The #1 culprit for the Civil War?

[milo hobgoblin]

First off they would never make 10 dollars an hour and there should certainly be NO requirement to pay farm workers any kind of benefits.

Southern farmers became reliant on salves.. that was their mistake.. forgoing much cheaper mechanization where is "could" be used.

The reality is maintaining slaves was more expensive.. he had to house and feed them out of his own pocket.. paying them some measly sum.. and using mechanization would have been quite a bit cheaper overall.

You really need to pick up a book or two on the economics of slave labor..

and as far as your migrant worker theories... the cost to society is just too great. The 10 billion a year we are paying completely overshadows whatever cost we may incur by only utilizing legal labor

ok going to lunch for some sushi.. NOT caught by illegals LOL.. talk to you later.

 

[Y_lifter]

First off they would never make 10 dollars an hour and there should certainly be NO requirement to pay farm workers any kind of benefits. Who else is going to do that type work for less $ and no benefits?

Southern farmers became reliant on salves.. that was their mistake.. forgoing much cheaper mechanization where is "could" be used.

I did mention that they did use mechaization, yet more machines means larger farms which means more Labor needed for these tasks that only human labor can do. More Slaves needed


ok going to lunch for some sushi..
NOT caught by illegals LOL.. talk to you later.

Enjoy.., your sushi is likely caught by labor that risks death due to needing to go further out and shorter seasons. Or its foreign near slave labor caught.

.

 

[JonPee]

And that bullshit about migrant workers.. what the fuck do you know? You dont even live in California.. Those fucking migrants cost us 10 BILLION dollars last year in unpaid medical care, school and property taxes, increased crime, welfare fraud.

If Lincoln was so go damn brilliant he would have bought up the slaves, freed them.. slave trading was already illegal in Europe in the influx of new slaves into the US was already at a minimum and could have EASILY been controlled through blockades.

The south would have adapted to the loss of slavery and blacks would havbe been accepted much easier in the SOuth.. but by forcing them through war,... and economically devastating the South all the North did was create a HUGE hatred of not only blacks but also the North.

And in many of Lincolns documents (that havnt been mutated by revisionists.. he says many times he did not think blacks and whites could live or be governed together)

oh and if you think Lincoln was so "anti slavery" why did he allow four of the loyalist states to retain slaves during the first part of the war???

Lincon was vindicitve and wanted to EXPAND federal powers.. the Sotuh wanted to retain its independence and the spirit of the constitution.. he made them pay for that attituide.

Slavery wasnt even an issue until he needed to garner support from Northern liberals to continue financing the war.. which the North was losing in the beginiing.. and badly.

You all think the Northand Blacks won the civil war.. The American People lost the civil war.. our government made huge expanses in its power and centralization and many of the powers that can be used to take away YOUR civil rights can have their roots traced back to post civil war government policies.

His comment about cheap migrant workers was referring to the agricultural industry only, not America as a whole. And if you think slavery wasn't an issue then you obviously don't know a whole lot about the war. It was the combination of state's rights and slavery that started it. Without slavery, state's rights wouldn't have been threatened. Lincoln wanted it so that the states where slavery was currently legal in would remain legal, but any new state it would not be legal. This scared those states because as soon as there were enough non-slave states to amend the constitution, slavery would be gone. And as for your comment about slavery holding the south back mechanically, that is also very ignorant. The cotton gin was the invention that made slavery even more important to the south. No matter how you want to look at it, slaves were cheaper than hiring workers. Whether or not it was a big enough difference $ wise to kill the whole economy is questionable, but look at something like Wal-Mart for example. The people that run that company have more money than they could ever spend, yet they still screw all their employees over so they can be even richer.

 

[milo hobgoblin]

LOL. Im sure whatever high school history class you learned that in was a good one.. its just more revisionist crap.

Anyone who has spent anytime studying the civil war knows that the issue of slavery was not in any way a primary motivator for the civil war. Encroachment of expanding federal powers was. The south had EVERY right to secede according to the constitution of the United States (at that time) and were forcibly denied that right.

That crap you are spewing is just what they tell high school children to make them feel like the US government at that time really cared about blacks.. they didnt and Lincoln had no desire to keep them in the country.. but since he bent over for the liberal in the North he had no choice after tha war but to accept them. If it were up to the government.. they would have ALL been shipped to what is now Liberia.

Slaves were not cheap and the one point you fail to mention is they were becoming even more expensive because the influx of new slaves was greatly diminishing as European nations were clamping down on its trade.. and as hard as it may be for you to accept.. the majority of slaves were NOT mistreated, yes they were slaves but they werent starvingt or beaten with bullwhips every other day like the media and liberal brainwashign would have you beleive.

Yes slavery is a horrible institution.. but there were MUCH better ways to end it than the civil war.

In any case.. its a pointless arguement.. You want to beleive no matter how its worded that the government back then "cared" about blacks and considered them equals.. you want to beleive that the countries economic success can be greatly attributed to blacks and their slave labor.. go right ahead. But just know you are just believing a revisionist fairy tale.

Hey.. maybe you and Y-Lifter can start paying reparations! According to your philosphy (and his) they deserve it, right?

Of course ignoring the fact that there isnt a person alive today that was ever a slave.. they are all dead.. so are their children and their grandchildren.

 

[JonPee]

How about you argue against what I said and not what you want me to have said? Where did I say anything about how slaves were mistreated? Where did I say anything about the government being about truth, honor, and equality? Where the hell did that line about reparations come from? I don't know who the hell you're trying to argue with here because it sure isn't me. All I stated were facts, and you say the reason for the civil war was the expanding of federal powers. I agree with that, but I'm saying you can't seperate that from slavery because that's the subject the whole federal vs state issue was based on. Hopefully if you choose to argue with this you'll at least argue against something I actually wrote.

 

[rsnoble-im-back]

From what I recall reading Lincoln was a major league fuking asshole not unlike todays breed.

 

[JonPee]

I never met him so I can't really say. Supposedly he really was against slavery, but in several speeches he mentioned that he felt whites were superior to blacks.

 

[HiDnGoD]

Just wondering. Why are y'all still fighting that war? Isn't there enough to go around today?
It happened almost 150 yrs ago & people are still paying for it through hatred & prejudice, lovingly handed down from generation to generation.
WHY CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG.............?(sob)

 

[Delinquent]

Here is some info regarding Black Confederates. Even though it is a website, they list plenty of sources to verify the claims.

http://www.37thtexas.org/html/BlkHist.html

Note: As you read, you can see that Black Confederates were not offered freedom until very late in the war yet many were still willing to fight for The Cause and many were even given officer ranks despite what the Confederate politicians wanted.

 

[Y_lifter]

Hey.. maybe you and Y-Lifter can start paying reparations! According to your philosphy (and his) they deserve it, right?

HUH ?
Where did this come from ?