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Citruscide
Guest
This is important yo....
C-ditty
C-ditty
atlantabiolab
New member
bwood said:
They all have read it. It is just that some hate what it says.
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Citruscide
Guest
Y_Lifter said:
If you choose to read it like that... but it could also be important to young black males as well...
I prefer to look at it as important to our legal system and interpretation of laws... however.
C-ditty
bwood
Banned
Citruscide said:
i prefer to look at it as the same old tired liberal/commie
bullshit dance of demanding egality of outcome...
which is preceeded by their even more tiresome
mantra of legislating egality of opportunity...
which is impossible, of course, but serves to rope in
votes from all the usual mendicants who refuse to
look at the costs imposed on the economy and society
that serve to reduce overall opportunity much more than
any transient benefits resulting from any legislative attempt
at forced egality...
kinda like the results of all those years of communism
in the soviet union...
Well, the white males who are concerned need to first educate themselves about who the primary beneficiaries of AA has been. Its been white women. The ignorant thing to do is to equate AA with people of color but white women as also included in AA. So before any of you makes racist comments please keep in mind that your mothers, sisters, aunts, neices and daughters have been the primary benes' of AA.
Be mad all you want but its the truth. Its the same thing I told my classmates in my Constitutional law class when many of them made the arugument that AA discriminates against whites. No, just white men. They shut up when I revealed that white women where the primary benefs of AA. White mend are justified for being upset (at least those who dont get to benefit from their own AA i.e. good ole boy network)
Be mad all you want but its the truth. Its the same thing I told my classmates in my Constitutional law class when many of them made the arugument that AA discriminates against whites. No, just white men. They shut up when I revealed that white women where the primary benefs of AA. White mend are justified for being upset (at least those who dont get to benefit from their own AA i.e. good ole boy network)
atlantabiolab
New member
joack said:
And??? Factual exceptions do not always disprove ideas. You have not disproved this rule by showing us another group who benefits.
Rights are not for groups, they are for individuals. I could care if you showed me that this privilege benefited my momma, grandma, and wife, the "idea" of rights is that all people have them. If you accept the idea of granting privileges to certain groups, then you accept the idea of inequality, of oppression, of moral subjectivism.
Unfortunately you missed by point. Frequently on this board people think that AA benefits only black, latins asians etc. I suggested that those people should, perhaps educate themselves about who the primary bene's of AA really are before they open their mouths stating racist rhetoric. The purpose of my post wasn't meant to address the merits of AA. I was merely debunk the myth that AA is only for and only benefits people of color. Obviously white women have been historically discriminated against to and so they benefit from AA.atlantabiolab said:
C
Code
Guest
Citruscide said:
Of course they're split, since some of them got their jobs courtesy of it an the other half earned their jobs.
atlantabiolab said:
Re: Rights - When you say that rights are not for individuals please explain to me why there have been laws on the books forbidding women & Blacks from voting, owning land, using the same public facilities of whites. The rights that were taken away where designed to directly affect GROUPS---- OF--- PEOPLE.
I dont know what your momma benefitted from I'm just going by what our government says about the different minority groups. If she is a white woman she's apart of that class just like maybe your daughter, aunt, sister, wife are assuming they are white, thus they will have a greater chance at benefitting from AA than other women, namely women of color (who are recognize in 2 minority groups - women & black) If anything stats should show it to be the other way around, women of color should be benefitting from AA in disporportionate numbers due to this duality. Someone's been taking care of that we see.
S
Sundance
Guest
Can anyone define"minority"?
If one was born in lets say Eastern Europe and he is white would he be a minority?
Are Asians a minority?
Minority in itself is a biased term..
So besides blacks and hispanics who else fit the AA?
If one was born in lets say Eastern Europe and he is white would he be a minority?
Are Asians a minority?
Minority in itself is a biased term..
So besides blacks and hispanics who else fit the AA?
C
Code
Guest
Sundance said:
I think the only true minority is people with common sense.
That sure does explain why we have stupid laws like this one.
DeepZenPill
New member
Code said:
Well said. I've been singing this same song forever. I look around my campus and see the future leaders of this country. It's a sad sight; nobody has any common sense or rationality.
VicTusDeuS
New member
joack said:
Funny you bring that up considering the main plaintiff happens to be a white woman. In the past maybe it was meant to help white woman but many colleges and jobs only use it as a tool to accept minorities..
atlantabiolab
New member
joack said:
This is because man is not omniscient. With this limitation man must constantly search for "truths", be it scientific or moral. The examples you show are examples of man not understanding or rejecting the ideas of moral law and the evils that this permits. That being said, violations of moral laws do not inviolate the idea of moral law, as promoted by those who wish to grant privileges to some in society at the expense of others. It was wrong to deny men their rights in earlier times, so it is wrong to do so presently, as it will be to do so in the future.
out_at_sea
Banned
So who on earth would make a minority?
As far as I know blacks and hispanics?
Why not Asians?
As far as I know blacks and hispanics?
Why not Asians?
How can AA be for white women only? The very crux of the Supreme Court case was whether or not race should be allowed in determining admittance to a college program, not gender.
So, I think it is you who should educate yourself. Affirmative Action is supposed to benifit not only gender specifics, but race as well. So is eoe.
And, remember, it was two white women, One a succesful business woman, the other a highschool graduate with an A average who brought the case before the Supreme Court.
So, you see, AA does not in general help white women.
So, I think it is you who should educate yourself. Affirmative Action is supposed to benifit not only gender specifics, but race as well. So is eoe.
And, remember, it was two white women, One a succesful business woman, the other a highschool graduate with an A average who brought the case before the Supreme Court.
So, you see, AA does not in general help white women.
F
Frackal
Guest
AA wont last forever.....
C
Code
Guest
Hengst said:
You must have read Harrison Bergeron and thought it was a good idea.
C
Code
Guest
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I agree. So what do you suggest we do to prevent discrimination (assuming AA is gone). Will whites in positions of authorty/decision makers police themselves? Will the management at the Fortune 500 companies do away with the good ole boy network? What will you do to see that people are treat fairly and given access to jobs, education etc?atlantabiolab said:
bwood
Banned
Hengst said:
this is dangerous thinking...not all minority members want special treatment...many are offended by AA as it demeans the struggle they undertook to become a success...
the biggest problem by far, is apologist white liberals...
and, i know plenty of minority folks that can compete with the white race just fine...dont let subjective rhetoric cloud your thinking like this, it is a tool that white liberals use to discredit and defame your position on white pride...which is fine in and of itself...
Level the playing field first. Which means better schools in Black neighborhoods, equal treatment re: health care, business loans, community policing, drugs, etc. Which also means not seeing me as a "black" man" first instead of seeing me as a man. Respect me as your equal instead of thinking that whites are intellectually superior over blacks. We come from poverty and poor school systems and are forced to compete with the world. ANd you know what, we do. Some of us actually make it past the drugs, crime and poverty but we still dont get the respect thats due nor are we treated as equals. We've made contibutions to this country in many areas, things that you see in every day life (e.g. refrigerated systems on desiel trucks, stop lights, etc) and we've done this by overcoming all of our obstacles.Hengst said:
I wont delineate the different obstacles that we have to over come. But I'll tell you this, you couldn't compete with me if you came from the same conditions that most blacks come from and I bet you wouldn't accomplish what I have either. Your skin color means nothing to me intellectually or otherwise but you go on believing that whites are superior to blacks.
When whites begin to police themselves and stop their own AA amongst themselves informally (which exist today) then we should do away with AA in general.
VicTusDeuS
New member
Yeah the white man is just evil...maybe when the black man stops putting the blame on the white man AA will be gone...But as I noticed here, it seems like that will never change.
C
Code
Guest
Ole Kurt Vonnegut is prolly enjoying watching AA and all you liberals bringing his novel to life.
Vic, nobody mentioned evil. You're being a bit creative. I personally believe that AA should be extended to everybody who comes from a lower economic & social background.VicTusDeuS said:
Re: Blame. Their should be blame on those who have an agenda and will only cater to their own race, this is why alot of companies' managment remain white. Is it not? Is the blame misplaced? I dont get it. SO when fortune 500 companies like Texaco doesn't want Black execs in their company who should Blacks blame? Who should we hold accountable? And more importantly shouldn't you and all other whites hold them accountable and hold other institutions accountable for this ongoing practice? Perhaps Blacks should blame themselves for not being white.
The reality is is that even with AA discrim still exists, perhaps we should stop seeing color first and then maybe people in places of power and authority will feel comfortable with us both socially and professionally. Thats when real change will occur.
bwood
Banned
Code said:
yep...i feel that i am often discriminated against due to my height(6'2") and my weight (235)...
i need AA for my lost opportunties due to "sizeism..."
i want to be a physics professor and teach...i didnt get the job because i have no qualifications, instead, i was discriminated against because of my size...
federal govt...help me!!!
C
Code
Guest
bwood said:
Handicapper General would simply cut you off at the knees.
No more discrimiation for you!
Ffactor
New member
I think some of you guys are stupid. I don't see what Alcoholics Anonymous has to do with blacks and hispanics. That's like perpetuating a stereotype. I think this program benefits people of all races. My grandmothers second cousin was an alcoholic and would go through roughly 12 beers a day until he was sent to alcoholics anonymous. It was the best decision he ever made. So, I think everyone, blacks, whites, hispanics, puerto-ricans, asians, iranians and others should be able to benefit from AA.
VicTusDeuS
New member
joack said:
Somebody mentioned this on the other thread...corporations should hire the best person qualified for the job which would increase profits. This actually would make more sense on the upper level closer to the B of D being that their jobs rely mainly on a stocks performance and the end results that shareholders see....on the lower end you really cannot control it.
What I suggest for the lower level in companies and think will work is make every job application color blind. Do not even ask anything that would give away a persons race. Hire the best qualified within the job parameters. At the same time the HR person doing the interviews should keep a detailed record of information about that interview and keep those records on hand for 3 years. An independent source should come in and pretty much audit their records to make sure that a more qualified person wasn't turned down and if they were, why? It should be a through and multi step process including more than just knowledge/experiance but maybe even include a personality survey. All the gathered information should be taken into account when hiring. All these records should be maintained and if they company was to be in an audit, they pretty much covered their ass. That way it is not based on race but based on what would be in the best interest of the company.
Now to get everyone up to par, primary education should be looked at with a fine tooth comb...Every school system in the country should be held to the same standards with a small percentage variance. Obviously some schools will always be better than others, but the amount that they are better by doesn't have to be so steep. I hear on the radio that recent grads who majored in education here in NJ cannot find any teaching jobs. Send them to the inner cities. Double the amount of teachers in each school. Sounds expensive but with a fed govt that has the ability to put itself in large amounts of debt it is still a good investment. The children will benefit, the teachers will have money (and be taxed) and it should have the same effect on the economy as the work projects during the depression.
There is no reason why a public education should be different in one area compared to another. With government subsidies they should all have an equal amount of funds available. Overhaul the entire education system and then base everything on merit. Im with Joack on leveling the playing field...but dont just do it for blacks, do it for all. Every poor area should be flagged and set to be helped. I also think the powers of the teachers unions should be limited- alot of poor teaching has to do with the fact that once a teacher is tenured they become piles of shit.
atlantabiolab
New member
joack said:
This has been the argument for AA for years. We have had AA for decades now and the special interest groups utilize spurious correlations, such as prison demographics, drug and alcohol use, unemployment levels, college demographics, etc. to howl for more special treatment, not real solutions. Because "x" % of black males never attend college is not evidence of discrimination, it is simply a fact. The real world reasons are overlooked to search for the nebulous tenticles of racism in every statistic.
Those are good starts, now pay for them. You and only you are responsible for your outcome, not all of society. When groups quit crying for special treatments and start working for solutions, such as ideological change, which is the first step, for you cannot succeed if you believe that your outcome is based on the actions of other groups, then your situation will change. Until then, crying for help and playing victim will keep you feeding from the trough of dependency. With the unity that minority groups have, as compared to white America, there should be nothing to stop you, save yourselves.
Start businesses, hire fellow minorities, promote capitalism and individualism, stand fast on morality, etc.
If you expect the world to grant you equality, outside of the law, simply because you exist, then you will die pissed off. You need to earn respect. Many people will generalize your abilities based on the accomplishments and actions of your group and there is nothing you can do about it save work hard to show people that you are an individual who is better than the rest. A large part of what holds down minorities is the group image, which is real, it is a part of life and all the demands will not make the world change. Until the group decides to solve it's problems, then that stigma will remain with you and the burden lays on your group not the rest of the world.
That may be true, but until you prove it to others, then you are simply talking. Until you show others that you are better, then you will be stereotyped on many levels. The average person is not a great thinker, so to them you are simply a stereotype.
What exactly do we have to prove. I'm very educated, but sterotyped often until I open my mouth & speak with some sense or when people actually see what I'm capable of in the workplace.atlantabiolab said:
Overall I see your point and we should be accountable for our own actions as a people. The same goes for whites, whites espeically need to check other whites about discriminating in various facets of life where they are the decision makers, managers, owners, CEOs, execs etc. This would prevent the cycle from repeating itself.
I think AA should be extended to everyone on a economic & social basis.
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