Swimming the ultimate lat builder?

[Elementality]

what you guys think? I can deadlift, do pull ups, rows with lots of weight but I'll never get my back (especially lats) more sore or feeling of worked out than when after I swim.

I challenge any good body builder or power lifter here who considers himself to have a great back and to go into any kind of water and swim with the breast stroke for half an hour as fast/long as they can.

I think you'll find new types of soreness and weakness. Ive found that there isn't really anything you can do with weights that will help your swimming. The only thing is swimming. Just brings up an interesting idea in my head that swimming is such an isolated movement where no weight training helps it that it may be a very good supplement to anyones body building program.

 

[binö]

don't you think swimming is more of an aerobic type of workout?
like running or cycling? not really gonna build muscle mass, but gonna build muscle endurance
imo

 

[Synpax]

Sure, they can help build lats. This is phelps before he started lifting.
http://towleroad.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/03/27/phelps2.jpg

But weights apparently can help your swimming as phelps has started lifting.

You're confusing strength with stamina, though, but it probably is a good supplement for a BBer. Low impact, full body, etc.

 

[deathdroprob]

Ive done more than half hour of breast stroke.
Did Nothing.
Any muslce built from them would be more adaption like when when skinny teenagers start workoing on construction sights, and within a few months their a bit bigger

 

[silver_shadow]

Ive done more than half hour of breast stroke.
Did Nothing.
Any muslce built from them would be more adaption like when when skinny teenagers start workoing on construction sights, and within a few months their a bit bigger

exactly. it has it's limitation. the bigger you are the less likely it will build anything...

the cause of soreness is because of your lack of endurance not because it's causing muscle growth.

think about it - how many swimmers do you know with 50 inch chests? now how many weightlifters and bodybuilders do you know with 50 inch chests?

 

[billfred]

don't you think swimming is more of an aerobic type of workout?
like running or cycling? not really gonna build muscle mass, but gonna build muscle endurance
imo

The first real uppper body weight I ever gained came from swimming. I get better muscle results from swimming than I do anything.

 

[silver_shadow]

The first real uppper body weight I ever gained came from swimming. I get better muscle results from swimming than I do anything.

sure - how big are you? when you gained the first time you were a novice.

 

[GUARDIAN]

i am sure you could gain some if u r new to it just from the pure shock of it but beyond that i wouldnt expect much in the way of future gains.

u want to kick your lats into overdrive? throw in heavy dumbell pullovers and concentrate pulling with your lats (not chest or tris).

 

[billfred]

sure - how big are you? when you gained the first time you were a novice.

Probably most of it. I have been a hard gainer all my life. I took up swimming at abou the same time my metabalism started slowing down. I probably put on about 15 lbs up weight - mostly upper body.

Go out and swim a couple of miles two or three times a week and see what your muscles do before you criticize too much. There is something to it.

 

[GUARDIAN]

Probably most of it. I have been a hard gainer all my life. I took up swimming at abou the same time my metabalism started slowing down. I probably put on about 15 lbs up weight - mostly upper body.

Go out and swim a couple of miles two or three times a week and see what your muscles do before you criticize too much. There is something to it.

i have swam most of my life. certified life guard, swim team in high school, etc.

am i qualified to criticize too much?

 

[billfred]

i have swam most of my life. certified life guard, swim team in high school, etc.

am i qualified to criticize too much?

See that is why you are so jacked!!

 

[GUARDIAN]

See that is why you are so jacked!!

lol....i just had to give u a hard time. i wish i could get like this from swimming

swimming i must admit is an all around great exercise but there comes a point where u need the added resistance of weights

 

[Cal_21]

I need to join a gym with a pool

I miss swimming i was the leanest i ever was when I was able to swim on top of everything else.

 

[binö]

i am sure you could gain some if u r new to it just from the pure shock of it but beyond that i wouldnt expect much in the way of future gains.

u want to kick your lats into overdrive? throw in heavy dumbell pullovers and concentrate pulling with your lats (not chest or tris).[/QUOTE]
pullups bro
the 80 pullup scheme is tight for lats (at least for me)
i feel that for days afterward

 

[silver_shadow]

i am sure you could gain some if u r new to it just from the pure shock of it but beyond that i wouldnt expect much in the way of future gains.

u want to kick your lats into overdrive? throw in heavy dumbell pullovers and concentrate pulling with your lats (not chest or tris).[/QUOTE]
pullups bro
the 80 pullup scheme is tight for lats (at least for me)
i feel that for days afterward

have your deads or barbell rows improved on that program?

 

[GUARDIAN]

i am sure you could gain some if u r new to it just from the pure shock of it but beyond that i wouldnt expect much in the way of future gains.

u want to kick your lats into overdrive? throw in heavy dumbell pullovers and concentrate pulling with your lats (not chest or tris).

pullups bro
the 80 pullup scheme is tight for lats (at least for me)
i feel that for days afterward

i do wide grip pullups (50 reps no matter how many sets it takes). follow it up with the pullovers for a couple weeks and tell me how u feel

 

[Elementality]

yes, you guys are right about endurance vs mass as a result from swimming. I think I may have approached this thread incorrectly by saying the "ultimate lat builder". What i meant was, the back is a tough thing to work without bringing in other muscles, especially your arms. But when you swim, you get what a lot of surfers call the "bicep burn" but its really the back thats being worked the most. For me, on a surfboard my shoulder blades are forced to be locked back and low, squeezed together and the pulling motion is like doing pullups, only with 1/10th the weight, but with 300 reps type of thing. With swimming, i think you may use your arms/shoulders a little bit more since you have no board underneath you, but the movement is still the same.

Take a look at any professional surfer and see how wide n thick their backs are. Same with olympic swimmers. You know what i mean, when someones got that loose t shirt on with that great posture and really wide back, it really amplifies their image. I think the closest thing to swimming would be pull-ups which are really a good body shaper too.

So, in correction, I think the name of the thread should be "swimming, the ultimate back shaper". not muscle mass builder.

 

[binö]

have your deads or barbell rows improved on that program?

i just started dl'ing again so i don't know how much of an effect they will have...though i wouldn't expect a tie in between pullup strength and dl's, would you?
i can go months without dl'ing, but as long as i'm squatting/doing good mornings my dl doesn't go down much...i pull sumo style, so i think the upper back muscles worked is minimal

 

[the_alcatraz]

It is a great lat builder, but to me swimmers have the worst bodies, no offense to anyone....they have extremely over-developed lats and exaggerated shoulder width....skinny arms, skinny legs, and 12-yr old girl's chest - flat....

My friend was a champion swimmer - that's were I base my info...his entire team had the above characteristics...

 

[Elementality]

It is a great lat builder, but to me swimmers have the worst bodies, no offense to anyone....they have extremely over-developed lats and exaggerated shoulder width....skinny arms, skinny legs, and 12-yr old girl's chest - flat....

My friend was a champion swimmer - that's were I base my info...his entire team had the above characteristics...

Thats probably because at a competition level they didnt have time to lift weights and get that heavy bulky muscles that could maybe slow them down or make them tired. Im saying swimming + weight lifting = Great back

Kelly slater professional surfer doesn't go to the gym ever to lift weights, very rarely, because he says for every rep he does, it will make him that much more tired when he's paddling in the ocean with 20 foot waves. A lot of endurance athletes can't "waste" their energy on the weight room.

 

[silver_shadow]

i just started dl'ing again so i don't know how much of an effect they will have...though i wouldn't expect a tie in between pullup strength and dl's, would you?
i can go months without dl'ing, but as long as i'm squatting/doing good mornings my dl doesn't go down much...i pull sumo style, so i think the upper back muscles worked is minimal

true that!

 

[deathdroprob]

yes, you guys are right about endurance vs mass as a result from swimming. I think I may have approached this thread incorrectly by saying the "ultimate lat builder". What i meant was, the back is a tough thing to work without bringing in other muscles, especially your arms. But when you swim, you get what a lot of surfers call the "bicep burn" but its really the back thats being worked the most. For me, on a surfboard my shoulder blades are forced to be locked back and low, squeezed together and the pulling motion is like doing pullups, only with 1/10th the weight, but with 300 reps type of thing. With swimming, i think you may use your arms/shoulders a little bit more since you have no board underneath you, but the movement is still the same.

Take a look at any professional surfer and see how wide n thick their backs are. Same with olympic swimmers. You know what i mean, when someones got that loose t shirt on with that great posture and really wide back, it really amplifies their image. I think the closest thing to swimming would be pull-ups which are really a good body shaper too.

So, in correction, I think the name of the thread should be "swimming, the ultimate back shaper". not muscle mass builder.

Why not just do pulldowns? Except with a 6th of the weight and alot less reps?

 

[silver_shadow]

Why not just do pulldowns? Except with a 6th of the weight and alot less reps?

the problem with pulldowns as compared to pull ups in general is that you inevitably find various ways to cheat... one way would possibly be to use the leverage that you gain from having your legs under a pad. maybe that's why pulldown strength doesn't translate into pullup strength - for some reason (maybe what i stated above) they seem to be 2 different animals.

 

[GUARDIAN]

it is easy to cheat on pullups as well.

 

[silver_shadow]

it is easy to cheat on pullups as well.

but you won't do it if you don't want to. with pull downs it just happens inevitably!

 

[tropo]

What i meant was, the back is a tough thing to work without bringing in other muscles, especially your arms. But when you swim, you get what a lot of surfers call the "bicep burn" but its really the back thats being worked the most.

If you can develop an efficient freestyle stroke, you'll eliminate too much shoulder and biceps work. You need to concentrate on using the shoulders only to lift the arm up out of the water and enter it again just past the ears... then concentrate on pushing the arm to full extension before pulling down. Done efficiently you'll do 99% of your pulling from the lats with the biceps only offering support to the arm.

Surfers will work their shoulders and biceps a lot more because of high position up on a surf board and the width of it requiring a wide paddle movement.

I can easily swim 3 - 5 km of freestyle the day after a back and shoulder workout (usually I go for 2 km). I'll feel a little burning in the lats for the first 10 - 20 laps, but nothing in the biceps or shoulders. I couldn't see swimming building up the lats of a serious bodybuilder.

I only swim for cardio...I build up my lats with iron in the gym.