"supreme"...

[b fold the truth]

I was reading on a thread where you were talking about standing and looking at your hip line in the mirror and how if it tilted fwd...it was bad. Mine does this and I really think that a lot of it is that I have a big and high butt...but I do have some fwd tilt...

Can you go more into detail with this and what you were talking about...

I appreciate it...

B True

 

[PatsFan34]

I thought I had something funny to say, but forget it!!!

 

[onerepmaximum]

I was hoping this thread was about pizza. I'm not sure that I understand the hip line though. Are you talking about from the side view?

 

[supreme]

The way to tell if you have an anterior tilt to your pelvis is to stand against a wall with your heels, butt, rear delts, head touching the wall. Try to slide your hand between the wall & your lumbar spine. If the hand fits behind with lots of room or goes easily out the other side you have a tilted pelvis (you can also get checked by a good therapist, trainer etc. with a goinometer or inclinometer to get a exact degree of rotation reading)

Assuming your spinal erectors, hams & lower section of the rectus abdominus are strong, then it is probably due to tight hip flexors.

They can get tight do to sitting too long, doing too many crunches especially with your feet locked and heavy powerlifting style deadlifts or wearing high-heels (I hope its not the last one)

You probably need to stretch, lay off cunches, do more ham & low back work and target the lower rectus & internal obliques to correct this.

Hope this helped!

S

 

[PatsFan34]

Holy shit, I thought this happened to me cause I do squats and I got a bubble butt, I can really put my hand through my lower back when standing up straight against a wall, this turned out to be a great fucking post, thanks guys!!!

 

[supreme]

Well squats can make it worse if don't use full R.O.M and start with your butt sticking out i.e. pelvis rotated forward.

You can fix it, just takes some time and effort. You need to focus on obtaining and maintaining a neutral pelvis during all your activities especially lifting. Your body will always retreat to your position of strength. So if you do all your lifting with a forward tilt, you will keep re-enforcing the tilt.

also when the hip flexors are dominant you get reciprocal inhibition of the glutes i.e. nerve impulses travel the path of least resistance, the law of facilitation states the more a muscle is recruited the easier and faster it is recruited the next time etc. So nerve impulses go to the hip flexors and not to the glutes, the glutes are inhibited leaving weak, soft flabby asses

So now I have explained why a lot of aerobics chicks who do crunches, run, spin and wear high heels have flabby butts (all over recruit the hip flexors)
and the babes who weight train correctly with full ROM have tight ases- god I love tight asses!


Sorry for going off on the tight ass tangent, but flabby assesd aerobic chicks annoy me!!!

S

 

[bignate73]

speaking on ant. pelvic tilts is all well and good. but the assessment process for someone may not be as simple as just standing against the wall. extreme amounts of muscle as bfold may have in his upper back and glutes can skew the assessment. though none of us is posturally neutral, its also realistic to argue that athletic movements are not all performed with neutral spine. squatting with a neutral spine is preferred, but not realistic on a PL'ing style squat. thought it would be ideal to activate the inner unit, maintain neutral spine and have equal length tension relationships, it just wont happen with extreme athletics. with the hips coming back as far as they do, there has to be some arch. otherwise it would be an extreme goodmorning squat. form decides the function in this case.

the heavy influx of "functional" training and "core" talk these days has led to a hypersensitivity in the training field to posture and deviations in the musculoskeletal system, almost to the point of having uninformed trainer's hands tied before they even have the client moving. there are numerous gurus and certifying bodies that use very clinical terminology to justify their claims. ive seen this in action and watched many trainers holding a client back because they couldnt pass an overhead squat assessment. incessantly foam rolling and static holding a client to death because of a slight deviation.

sorry to rant, its just a pet peeve of mine.

 

[b fold the truth]

If I stand agaisnt the wall and let my butt touch...my upper back is still MANY inches from the wall. When I press my upper back to the wall...I can slide a brick between my butt and my mid back...lol.

I think that I do have a fwd tilt...and have always had it though. I also lift with my butt stuck out and up...squatting should be done this way.

B True

 

[supreme]

Bignate, essentially right on all fronts, hence the reccomendation of a qualified examiner.

It all depends on the person & the movement (bodybuildiing vs. powerlifting vs. sportspecific etc.) , but from daily practical experience most people are tight in the hip flexors due to prolonged sitting & poor posture and exercise form - especailly women!

I find many guys train what they see in the mirror: Pecs, Ant. & lateral delts, bi's and rectus abdominus. They wear sweats and rarely do legs. - not saying any bro's here train this way, just what I obsserve daily

The goal of proper length-tension relationships will go a long in preventing injuries especailly in the low back. True neutral is virtually unheard of, but way too many people are anteriorly rotated. extreme muscle mass can skew tests thats why they need more of an independent assesment and individual muscle testing for strength and flexibility.

The ultimte goal should be effecient movement that is pain free with muscle and joints aligned to provide smooth, powerful movements.

All I'm saying while there will be some postural deviations due to amount of weight, lifting style & goals. The people I see are friggin clueless about correct from, functioning and athletic movements. They lift with their ego until they injure themselves and then they skip bodyparts, use girlie machines or quit all
together

Postural & muscle testing should enhance lifting, not prevent it but some people will need corrective exercises or they will develop chronic imbalances and injuries. Look around your gyms - how many people stand up straight?, how many dorks do curls in the power rack flexing their shoulders and hyperextending their back to get the weight up.

Guys can still train hard & heavy, just balance the muscles and stretch what is tight. Avoid the movements that can make your situation worse and use a proper ROM - lift with your muscles and not your ego

If you want to learn more about specific muscle & postural tests read "Muscels Testing & Function 4th Ed." by Kendall and Kendall

S

 

[b fold the truth]

Curious as to exactly what you would do to correct this. I am just looking at my belt line when I see this. I do have a VERY big butt.

I work with a lot of track athletes and most of the women on the track team have butts like mine...they start at the lower back and are FULL and thick. My belt has to go over my butt and I am used to wearing it naturally low in the front.

I'm pretty flexible throughout my body, do lots of full ROM sit-ups, train my hip flexors, etc...

I also don't see why you would want anyone to squat with their butt not sticking out and back though...

B True

 

[supreme]

If you have a an ant. tilt. you have to determine the cause:

Is it weak spinal erectors and or hams, weak lower rectus, tight quadratus, tight hip flexors or a combination?

The best way to look at it is to stretch what is tight & strengthen what is weak- hence the need for an asessment

for the average person it ususall means lots of posterior kinetic chain work, stretching the hip flexors, strengthening the TVA, lower rectus and internal obliques = the IO actually are considered lower abdominal muscles for they contribute up to 10 degrees of posterior rotation of the pelvis helping to offset an ant. tilt and avoiding full range abdominal flexion involving the hip flexors until any imbalance is corrected (later full range work can be added back)

The pelvic tilt exercise & lower abdominal progression are key with daily stretching of tight hip flexors (you need to det, if your 1 or 2 joint hip flexors are tight) - this will help reduce the ant. tilt


static stretching should only be done until tightness is eliminated and not before competition or heavy workouts for it will weaken muscle contraction and decrease force production due to GTO inhibition

Squatting in an ant. tilt increases the curve of the lumbar spine resulting in shear forces at L4/L5 & L5/S1 - the 2 most common sites of injury to the lumbar spine. Also, especially for women -if the pelvis is rotated forward, the knees automatically internally rotate resulting in a pronation distortion syndrome and further problems.

 

[collegiateLifter]

Bignate, essentially right on all fronts, hence the reccomendation of a qualified examiner.

This perhaps is even no simple task.



I have always thought i had really tight hip flexors.

can you recomend some good stretches for them?

 

[Lord_Suston]

B fold in your case I would assume really tight Psoas Major and Iliacus, Groin muscles that attach to L4-L3 vertebral body and the disk, they flex the hip but if the lowerback is really strong then they cause anterior hip flexion. JMO

 

[bignate73]

i agree.

 

[supreme]

The only thing before you start stretching is to det. what is tight, the 1 joint or 2 joint hip flexors. If your 2 joint hip flexors are not tight, then you run the risk of over stretching them making them lengthened and weak which can make joints unstable if you do lunging type stretches.

A quick way to determine what is tight is to have some one perform the Thomas test on you. Then you can pick the right stretches.

S

 

[supreme]

B fold:

I just read part of the post about your deadlift / hamstring problem.

Deabate on techniques aside etc. It is possible that your ham injury was due to a TVA weakness (if you have one) for a weak TVA contributes to an ant. tilt but it also leads to hamstring injuries for the TVA stabilizes the lumbar spine by its connection to the thoracolumbar fascia.

If the TVA is weak then the body over recruits the hams to try to increase spinal stabilization for the hams are connected to the TVA via the sacrotuberous ligamnet (this is what Janda refers to as the DLS - deep longitudinal system) - so with a weak TVA you over work the hams; very common in sprinters. I thought of this for you mentioned you work with track athletes.

So possibly you need some isolated TVA work to help with the ant. tilt & your hammies - just a thought, it still could be many other things

S

 

[coolcolj]

Those bulgarian split squat iso holds work a treat

 

[b fold the truth]

B fold:

I just read part of the post about your deadlift / hamstring problem.

Deabate on techniques aside etc. It is possible that your ham injury was due to a TVA weakness (if you have one) for a weak TVA contributes to an ant. tilt but it also leads to hamstring injuries for the TVA stabilizes the lumbar spine by its connection to the thoracolumbar fascia.

If the TVA is weak then the body over recruits the hams to try to increase spinal stabilization for the hams are connected to the TVA via the sacrotuberous ligamnet (this is what Janda refers to as the DLS - deep longitudinal system) - so with a weak TVA you over work the hams; very common in sprinters. I thought of this for you mentioned you work with track athletes.

So possibly you need some isolated TVA work to help with the ant. tilt & your hammies - just a thought, it still could be many other things

S

I try not to think about my hamstring to be honest. It is VERY rough to even think about. Haven't been that scared in a long time.

I believe that a lot of it was from being dehydrated and just a freak accident. No signs that this was going to take place. Who knows to be honest.

It was the bicep femoris (long head) all the way down to the calf.

Make me up a stretching plan for my hip flexors and everything else. I'll give it an honest shot.

B True

 

[supreme]

I wiil put something together at work tomorrow - I may need a scanner but first you need to do some testing.

i.e. find out which hip flexors are tight - if they are not tight, stretching may make it worse

Also need strength of the TVA & lower rectus, felxibility of the spinal erectors & quadratus?

I wiil try to locate the test info online & post it. I just don't want to give a bunch of stretches that may not help or may make it worse.

S

 

[bignate73]

good read in "back to basics"

http://www.yorkbarbell.com/sh_summer2001.pdf

 

[supreme]

actually bignate your wrong. its a f'in great article!!!

B - print out & read this article. It explains almost everything in my previous posts, it also has pictures & discriptions of the stretches.

Now you only need the tests to determine which muscles to stretch & possibly some TVA & lower rectus exercises.

You don't want to stretch muscles that don't need it for it wastes time and you can lengthen and weaken the muscle.

S

 

[b fold the truth]

Thanks guys...I'll get on it this week and I'll be back to ask more questions!!!!!

B True

 

[michaelm]

damn, I have this same problem..I had a hell of a time squatting today and trying to stop sticking my butt out. Just read the article and will definitley look more into this. Can a chiropractor be of any assistance?

 

[b fold the truth]

damn, I have this same problem..I had a hell of a time squatting today and trying to stop sticking my butt out. Just read the article and will definitley look more into this. Can a chiropractor be of any assistance?

I suggest sticking your butt out when squatting...safer that way.

B True

 

[michaelm]

thankx Bfold....I always thought it was safer, I know if felt odd trying to not stick it out..

 

[NWinters]

I can hardlt get my palm between my butt and back?....could be genitics?

 

[Debaser]

Thanks for the heads up. My anterior tilt is pretty bad too, and is probably the reason I have recurring hip problems (right around the greater trochanter, mainly on the right side).

I assuredly have tight hip flexors, which I am working on more thoroughly now, but I have a question:

I notice that you can use your glutes to align your pelvis (by sort of humping forward), or you can use your abs/obliques to do the same. Could this mean that my glutes/abs are too weak relative to the strength of my hip flexors and lower back? I doubt my glutes are weak, but it's possible that my abs are lagging behind.

With that, should I be trying to strengthen my abs whilst loosening my hip flexors?

 

[bignate73]

"I doubt my glutes are weak"

but if they are inhibited from your hip flexors being overly tight, in a sense they are weak. they cant fire off fully.

think opposites:
glute/hip flexor
ab/low back

if one is tightened, the other is lengthened. a lengthened muscle is not in its strongest position. also a muscle contracted or with excess tone will tend to relax its antagonist. ie, when you do a bicep curl, the triceps release to allow for flexion. if your hip flexors are tight, your glutes release.

arch your back really hard and watch what happens to your glutes. go ahead and give them a poke (not in the middle hehehe) and see how relaxed they are. bend at the hips and try to fire off your glutes without moving your hips, it doesnt happen unless your hip flexors release.

 

[delldell2]

Damn, I have a huge gap against the wall. But I don't have alot of mass. I'm actually really skinny.

When you say squat with a neutral spine, does that mean with no arch?

What can I do to fix it? Static hip flexor stretches. Anything else?