systema... curious indeed

[casualbb]

I was reading across the systema main site and found this:

http://www.russianmartialart.com/main.php?page=m_secretsystem

As I'm reading this, I'm thinking... "how could this possibly work, there's so little margin for error." but hey, everything else I've seen suggests that this Vlad guy is near-invincible, which itself sounds outrageous

 

[Sy Ali]

I was reading across the systema main site and found this:

http://www.russianmartialart.com/main.php?page=m_secretsystem

As I'm reading this, I'm thinking... "how could this possibly work, there's so little margin for error." but hey, everything else I've seen suggests that this Vlad guy is near-invincible, which itself sounds outrageous

There's lots of margin for error. Don't get into the fight (don't have ego/pride), diminish anger before things get bad (bow to their ego/pride, use psychological tricks), get out of the way of strikes (move, use psychology, whatever), deflect attacks and keep moving, deflect attacks and stay close, deflect attacks with the body, take blows with breathing.

But was there a specific example you had from that article?


Keep researching, the stories get really really outrageous. Then take a look at the credentials of the storytellers (or ask them). It appears to me that Vladimir's not shy about having people drop by and ask hard questions or "try stuff out". I don't think his teacher Mikhail Ryabko is very shy either.

The primary teachers aside, i'm only beginning to hear some of the more interesting stories surrounding the senior students.

--

example from thread 934:

(source)

Floyd Brown, a London-based personal trainer, self-defence instructor and martial artist, recently won the WKKC Freestyle Fighting Heavyweight World Title with a 2nd round tap-out. Floyd now holds British, European and World Heavyweight Championship belts in Thai boxing, kickboxing and Total Combat. Floyd feels he owes a lot of his success to his technical advisor - Steve Morris.

(source)

On the 2003 trip to Moscow Floyd was used in a demo with Sergi demonstrating a Systema person's ability to take punches, because Floyd is a big strong guy with vast experience in MA. Despite his strongest and very fast punches Sergei was unphased. This demo was more about breathing, tension/relaxation enregy, etc than it was systema movement. IMO

Later in the trip Floyd was working with Mikhail and did not take a punch too well. To his credit it was a hard hit and from Mikhail mind you. There was no anger or malicious intent on either side, but Floyd's ribs were injured. I am not sure if they were broken, fractured, or just very bruised. Anyway it later became a little bit of a joke that his new name should be Loyd because Mikhail knocked the "F" out of him. It was all taken well.

Riviting stuff..

 

[casualbb]

I'm suppose I'm referring to his philosophy on ground work

"don't block or cover, this reduces vision."
"evade blows by rolling, redirecting attacking energy" etc

You gotta be REALLY on the ball, cause you're not covering up. Say you screw up the evade -- wham, pummeled.

 

[Sy Ali]

"don't block or cover, this reduces vision."
"evade blows by rolling, redirecting attacking energy" etc

Reduce vision towards one circumstance and overall you're survival goes down.. think in terms of multiple (skilled) opponents.

The motion to block and cover also breeds a lot of tension. Frankly, when you block and take a hit badly with the block it hurts a heck of a lot more than taking the hit well with a relaxed body. Well, maybe I shouldn't say that since I've never blocked with tension and I'm not so relaxed as to take anything past an amateur's punch.

Or maybe think from this perspective: By "cowering", you're being psychologically damaged. By staying relaxed and connected to the moment you're feeding your own confidence and instinct for survival.

Yeah, the evasion is tricky stuff at first, but wielding a kind of movement that never stops makes a practitioner a very difficult target. Even movement internally becomes a great last-resort.. being able to take a punch seems to be one of Systema's strongest assets.

You gotta be REALLY on the ball, cause you're not covering up. Say you screw up the evade -- wham, pummeled.

I totally see where you're coming from, and I'd bow to the wisdom of the obvious if I hadn't seen it for myself... think along these lines: If you punch me and I stand there, it'll hurt. What if I'm already moving away? The strike will probably mean less. It's a kind of generic safety measure that doesn't rely on the sorts of astounding reflexes and timing which specific blocks would.

Moving the body itself to absorb a hit is like that too.. when the body is relaxed and one's instincts are allowed to deal with the strike nicely, a strike means a lot less.

All that stuff is going on, all the while the Systema guy is continuing to move to get back into a good position again.. no motion is wasted.


My apologies.. I totally suck at groundwork, so it's tough for me to really describe things geared towards your perspective.

 

[SLIGHTLY STOOPID]

Systema is the real deal. Its combat oriented and not for the ring. Big difference in the two. Do you want to survive or score points?

 

[Judo Tom]

yeah but sport based martial arts def. have there value and many people who train in sport based arts(bjj/judo/sambo/wrestling/boxing) are deadly on the street because they are able to practice/spar against people in situations where both people can go 100% and neither person knows what the other person is doing..

i think that is the biggest benefit to all the sport systems is the sparring..

 

[casualbb]

Okay, since I posted this originally ive LEARNED the groundwork that was discussed.

Let's just say, it does work, I can take people down from a prone position

 

[Debaser]

Okay, since I posted this originally ive LEARNED the groundwork that was discussed.

Let's just say, it does work, I can take people down from a prone position

I think you mean supine. You can take people down while you're on your back, right?

Goddamn I'm anal.

 

[casualbb]

i'll kill you...

you're right, i mean supine. but now that I think about it I can also do prone, same principles

 

[Kane Fan]

yeah but sport based martial arts def. have there value and many people who train in sport based arts(bjj/judo/sambo/wrestling/boxing) are deadly on the street because they are able to practice/spar against people in situations where both people can go 100% and neither person knows what the other person is doing..

i think that is the biggest benefit to all the sport systems is the sparring..

I would say you aer 100% on
if you get a standard traditional martial art
and they do point sparring
and they look for very light contact you might be throwing a punch wrong and no one really knows cus you get no true contact now you do that shit in a real fight you just kicked your own ass...
but in a sport like boxing where you spar and hit each other and compete etc, you will notice flaws
you don't see a lot of upset punches in boxing, why? cus it's more energy for less effect so fuck it
lol