Test/Tren cycle worried about boobies

[hammertime30]

I had the same question... if you are using tren acetate you are cutting it close with 3rd day injections. EOD is safer.

Tren half life is 3 days so can you explain to me how EOD is safer than every 3 days....If I was to inject 100mg of tren mon that would mean thurs I would half 50mg of tren remaining...If i was to inject 50mg mon...and then 50 mg wed...I would have 75mg of tren remaining on thurs.......either way, I have a a nice concentration of tren in the blood stream.....and either way it goes you will still never have steady blood levels....so I'm just curious as to exactly what you mean by cutting it close and safer??

 

[Mavy]

Eh bro .. you picked a bad cycle if you are "worried about boobies". But take the proper precautions and you should be fine. I am with Mustang on this. Use an AI such as Aromasin for prevention, and use a SERM to treat the problem at the source, if you still somehow manage to get gyno symptoms.

Take some Cabergoline bro. O.5mg of e4d should do the trick and you will have all bases covered.

I'm on that very same cycle now, however I use winny to control progestin buildup

Hammertime, to bad this is a complete myth, and there is not one shred of evidence or piece of literature anywhere to back this up. I was under the same impression for the longest time, and just got my ass handed to me on a platter over this argument on another board, lol. They do make a nice stack though. If you are worried about tren or nandrolone, i wouldnt rely on the winny to protect you. If you think its going to be a concern, I would get some Cabergoline as well.

Mavy

 

[hammertime30]

Hammertime, to bad this is a complete myth, and there is not one shred of evidence or piece of literature anywhere to back this up. I was under the same impression for the longest time, and just got my ass handed to me on a platter over this argument on another board, lol. They do make a nice stack though. If you are worried about tren or nandrolone, i wouldnt rely on the winny to protect you. If you think its going to be a concern, I would get some Cabergoline as well.

Mavy

Mavy, buddy you should have called me to help you with that arguement.....here is some literature for you from big cat

"The specificity of Winny however, lies in how it counteracts estrogenic side-effects such as gyno and excess water retention. First of all it's a 5-alpha reduced substrate. 5-alpha reduction breaks the double bond between positions 4 and 5, which is required for conversion to estrogen via aromatase, the primary enzyme for the manufacture of estrogen in males. Because some of these compounds nonetheless show some affinity for aromatase they may have some use in blocking estrogen from other steroids they are stacked with. Wether or not Winny acts in this way is not entirely sure. What has been a popular point of discussion with stanozolol is its suggested anti-progestagenic effects. The theory goes that Winny can bind and compete for a position at the progesterone receptor much like Clomid of Nolvadex would at the estrogen receptor, thereby inhibiting progestagenic effects. Now, progesterone can aggravate estrogenic side-effects by agonizing estrogen and it does play a role in gyno."

I use winny and B6 together and I'm fine!!!!

 

[escher]

Someone answer me this once and for all!!!

There are so many conflicting opinions in this thread that my head is spinning. No big deal, just someone clarify.

I have been told by many people that anti-Es hurt overall gains from gear. The only way I could conceive this rationalization is that they (people who subscribe to this belief) are equating OA gains to include the fat and waterbloat that come with heavy androgens. Water and fat make you look bigger and weigh more, and maybe, just MAYBE the water in the muscles helps them to contract better. WHATEVER.

My first Q is, do anti-Es in ANY WAY affect or hinder the anabolism of steroids? Would someone running nolvadex or even an anti-a like letrozole experience LESS muscle growth simply because of the anti-Es? If so, how is this possible? I don't know it all, but to me this seems plain illogical.

To state the opposite, I have also been told (and seen many times on this board) that it is fine to run an anti-E like Nolva throughout the cycle, that it won't hurt one's OA gains, and that the gains would in reality be much clearer and more defined due to the absence (or low levels) of female hormones. These are two very separate schools of thought.

Not wishing to turn this into a debate, or start a new thread, what is the truth? I am in the process of finding the right testosterone (Aratest not going well...), and once I am on the good stuff, I want to be confident with how I run my Nolvadex. Feedback welcomed for this scenario. Vets especially.

-e

 

[unclebully]

Re: Someone answer me this once and for all!!!

There are so many conflicting opinions in this thread that my head is spinning. No big deal, just someone clarify.

I have been told by many people that anti-Es hurt overall gains from gear. The only way I could conceive this rationalization is that they (people who subscribe to this belief) are equating OA gains to include the fat and waterbloat that come with heavy androgens. Water and fat make you look bigger and weigh more, and maybe, just MAYBE the water in the muscles helps them to contract better. WHATEVER.

My first Q is, do anti-Es in ANY WAY affect or hinder the anabolism of steroids? Would someone running nolvadex or even an anti-a like letrozole experience LESS muscle growth simply because of the anti-Es? If so, how is this possible? I don't know it all, but to me this seems plain illogical.

To state the opposite, I have also been told (and seen many times on this board) that it is fine to run an anti-E like Nolva throughout the cycle, that it won't hurt one's OA gains, and that the gains would in reality be much clearer and more defined due to the absence (or low levels) of female hormones. These are two very separate schools of thought.

Not wishing to turn this into a debate, or start a new thread, what is the truth? I am in the process of finding the right testosterone (Aratest not going well...), and once I am on the good stuff, I want to be confident with how I run my Nolvadex. Feedback welcomed for this scenario. Vets especially.

-e

Anti- e's do effect gains by reducing igf-1 levels, and also by reducing the water retention that helps you lift heavier and therefore build more muscle.

 

[Mavy]

lol .. well I would have called you over hammertime, had you had some more ammo to take over than that! lol. Who wrote that anyways? Someone posted on the thread that same thing?

Anywhoo ... my argument was simply that if progesterone requires oestrogen presence to activate it, then one method of avoiding this would be to use the progestins in stacks with non-aromatising steroids like winny. I even looked to DrJMW for some backup on this, as he has claimed to have seen prog gyno symptoms actually dissapate on athletes he has designed cycles for, by introducing winny into their cycles. But, he is also unclear how it works. And there is no proof.

Furthermore, aparently, there is no evidence that synthetic progestigenic androgens even cause gyno, or even contribute to it. Winstrol is thought to be a progesterone receptor agonist only. Your post above is nothing more than a theory, as it even cleary states in it.

Also, you being fine from using winny and B6 together holds no ground either and is only empirical. I've ran Deca with nothing more than test and I was fine. Dosent mean I will push my luck and run it again. For natural OTC supps THG, and even better SAM-e seems to be the best route, and a much better choice than B6. But .. the bottom line is nothing will work better than cabergoline. This actually works by stopping your brain from making and releasing prolactin from your pituitary. This is the reason that this drug is currently the number 1 treatment of choice for the majority of patients with hyperprolactinaemic disorders, and number 1 to improve gonadal and sexual function and fertility in males with with high prolactin. Based on what I was fed recently, apparently the whole gyno issue is a whoosh, but all other nasty sides of high prolactin can be treated the most effectively with Cabergoline. Not winny or B6.

Might want to invest in some. The winny+b6 combo could be a false sense of security for you.

 

[hammertime30]

lol .. well I would have called you over hammertime, had you had some more ammo to take over than that! lol. Who wrote that anyways? Someone posted on the thread that same thing?

Anywhoo ... my argument was simply that if progesterone requires oestrogen presence to activate it, then one method of avoiding this would be to use the progestins in stacks with non-aromatising steroids like winny. I even looked to DrJMW for some backup on this, as he has claimed to have seen prog gyno symptoms actually dissapate on athletes he has designed cycles for, by introducing winny into their cycles. But, he is also unclear how it works. And there is no proof.

Furthermore, aparently, there is no evidence that synthetic progestigenic androgens even cause gyno, or even contribute to it. Winstrol is thought to be a progesterone receptor agonist only. Your post above is nothing more than a theory, as it even cleary states in it.

Also, you being fine from using winny and B6 together holds no ground either and is only empirical. I've ran Deca with nothing more than test and I was fine. Dosent mean I will push my luck and run it again. For natural OTC supps THG, and even better SAM-e seems to be the best route, and a much better choice than B6. But .. the bottom line is nothing will work better than cabergoline. This actually works by stopping your brain from making and releasing prolactin from your pituitary. This is the reason that this drug is currently the number 1 treatment of choice for the majority of patients with hyperprolactinaemic disorders, and number 1 to improve gonadal and sexual function and fertility in males with with high prolactin. Based on what I was fed recently, apparently the whole gyno issue is a whoosh, but all other nasty sides of high prolactin can be treated the most effectively with Cabergoline. Not winny or B6.

Might want to invest in some. The winny+b6 combo could be a false sense of security for you.

It's no doubt that cabergoline is the better choice for combating prolactin, but remember the gyno issue becomes more of a threat to someone who carries high bodyfat and/or someone who is taking very high dosages......I take the slow route Mavy....I take 200mg test and 225-275mg of tren at only 9% bf which is not going to make me grow tits.............Because of this, and I decided on this because I don't like taking ancillarys throughout my cycle because they make me feel like shit, there is no need for me to waste money on something as powerful as cabegoline.........Now if I was pushing 800mg+ of test and 500mg of tren then there is no way I would push my luck with just winny and b6.......So my question is this...has anyone on this board or the other boards posted that they got gyno from low dosages of test and deca or tren at 9% or lower bf?? My answer is, I doubt it very much!

 

[JKurz1]

how about a dbol/test/eq cycle.........could you use winny instead of armidex?

 

[hammertime30]

how about a dbol/test/eq cycle.........could you use winny instead of armidex?

winny binds to progestin receptors and doesn't aromatize, however dbol, test and eq binds to estrogen receptors therefore winny wouldn't help with this that stack.

 

[Mavy]

It's no doubt that cabergoline is the better choice for combating prolactin, but remember the gyno issue becomes more of a threat to someone who carries high bodyfat and/or someone who is taking very high dosages......I take the slow route Mavy....I take 200mg test and 225-275mg of tren at only 9% bf which is not going to make me grow tits.............Because of this, and I decided on this because I don't like taking ancillarys throughout my cycle because they make me feel like shit, there is no need for me to waste money on something as powerful as cabegoline.........Now if I was pushing 800mg+ of test and 500mg of tren then there is no way I would push my luck with just winny and b6.......So my question is this...has anyone on this board or the other boards posted that they got gyno from low dosages of test and deca or tren at 9% or lower bf?? My answer is, I doubt it very much!

Ya sure. Obviously if you are not prone, or are running lower doses, or not staying on as long, you run a much less risk of running into problems. I wouldnt even use ancillaries if this was the case. Just have them on hand.

But .. others want to go the "not so slow" route, and up the dosages, and need ancillaries. Others are just more prone to certain sides. I am with you on the lower dosage route, (not as low as yours), but still low compared to a lot of folks here. And I am just starting to come close to the gram mark, and really dont want to have to keep upping dosages to see gains. Mainly because I have yet to have any side effects whatsoever. Maybe lost a hair or two, lol. I feel if I keep upping doages this will chage though. My balls dont even shrink when im on. lol. Not saying I am not shut down, but my coonyanas always keep swinging. lol.

Mavy