sci. degrees are still worthwhile? since you have one, do you think it helped you learn anything of value that you wouldn't have learned otherwise, and did it help you get jobs?

i have one. i slacked off, and didn't get much out of it (that i'm aware of), but i don't think i would have gotten any of my jobs without one. are you also saying that getting a programmer/developer job
today doesn't require a degree? even the habibs these jobs are outsourced to generally have degrees, no?

The primary reason I'm getting a CS degree is that it has kept me from getting certain positions, lead developer, on contracts. I have ten years experience and you can get jobs without a CS degree but it isn't like during the tech bubble.

Two year programming degrees aren't particularly useful, they aren't respected.

 

[SpyWizard]

just to be clear (because you ramble on a bit and aren't always clear, consistent, or focused):

do you think comp. sci. degrees are still worthwhile? since you have one, do you think it helped you learn anything of value that you wouldn't have learned otherwise, and did it help you get jobs?

i have one. i slacked off, and didn't get much out of it (that i'm aware of), but i don't think i would have gotten any of my jobs without one. are you also saying that getting a programmer/developer job
today doesn't require a degree? even the habibs these jobs are outsourced to generally have degrees, no?

I can answer that one 1st hand.. with great experience, and certs a IT engineer can easily get to about $95K yr not managing anyone..

however, with the degree, larger companies will hire and continue to train you, managing people = $$$..

So, get a business degree with a Minor in IT..

or a Masters in Computer Science.. =$$$

 

[jackangel]

i have a BS in CS from Lehigh. reasonably good, not great. no going back to school, almost definitely. i don't even like IT, but i should be getting an offer as support/developer in a few days. i'm meh about it, but i've backed myself into a corner financially, so i'll have to deal.

 

[Razorguns]

Plenty of unemployed programmers with degrees begging for a job. Do the math kids.

r

 

[javaguru]

Plenty of unemployed programmers with degrees begging for a job. Do the math kids.

r

If you're in that line it's better to have a degree.

Of course they could take those construction jobs Obama is promising or take a job writing that application that will nationalize health care records, of course that will only employ about a dozen programmers for a year or two.