Take that Microcrap! Linux ain't dead yet!

[Razorguns]

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...506&call_pageid=968350072197&col=969048863851

New computer store first to feature Linux gear
Opening hailed as historic event

Windows rival grows in popularity

TYLER HAMILTON
TECHNOLOGY REPORTER

Toronto will become home this weekend to what's being touted as the first retail computer store devoted exclusively to Linux-based products.

Sub500.com, located at 2930 Dufferin St. near Lawrence Ave., will sell PCs and laptop computers based on the increasingly popular and relatively inexpensive open-source operating system, which has emerged as a serious alternative to Microsoft Corp.'s Windows.

Linux has already grabbed a significant share of the corporate server market and a growing number of Linux software providers, Red Hat, Mandrake, Xandros and Lindows among them, are beginning to promote the operating system for business and home use.

Marc and David Silverman, 32 and 37, respectively, have been selling Linux products over the Web for 18 months. The brothers also operate a car wash on Dufferin St. and figured they could use surplus office space at that location to open a Linux store.

Marc Silverman said many people are tired of having "Microsoft shoved down their throats" and a store dedicated to Linux gives the average computer user a chance to test computers and applications based on the operating system before making a purchase.

The store will have Linux experts to answer questions and a service centre that can handle repairs and upgrades.

The brothers will initially sell laptops and personal computers based on Lindow Inc.'s Linspire, a user-friendly Windows-like version of Linux.

PCs will cost from $299 to $979, while laptops will sell for as low as $1,111.

Linspire add-on software packages containing personal finance, word processing, spreadsheets and photo-editing applications, as well as games, will sell for less than $50.

Marc Silverman said Linspire offers "a good way for the average guy to get out of Windows," though the brothers plan to add other versions of Linux in the coming months.

"We're going to carry the whole line-up."

Michael Robinson, chief executive officer of Lindows, went so far as to call the upcoming opening of the new store a "historical event for the Linux industry." That's because most current Linux users must download and install the operating system and related applications themselves, as there are few retailers who sell and service pre-loaded Linux computers.

Marc Silverman said the store is an experimental "one-off" at the moment.

"But if things work well we would definitely expand."

Montreal would likely be the next target city, he added.

 

[Razorguns]

Behold the BEAUTY!!!

 

[Buddy_Christ]

i'm gonna have to read this later. i spent a year running linux mandrake and loved it. i recently made the switch to XP, but only because i was hooked up by the coolest man i know. i feel like i can do a bit more in XP than in linux. some things work better, like java and flash.

however, first thing i did upon loading XP was to download Mozilla Firefox and then a few days later, some awesome members of this board got me to download Mozilla Thunderbird for my e-mail. 2 awesome programs. i won't use IE and Outlook...not a f'ing chance!

linux also gave me problems with my CD-RW drive. it knew it wsa there, but if i put a data CD in there, it'd freak out and i'd go into kernel panic. that sucked ass. i got a DVD drive for free though, so that took care of that problem, but still sucked to not have full use of my CD drive. it'd play music cds though.

 

[Razorguns]

This is perfect for all those bozo's who keep getting 900 viruses on their systems and fucking it up. Like all my friends.

 

[MAX 300]

Hmm, is Linux easy to use and install?

Idealistically I am all for Linux, but practically I still want to use Windows. Viruses are not really a problem for me. I have heard from others that they didn't get flash working on their computer running Linux.

 

[Dial_tone]

I use Gentoo Linux and FreeBSD. Printing in unix can be difficult but CUPS makes it easier. I don't really miss much except Office sometimes.

 

[Code]

The store will go out of business within a year after opening.

GAIM sucks major ass, randomly disconnects all day long.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again (and I like linux):

Linux will NEVER beat out windows in the desktop arena.
Even fedora, which is about the best desktop any distro can muster up blows in comparison to windows for the average user.

It doesn't have auto-installers, RPM is nowhere near installshield.
The software suites for it suck, OpenOffice is light years behind MS Office.
It lacks the intuition required for the average end user.

Developers for linux distros ignore the fact that they NEED to comply. Take AudiPlayer for Red Hat, it cannot legally play MP3s. They assume everyone out there will either hack it or simply download an earlier version.

No distro currently connects seemlessly to DFS.

Linux's best e-mail client, Ximian, is seriously lacking when compared to Outlook. The rule filtering isn't automatic, you have to apply the rules manually.

 

[Razorguns]

check out the prices.

www.sub300.com

f'n amazing. i see so many opportunities in government, library, medical and business environments for low-cost, durable, stable, easily-maintained computer workstations. Microcrap could be stuck with the stigma of being the "home" computer guys. hahaha.

Whoever said they were unemployed and needed money. Use your creativity and knock yourself out.

 

[Dial_tone]

The store will go out of business within a year after opening.

GAIM sucks major ass, randomly disconnects all day long.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again (and I like linux):

Linux will NEVER beat out windows in the desktop arena.
Even fedora, which is about the best desktop any distro can muster up blows in comparison to windows for the average user.

It doesn't have auto-installers, RPM is nowhere near installshield.
The software suites for it suck, OpenOffice is light years behind MS Office.
It lacks the intuition required for the average end user.

Developers for linux distros ignore the fact that they NEED to comply. Take AudiPlayer for Red Hat, it cannot legally play MP3s. They assume everyone out there will either hack it or simply download an earlier version.

No distro currently connects seemlessly to DFS.

Linux's best e-mail client, Ximian, is seriously lacking when compared to Outlook. The rule filtering isn't automatic, you have to apply the rules manually.

Linux has a slim chance in corporate environments where there will be somebody to fix all those oddities before you touch the system. Sun's deskop linux is very polished. I'm on Gaim everyday and I couldn't tell you the last disconnect I had. My problem with OpenOffice is that it does a terrible job with MS Office templates.

 

[Code]

There are MAJOR differences between Sun and regular RISC-based distros.

For one, sun's distro is built from a very very stable unix distro (sun).
Another is it's "community source" not open source. Meaning you can get the source code and mess with it, but your changes do not ever make it to the main distro, just your build.

Why is this a slightly better model? Control and stability. Someone is *paid* to do these, it's their job. Does this mean it's always better, nope, but it does mean there is a large motivating factor in it's success.

Linux has a slim chance in corporate environments where there will be somebody to fix all those oddities before you touch the system. Sun's deskop linux is very polished. I'm on Gaim everyday and I couldn't tell you the last disconnect I had. My problem with OpenOffice is that it does a terrible job with MS Office templates.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

The store will go out of business within a year after opening.

GAIM sucks major ass, randomly disconnects all day long.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again (and I like linux):

Linux will NEVER beat out windows in the desktop arena.
Even fedora, which is about the best desktop any distro can muster up blows in comparison to windows for the average user.

It doesn't have auto-installers, RPM is nowhere near installshield.
The software suites for it suck, OpenOffice is light years behind MS Office.
It lacks the intuition required for the average end user.

Developers for linux distros ignore the fact that they NEED to comply. Take AudiPlayer for Red Hat, it cannot legally play MP3s. They assume everyone out there will either hack it or simply download an earlier version.

No distro currently connects seemlessly to DFS.

Linux's best e-mail client, Ximian, is seriously lacking when compared to Outlook. The rule filtering isn't automatic, you have to apply the rules manually.

I cut my programming teeth on Unix Version 6, many many moons ago. After windows came into play it was clear to me that people were focusing on the WRONG things. The OS isn't squat if the consumer USER applications aren't in place. Only the techies give a crap about the OS's. Those who actually WORK for their living are just concerned about the TOOLS that will make their jobs easier, quicker, simpler to do.

I almost printed up a shirt that has the various OS' with a huge red circle surrounding them with a huge slash across it saying "It's the APPLICATIONS stupid!"

 

[Dial_tone]

I thought Sun's distro was just a stable Suse.

 

[Code]

The kernel is built from sunOS.
But they offer two versions, one compatible with suse and one with red hat enterprise.

Essentially it's sun's kernel services running red hat or suse's presentation.
Meaning you get RPMs with red hat or YAST with suse. (Other differences are covered on the site, but those are the biggies)

Most all linux shops need to have not only sys admins but also developers to maintain compliancy from desktop to servers. Or they simply do not run anything distributed and complicated.

I thought Sun's distro was just a stable Suse.

 

[Code]

This was the EXACT title of a recent developer's summit regarding some department of defense compliancy concerns.

I almost printed up a shirt that has the various OS' with a huge red circle surrounding them with a huge slash across it saying "It's the APPLICATIONS stupid!"

 

[strongsmartsexy]

This was the EXACT title of a recent developer's summit regarding some department of defense compliancy concerns.

Seriously?

 

[Code]

Yes. The summit was all about how to develop a hardened OS that would also garner end-user acceptance.

Seriously?

 

[strongsmartsexy]

Yes. The summit was all about how to develop a hardened OS that would also garner end-user acceptance.

What is their definition of "hardened"?

In the end, it's going to be cost of the platform in a spreadsheet against other similar machines. No one seems to want to PAY for security, they just want everything "secure". MS has an interesting patent on a "secure" OS. It's one hell of a boring read though.

 

[Code]

Common Criteria compliant and a couple of FIPs compliancies as well.

What is their definition of "hardened"?

In the end, it's going to be cost of the platform in a spreadsheet against other similar machines. No one seems to want to PAY for security, they just want everything "secure". MS has an interesting patent on a "secure" OS. It's one hell of a boring read though.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

Common Criteria compliant and a couple of FIPs compliancies as well.

Oh goody. FIPs compliance. Can you spell DOA?

 

[Code]

LOL, I know.

I just tell people, "Hey I don't make the rules, just break 'em"

But then I only consult to the DoD part-time, and mostly just to keep my clearance active.

Oh goody. FIPs compliance. Can you spell DOA?

 

[Buddy_Christ]

i never had problems with GAIM until i tried to update from version 0.68 to 0.74. in the end, i think the problem was between the keyboard and the chair. i was using a terminal logging in as root instead of actually BEING root. ran into the same problem when trying to install java, and eventualy logged in as root and opened a terminal....java installed.

as far as GAIM goes, however, no problems on my end. 0.68 was good, and i think before that i was running 0.58 or 0.6 or something. don't remember exactly. in any case, the only problem i ever had with GAIM was the lack of ability to direct connect. people could file transfer to me as long as a direct conect wasn't opened, but i could not do file transfers back.

i started using Mandrake 9.1 as an alternative to XP. printing was horrible, CUPS was not a help. i had multiple problems and would end up booting into windows to print. i didn't mind using Evolution for my mail. i actually liked the program. applying the filters was somewhat of a task, but i didn't mind.

multiple desktops is a feature i miss.

stability was excellent. i had been up for 74 or 76 days when a damn power outage caused me to go down.

when i get bored of XP, i'll end up going back into mandrake. it is nice to see a store promoting linux like that though. it's not that hard to run, even as a non-programmer. most programs come with a read me file that walk you through the installation process. simple enough for anyone to do.

diskdrake rocks too. when i added a second hard drive to the computer last year, i used diskdrake instead of fdisk to partition the drives. a LOT less hassle and done right the first time

 

[Code]

True, most READMEs are very very easy to follow.
It's decyphering a ./configure when it errors out that people get tripped up on. Most people don't understand dependencies, and most never will.

it's not that hard to run, even as a non-programmer. most programs come with a read me file that walk you through the installation process. simple enough for anyone to do.

)

 

[Buddy_Christ]

i understand dependencies quite well.

my mother was dependant on ripping off my grandmother to fuel her drug and alcohol habits as well as to please her dickwad husband. since i have taken that priveledge away from them, she has to now find someone else to de dependant on for her money. hopefully she ODs and dies soon.

well, i'm not 100% sure she was fueling a drug and alcohol habit, but she's been in rehab before only to relapse and go back to being the piece of shit she is. i wouldn't doubt if she was fueling her habits off of my grandmother's money.

see, i got tihs dependencies shit figured out quite well

 

[Dial_tone]

True, most READMEs are very very easy to follow.
It's decyphering a ./configure when it errors out that people get tripped up on. Most people don't understand dependencies, and most never will.

My pet peeve is man pages without command line examples.

 

[Razorguns]

You're forgetting something...

the new future involves mainly internet-based applications. Meaning if these machines do the job of running internet-apps real well and browsing (as well as emailing and simple word processing, etc. type tasks) -- many companies may decide it's MUCH more feasible to stock the lower realm of the company with $1000 linux boxes instead of $2500 dell machines which continually need more customer support, upgrades and replacements (as well as MUCH more prone to hacking and all it's associated problems).

Just off the top of my head i see great uses as web browers in waiting rooms at the DMV. Kiosks. Reservation computers at airports. Desktops in upscale business hotel rooms. Cheap. Reliable. Dependable. And we all know what happens when a certain o/s starts taking over 5% of the market. Then it's 10%. The it's 30%.

When the public starts "noticing" a new desktop, it generates "interest". Interest generates "opportunity". Opportunity generates a whole new industry.

Very little on most machiens can't be duplicated by a non-MS company. Browsing. Photoshop. Email. Flash. MP3 playing. CD Burning. Instant Messaging. All that shit is done by non-MS companies and can easily be ported over. Microsoft knows this and for ONCE in almost 20+ years -- MS *can* lose market share. Fuck yeah!

MS has the foothold on device drivers, plug and play, .net software development, sql server, directx for games, and microsoft office. Once it loses that advantage -- game over.