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The cause of "Deca-Dick"

  • Thread starter Thread starter Stew Meat
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Stew Meat

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Deca, nandralone will give you deca dick at moderate dossages... eventually that is.

Testosterone must be present in the system in order for particular libido inducing chemicals to be released from the brain that causes the smooth muscle tissue surrounding the copus cavernosum of the penis to open up and allow it to fill with blood. Without testosterone in the system, there is no metabolites for this libido increasing hormone to be formed and blood is not allowed to fill the penis and cause an errection. however, high levels of testosterone can be related to increased ability to elicit and maintan an erection.

Nandralone converts to nortestosterone via 5-alpha reductase. Nortestosterone is NOT a metabolite for the formation of libido increasing hormone, but will bind to the androgen receptors in the hypothalamus and cause a shut/slow-down of LH from the pituatary which prevents the production of testosterone by the testicles... nandralone shuts down natural testosterone production (HPTA). Without testosterone in the body, the corpus cavernosum is not allowed to fill with blood and an erection is VERY unlikely...

All deca cycles should include at least some amount of testosterone.



-Stew
 
Well, if this is true, then could the same be said for fina? From all accounts, it shuts down natural test in a heartbeat.

I wonder what this 'therapeutic dose' is? Maybe 250mg test/week?

I hope so, because I am trying fina for the first time, and am running 250 test enanthate with it, just to make sure everything runs as it should, lol.
 
You should be 100% with 250mg weekly - I don't know if anyone ever found a bare minimum amount of test to run for keeping sexual and other functions probably in the 100mg range.
 
MadCow1 said:
You should be 100% with 250mg weekly - I don't know if anyone ever found a bare minimum amount of test to run for keeping sexual and other functions probably in the 100mg range.

Click to expand...

50-100mg/wk will do fine at supporting sexual function...

Normal range is about 45-80mg/wk...




-Stew
 
Thanks - I always wondered about that. Just a bit above human weekly baseline production.

Most here just suggest at least 1/2 a gram with any stack so it's nice to get some facts.
 
I saw on the Discovery channel about Male contraceptives. There was one patient that was being injected with 100mg of test. once a week for several weeks and it actually worked well for him as birth control. This is pretty good, considering his libido probably increased... :D
 
Androgens trigger a feedback mechanism within the hypothalamus... When androgen levels are extremely high, there is no release of gonadotropin stimulating hormone which stimulates the release of FSH and LH... FSH (folicile stimulating hormone) stimulates the serotoli cells of the testicles to produce sperm. Without an FSH release, sperm counts will be VERY low. Serotoli cells comprise 75+% of the mass of the testicles... if your nuts are totally shrunk up, you are most likely infertile... otherwise, you probably have a high enough sperm count to impregnate and probably have at least some natural testosterone production as LH and FSH have not been totally hindered.



-Stew
 
That is why I always use at least 250mg of test when i use Deca and Tren...or maybe because I just like Test :D
 
i like this... lets bump it... deca seems to be extremely popular, so this should remain at top w/ the "newbie post"

thanks again stew
 
Most of the erectile problems associated with DECA are due to its progestagenic nature.

Nandrolone, popularly known as Deca, is a classified as a progestin. Deca derives many of its benefits from its progestenic nature: including, but not limited to, increase IM fat storage and increased fluid retention in the joints from glucocorticoid(GC) stimulation.

Deca is the most widely used form of prescription contraception in the first world. Deca is superior to testosterone as a form of birth control because its progestenic effects which result in rapid onset of azoospermia. Progestins are used similarly in women, progestins given to women in birth control pills and other drugs such as norgestrel and norethidrone are classified as 19-nor-testosterone or 19 nor- progesterone derivatives. Natural progesterone plays an important role in sexual arousal- affecting GABA to a considerable extent. The addition of progestins like deca which compete with progesterone and decrease its production may result in drastically reduced sexual arousal. Interestingly enough, the chemical castration of sex offenders, is acheived through the use of a 19-nortestosterone derivative.



peace
 
macrophage69alpha said:
Most of the erectile problems associated with DECA are due to its progestagenic nature.

Nandrolone, popularly known as Deca, is a classified as a progestin. Deca derives many of its benefits from its progestenic nature: including, but not limited to, increase IM fat storage and increased fluid retention in the joints from glucocorticoid(GC) stimulation.

Deca is the most widely used form of prescription contraception in the first world. Deca is superior to testosterone as a form of birth control because its progestenic effects which result in rapid onset of azoospermia. Progestins are used similarly in women, progestins given to women in birth control pills and other drugs such as norgestrel and norethidrone are classified as 19-nor-testosterone or 19 nor- progesterone derivatives. Natural progesterone plays an important role in sexual arousal- affecting GABA to a considerable extent. The addition of progestins like deca which compete with progesterone and decrease its production may result in drastically reduced sexual arousal. Interestingly enough, the chemical castration of sex offenders, is acheived through the use of a 19-nortestosterone derivative.



peace
Click to expand...


Nice addition, Macro... Didn't realize that progesterone was also a direct libido supressent...

Is progesterogenic activity the primary reason for deca's reputation for aleiviating joint pain and irritation?


-Stew
 
I thought Bill Roberts had cleared this notion up.

"Nandralone converts to nortestosterone via 5-alpha reductase."

STEW, nandrolone IS nortestosterone. 5-AR converts nandrolone (nortest) into DIHYDROnandrolone (dihydro-nortest), which is a much weaker androgen than DHT. DHT is the major libido hormone in the male (and most likely females, also). Therefore, low levels of DHT (due to reduced test levels) cause "Deca-Dick". The fact that low DHT is the cause, is evident with finasteride use. Finasteride is known to cause libido problems due to impairing DHT formation.

MACRO is correct that progestins cause libido problems, but this is also due to reduction in DHT levels, since progesterone is a potent 5-AR inhibitor. So, nandrolone's anti-libido effect is most likely due to simple conversion into a weak androgen, DHN. Nandrolone's progestagenic activity is likely to be weak, since it does not impair exogenous testosterone from converting to DHT and restoring libido.
 
progesterone MAY be a potent 5AR inhibitor (something that I was not aware of) however to measure the progestenic nature of nandrolone based upon its inhibition of 5AR is inadequate. As a progestin, and not progesterone, nandrolone will have varying activty in different tissue types and in its effects on biochemical feedback.

The reason that I point this out is that even with the addition of Test, which upregulates 5ar, and is itself a potent androgen- most people, suffering from nandrolone induced sexual problems, still have sexual some sexual inhibition. What I am trying to say is that Deca dick is, in a very real way, in your head- it is a result of neurological effects of progestenic regulation of the GABA system.

just my little opinion though

peace
 
cockdezl said:
I thought Bill Roberts had cleared this notion up.

"Nandralone converts to nortestosterone via 5-alpha reductase."

STEW, nandrolone IS nortestosterone. 5-AR converts nandrolone (nortest) into DIHYDROnandrolone (dihydro-nortest), which is a much weaker androgen than DHT. DHT is the major libido hormone in the male (and most likely females, also). Therefore, low levels of DHT (due to reduced test levels) cause "Deca-Dick". The fact that low DHT is the cause, is evident with finasteride use. Finasteride is known to cause libido problems due to impairing DHT formation.

MACRO is correct that progestins cause libido problems, but this is also due to reduction in DHT levels, since progesterone is a potent 5-AR inhibitor. So, nandrolone's anti-libido effect is most likely due to simple conversion into a weak androgen, DHN. Nandrolone's progestagenic activity is likely to be weak, since it does not impair exogenous testosterone from converting to DHT and restoring libido.
Click to expand...


By the tone of this, it sounds like you are disagreeing with me... I said that the problem with nandralone is that it shuts down natural testosterone production. Where testosterone turns into libido raising hormones (like you spelled out, DHT), nandralone does not. So injecting testosterone does not inhibit libido while injecting nandralone does not.... I'm not seeing what you are arguing against... Or are you agreeing with me and just providing additional info..?



-Stew
 
"progesterone MAY be a potent 5AR inhibitor (something that I was not aware of) however to measure the progestenic nature of nandrolone based upon its inhibition of 5AR is inadequate. As a progestin, and not progesterone, nandrolone will have varying activty in different tissue types and in its effects on biochemical feedback"

You are correct in stating that 5-AR activity is a poor quantitative measure for progestin activity, since progesterone acts as a competitive inhibitor, and not through enzymatic regulation. Nandrolone may not share this trait as progesterone (which is a structural trait).

"What I am trying to say is that Deca dick is, in a very real way, in your head- it is a result of neurological effects of progestenic regulation of the GABA system."

Whether the primary reason is through progestagenic action, or reduced androgen action, it will definately be "in your head". DHT acts on libido through the central nervous system, not as a direct action on the erectile tissues. My reasoning is that similar problems are observed without the use of progestagenic agents, as in the example of finasteride, which causes libido loss through DHT reduction.


"By the tone of this, it sounds like you are disagreeing with me..."

Not disagreeing with you (except on the part of nandrolone to nortest), but simply expounding on a topic that I thought had been thoroughly covered for years now.


Here is an interesting study showing progesterone's action on 5-AR. It also has some useful info for those with hair loss problems...progesterone creams are OTC now (and maybe useful for prevention of gyno, I'll just let ya'll hang on this one).


J Invest Dermatol 1988 Nov;91(5):429-33

"Synergistic antiandrogenic effects of topical combinations of 5 alpha-reductase and androgen receptor inhibitors in the hamster sebaceous glands."

Matias JR, Malloy VL, Orentreich N.

Biomedical Research Station, Orentreich Foundation Inc., Cold Spring-on-Hudson, NY 10516.

The androgenic action of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is antagonized by agents that compete with testosterone for the 5 alpha-reductase enzyme and by agents that block the binding of DHT to its receptor. The topical synergistic effect of 5 alpha-reductase (5 alpha RI) and androgen receptor inhibitors (ARI) was determined by measurement of the sebaceous gland size (SGS) of the ventral ear skin of the intact, sexually mature male Syrian hamsters. Progesterone (P), a 5 alpha RI, and spironolactone (SL), an ARI, produced a dose responsive decrease in SGS at topical concentrations of 0.01% to 5.0%. At concentrations of 1, 3, and 5%, P and SL combinations produced neither an additive nor synergistic inhibition of SGS. At very low concentrations of up to 0.10%, neither P nor SL alone produced any effect on SGS. When combinations of these two steroids were applied at low concentrations, SGS decreased unilaterally to approximately 50%. This synergy occurred best at a P:SL ratio of 1:2. The lower effective concentrations of P may be explained by its greater percutaneous absorption. Synergy was also demonstrated at low concentrations with other antiandrogens: cyproterone acetate, canrenone, hydroxyflutamide, and N-N-diethyl-4-methyl-3-oxo-4-aza-5 alpha-androstane- 17 beta-carboxamide. The use of anti-androgen combinations at low concentrations is of value because of the decreased risk of systemic side effects while maintaining potent topical efficacy
 
Cock, exactly how does progestin interfere with 5-AR? Does it bind to 5-AR or inhibit 5-AR transcription... or...?

I'm just curious.

The reason being, if indeed progestin does block the actions of 5-AR by binding to it directly, that would mean that if you blocked progestin from its appripriate receptors in various tissues (ex. breast tissue) then it would leave more progestin in circulation. This would leave more for 5-AR interaction. Blocking 5-AR will prevent the conversion of nandralone to DHN. Nandralone has VERY high androgenic activity within the scalp... So basicly what I'm saying is that if progestin binds to 5-AR, Deca+Winny could mean additional hairloss outside of winny's direct androgenic activity within the scalp...



-Stew
 
This post reminds me of back in the day when I used to read Pat Arnold, Unique, and Animal debate on certain topics. And even though I have gotten smater since then, I realize that I am still the same uneducated shit when compared to you damn smarty pants's. I give myself another year or two and I will be able to hang with you guys. BTW, I know more than I give myself credit for. Anyway, great post!:rolleyes:

MR. BMJ
 
does anyone know if eq can cause lack of sex drive.i am currently on prop,and eq at 100mg eod each,since i started about 2 weeks ago my sex drive has declined conciterably from my last cycle of sust and deca.:confused:
 
How soon the Deca Dick appears? Ive been 4 weeks on Deca 400mg and at least yet there has not been any problems with my fellow :D
 
"Cock, exactly how does progestin interfere with 5-AR? Does it bind to 5-AR or inhibit 5-AR transcription... or...?"

Progesterone has a higher affinity for 5-AR, it is acting through competitive inhibtion.

"The reason being, if indeed progestin does block the actions of 5-AR by binding to it directly, that would mean that if you blocked progestin from its appripriate receptors in various tissues (ex. breast tissue) then it would leave more progestin in circulation. This would leave more for 5-AR interaction. Blocking 5-AR will prevent the conversion of nandralone to DHN. Nandralone has VERY high androgenic activity within the scalp... So basicly what I'm saying is that if progestin binds to 5-AR, Deca+Winny could mean additional hairloss outside of winny's direct androgenic activity within the scalp..."

Progesterone inhibition of 5-AR would definately cause more hair loss if used with Nandrolone, since it would prevent Nandrolone from converting to the weaker androgen, DHN. This is the same reason not to use Nandrolone with Finasteride. But remember that this is probably only related to progesterone, and not mediated through the progesterone receptor. The structure of progesterone imparts a greater affinity for 5-AR, so this does not apply to all progestins.
 
Stew Meat said:
if progestin binds to 5-AR, Deca+Winny could mean additional hairloss outside of winny's direct androgenic activity within the scalp...



-Stew
Click to expand...

That's pretty slick thinking, Stew. I guess this would also mean a decca/winny cycle or a decca/anadrol cycle would both have the same effect; winny because it competes for PRs and increases free progesterone, and anadrol for the same reason.

So, would this be considered a synergistic affect? I only ask because I'm not certain whether or not DHN plays a role in decca's effectiveness.
 
DHT is far more anabolic than test, but I don't know that DHN is more anabolic than nandralone... I would think so.



-Stew
 
stew, obviously you know exactly what your talking about - can i pick your brains for a few seconds?

I am a scrawny 32 yrs 6'0 170 pound guy who trains, moderately about 3 times per week - 2 years ago i was about 140 lbs and have managed to gain about 30 lbs in 2 years with a change of diet, protein supps and creatine. i've 200 dbol (naps) and if i take 8/day for about 3 weeks could i gain (and keep ) about 15 pounds? without stacking at all with decca or similar ( hard to get A.S. in england) also, do you think that cos of the short period of time i could do without clomid or proviron. I dont want to sound a p*ick but i've had the naps for about six weeks, can't get decca, can't get clomid etc. and want to experiment with the dbol. as for research i've tried and get conflicts all the time. any advice for me??:bawling:

ps. m18 - thanks for the previous advice.
 
What i wanna know is, why the fuck do people do deca and not just stick with test? i know the combination of both gives much better gains, but still...why makes deca so much better than test?
 
ADB said:
stew, obviously you know exactly what your talking about - can i pick your brains for a few seconds?

I am a scrawny 32 yrs 6'0 170 pound guy who trains, moderately about 3 times per week - 2 years ago i was about 140 lbs and have managed to gain about 30 lbs in 2 years with a change of diet, protein supps and creatine. i've 200 dbol (naps) and if i take 8/day for about 3 weeks could i gain (and keep ) about 15 pounds? without stacking at all with decca or similar ( hard to get A.S. in england) also, do you think that cos of the short period of time i could do without clomid or proviron. I dont want to sound a p*ick but i've had the naps for about six weeks, can't get decca, can't get clomid etc. and want to experiment with the dbol. as for research i've tried and get conflicts all the time. any advice for me??:bawling:

ps. m18 - thanks for the previous advice.
Click to expand...


Save the dbol till you are ready for a real cycle and you have the necessary ancilary products... You'll loose most of your gains otherwise.



-Stew
 
2Thick said:
There is no such thing as Deca Dick.

It is psychosomatic. All of this supposed "proof" is hearsay and speculation.

It only affects a small fraction of users and it strongly depends on what you think will happen.
Click to expand...


On dossages that you recomend, no one would experience it anyway ;)

Fella, that's a mighty bold statement saying that there is no such thing as a scientificly proven and frequently experienced event such as "deca dick."



-Stew
 
Stew Meat said:



On dossages that you recomend, no one would experience it anyway ;)

Fella, that's a mighty bold statement saying that there is no such thing as a scientificly proven and frequently experienced event such as "deca dick."



-Stew
Click to expand...

That is why intelligent people who use moderate dosages don't have problems..lol

As you know, there are no scientific studies that prove what you claim. And as for the personal testimonials of board members...I would take that with a grain of salt.
 
Well, decca at 400mg/week didn't hurt my drive or dick. I was only stacking with dbol at the time, too. BUT, fina KILLED my sex drive. I didn't even want to look at pussy until I started stacking it with test.
 
Big Johnson said:
Well, decca at 400mg/week didn't hurt my drive or dick. I was only stacking with dbol at the time, too. BUT, fina KILLED my sex drive. I didn't even want to look at pussy until I started stacking it with test.
Click to expand...


Dbol is a testosterone analog. I thought that I had already established that you don't get deca dick when you stack it with testosterone.



-Stew
 
I wasn't disagreeing with you, bro :) But, even a weak analogue such as dbol kept mr. happy, well happy when I was on decca :D

So, I guess a good rule of thumb is to stack decca or fina with test, eq, or dbol if you want to keep it up?
 
"There is no such thing as Deca Dick.
It is psychosomatic. All of this supposed "proof" is hearsay and speculation."

2THICK, what don't you understand about what was earlier stated? So you are saying that finasteride does not cause decreased libido in some users? It is stated by the manufacturer. The reason: reduced DHT.

Does nandrolone not get converted into a weak androgen, DHN? This has been shown in numerous studies.

Have progestins not been shown to decrease libido through various mechanisms, especially mediated through the CNS? This also has been shown, and is stated in many progestin information sheets.

If you are looking to be spoonfed every piece of information, then you will not gain alot of knowledge that can be found through anayltical thought.

"It only affects a small fraction of users and it strongly depends on what you think will happen."

What 'study' showed you this?
 
freakazoid said:
does anyone know if eq can cause lack of sex drive.i am currently on prop,and eq at 100mg eod each,since i started about 2 weeks ago my sex drive has declined conciterably from my last cycle of sust and deca.:confused:
Click to expand...
certainly, EQ is Deca's little cousin.
 
This is a great thread and, given deca's popularity, very pertinent.
I got lost in the scientific discussion, but I think I understand the essential
message:
- When taking deca, also include test.
- Keep the dosages reasonable. (250 and under)
- Each of us is an individual and may react differently.

Did I understand?

I can remember when deca first became popular. It was used alone and with dbol.
I have no knowledge of "dick" problems back then. LOL Most guys were perpetually
horny and looking to get laid.
 
My unique problem is that I did 2 cycles of Deca and was told that HCG was the same as Clomid....as you can guess I was shut down VERY hard. Very low test level, as well as LH, and FSH.......

Been nearly 3 months since my last HCG shot....Started Tomaxophine Citrate over a month later (too late ?) and have been on it for about 7 weeks. Erections have gotten a little better, but NO SEX DRIVE and feel lethargic and moody.....Will my test return back to normal or does doing HCG w/ no Clomid or Nolva immedietly afterwards permanently shut you down ??


how long should I wait and does Nolvadex (Tomaxo ) further supress libido ?? Should I possibly run HCG or possibly even Test again ? Need advice since I have an endo appt. in a month and do NOT want to go on TRT or HRT. I'm 31 BTW.
 
Would running a low cycle of test, followed by HCG, and clomid bring me out of this or would the test and HCG make the problem worse ??
 
jump on 100mg clomid ED and get some letrozole, 1.25mg ED. Get some tribulus as well. You gotta gat those fuckers up and running, youve been down awhile.

You arent shutdown for good, ive heard rumors that improper use of HCG can do this, but i never looked into it further becasue i never use the stuff. a SERM (clomid or nolva, clomid a little better for restoration) and an AI (potent one like letrozole) is all i use post cycle.
 
It should be noted. Even a gram of test may not due jack if your taking 200 or 400 deca due to the progesterone. Test does not gaurantee you will be able to get it up. The bodys hormones and chemicals must be in a equalibrilum and "good state" for your libido and sex drive to be optimal.
 
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