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T3 and muscle loss
- Thread starter dcronin
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RADAR
Well-known member
moonshinetattoos
New member
RADAR said:
Needs to be made a sticky!
I made a mistake of running t3 by it self in the past and it literally stripped muscles of my body so fast it made my head spin. This stuff was amazingly efficient at it i must say, i almost admire it capabilities to do that. Needless to say you need to rum an anabolic with it, or else you're screwed. Ohh and i only took 25 mcg.
GREGORY said:
I was taking anavar and testosterone and I *still* lost muscle. And T3 drastically lowered my thyroid output according to bloodtests I had done several weeks afterward - this happened to several friends of mine as well.(not into hypothyroid range, but much lower.)...all of this with only 25mcg of cytomel.
This may not happen to you of course, but I would not recommend T3 to anyone. The risks are too great, IMO.
DIVISION said:eh, Po-Po.....
I'm taking T3 @ 100MCG ed while running Winny @ 50MG and I've seen nothing but impressive results. I'm going to taper off the T3, but really I'm not worried about any long term thyroid suppression.
DIV
Its impossible to not lose weight at 100mcg. You know div, I felt the same way about T3 before I actually saw my bloodtest results, that I would be perfectly fine running low doses with tapering. But the bloodtests of myself and some friends revealed problems - my TSH raised by about 2 points - while it didn't put me into hypothyroid range, it is signifigant.
My metabolism went from superfast to average or perhaps below average - and for that I wish I had never used T3.
I would be wary of armour thyroid - I have read some research that shows that the body will build antibodies to it much more quickly than it does Triiodothyronin (t3) and thyroxine (t4).
And let me emphasize - I did not "feel" a crash after I quit T3. If I had not had a bloodtest done, I never would have known....Of course my doc insisted everything was okay, but my TSH was much higher than it should have been. The attitude of most doctors is, if its in the normal range you're okay...even if you're within .1 point of the worst part of normal range.
I strongly disagree with that because the higher part of normal range is reserved for those that are much older than I.
And let me emphasize - I did not "feel" a crash after I quit T3. If I had not had a bloodtest done, I never would have known....Of course my doc insisted everything was okay, but my TSH was much higher than it should have been. The attitude of most doctors is, if its in the normal range you're okay...even if you're within .1 point of the worst part of normal range.
I strongly disagree with that because the higher part of normal range is reserved for those that are much older than I.
Uh, There's a test for thyroglobulin antibodies. Get it done sometime.
http://www.antibodyassay.com/testinfo/thyroid_antibodies.htm
I have talked to a few endos here that use armour, and they say that more frequent
dosage adjustments are necessary with armour becuase the body seems to develop
antibodies to it more quickly than synthetic T3/T4.
I don't remember where I saw research on it though, i'll check.
http://www.antibodyassay.com/testinfo/thyroid_antibodies.htm
I have talked to a few endos here that use armour, and they say that more frequent
dosage adjustments are necessary with armour becuase the body seems to develop
antibodies to it more quickly than synthetic T3/T4.
I don't remember where I saw research on it though, i'll check.
gjohnson5
New member
poantrex said:
This is not in reference to people taking dessicated thyroid or liquid t3. This is in refernce to people who have developed an autoimmune disorder from thier own thyroid's production of hormones, wheather hypothyroid or hyperthyroid. And There's nothing in this that talks about shutdown from supplementing t3 in any form hyperthyroid or supplementation.
ohashi
New member
I never understood how people manage to lose muscle with T3. There must be another factor at play here that I do not understand (I suspect it's a shitty diet and eating frequency, no matter what anyone says). I have ran anywhere from 25mcg to 150mcg daily, and have not lost muscle. At 150mcg, my TSH was at 0.01, I believe.
T3 increases the rate of both catabolism and anabolism in the body - making them both faster (depending on dosage). All I did was inceare my meal frequency to 12 (from 9), and voila - no muscle loss.
T3 increases the rate of both catabolism and anabolism in the body - making them both faster (depending on dosage). All I did was inceare my meal frequency to 12 (from 9), and voila - no muscle loss.
juve
New member
There is a rationale behind it: synthetically induced hyperthyroidism has been shown to:ohashi said:
1)increase SHBG levels
2)decrease free Testosterone levels
3)elevate estradiol and progesterone serum concentrations
4)higher rates of androgen:estrogen conversion
5)decreased insulin secretion
^^not an anabolic environment if you're 'natural', eh?
Chopra IJ, Tulchinsky D. Status of estrogen-androgen balance in hyperthyroid men with Graves' disease. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1974 Feb;38(2):269-77.
Ridgway EC, Maloof F, Longcope C. Androgen and oestrogen dynamics in hyperthyroidism. J Endocrinol. 1982 Oct;95(1):105-15
Lovejoy JC, Smith SR, Bray GA, Veldhuis JD, Rood JC, Tulley R. Effects of experimentally induced mild hyperthyroidism on growth hormone and insulin secretion and sex steroid levels in healthy young men. Metabolism. 1997 Dec;46(12):1424-8
Loric S, Duron F, Guechot J, Aubert P, Giboudeau J. Testosterone and its binding in hyperthyroid women before and under antithyroid drug therapy. Acta Endocrinol (Copenh). 1989 Sep;121(3):443-6.
Southren AL, Olivo J, Gordon GG, Vittek J, Brener J, Rafii F. The conversion of androgens to estrogens in hyperthyroidism. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1974 Feb;38(2):207-14.
On top of that:
1)increased oxidative energy metabolism (calorie deficit would further skew homeostasis)
2)increased Na/K/Ca ATPase which would be a sign of increased metabolism but in calorie deficit (cutting - that's what T3 is for ain't it) maintaining these substrates is virtually impossible which leads to cell death
3)increased heart work - heart want more energy/ATP
Clin Endocrinol (Oxf) 1980 Nov;13(5):489-506 Metabolic aspects of the calorigenic effect of thyroid hormone in mammals. Sestoft L.
Annu Rev Nutr 1995;15:263-91 Thermogenesis and thyroid function. Freake HC, Oppenheimer JH
Clin Endocrinol (Oxf) 1980 Nov;13(5):489-506 Metabolic aspects of the calorigenic effect of thyroid hormone in mammals. Sestoft L.
Endocrinology 2002 Feb;143(2):504-10 Are the effects of T3 on resting metabolic rate in euthyroid rats entirely caused by T3 itself? Moreno M, Lombardi A, Beneduce L, Silvestri E, Pinna G, Goglia F, Lanni A
Concomittant administration of androgens is recommended but could be avoided by maintaing proper nutrition level and supplementing with 'stuff'
If your going to take t3, please don’t over do it. You'll shut down your natural t3 for a long time, and end up fatter. There is little "post cycle therapy" to raise your t3 back to normal out there. It will take up to 2 months to get your t3 back. What I suggest is take your morning temp on no stimulants. Your goal should be to bring it to 98.2f (morning temp only counts!). Start off by taking small amounts of t3, increasing every 5 days, until you have reached this point. Anything over and you fuck your natural t3. At 98.2f morning temp, make sure its stable, then keep your t3 dose at that level. Your not going to need a lot of it. Add clen, phen, eca, anything you like to after your temp is set.
