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Supplements For Steroid Users

Nelson Montana

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This was something I was going to include as a "bonus report" when purchasing my book "BOTTOM LINE BODYBUILDING -- The Cold Hard Facts About Training - Nutrition - Supplements and Drugs"

But...

I'm too busy and too lazy to lay everything out in a legit manner, not to mention, there are constant updates with new supplements all the time.

Sooo...

I figured I'd just post some stuff here as it comes along. Here's a round up of some things that are going on:

I've already mentioned that Thermorexin got the thumbs up as far as the new ephedra free thermogenics go. What I like about this is how "complete" it is. (I would have left out the Green tea, but that's splitting hairs). It still doesn't have quite the kick of the old Ripped Fuel Extreme, but I don't see anything else as good right now.

I wrote a post a couple of weeks back about how I'm testing certain products via my monthly blood test. This is an invaluable source of information that most people just don't have. My last test was using chrysin, piperine and calcium D glucerate versus using no anti e's and my estrodiol came back 10 points lower, which isn't bad at all. Does this suggest it's enough to protect against mega doses of test? Probably not. But for mild cycles, or for daily estro management, it looks pretty good. I think it'll also work well in combination with proviron. (You'd probably only need 25 mgs of proviron tops) Anyone willing to give it shot?

This month I'm trying 6OXO to see how it compares. I'll let you know in a few weeks.

I also mentioned a while back that I've been on the advisory board for Protein Factory on a line of products and I got the prototypes. I must add that I recieve no compensation for this whatsoever. Actually, that's not true. They sent me a free package of the protein blend I usually buy. (I work cheap) Anyway, after I finish the 6OXO experiement I'm going to give them a try. This is what I can tell you so far:

Originally they were going for a post cycle formula (appropriatly titled "Post-Cycle") but they broke it up into two formulas. One is an avena/xanthoparmilia/muara puama/ nettles combo designed to release free T. The other is a combo of Maca, milk thistle, r-ala desiged to retore libido and clean the liver. The ingredients and dosages look excellent but again, I want to both "feel" the results and do the blood test before giving an endorsement. If nothing else, it'll be pleasure not to cap avena sativa from BAC every few days.

People have been asking about Nitric Oxide supps and to tell the truth, I can't see spending money on these things. Arginine realeases NO and is dirt cheap. By the way, take 2 grams of Arginine along with Viagra. Very impressive!

Ever hear of Tongkat Ali? This was supposed to be the next big thing in big things. (Erectile function that is.) From my personal experience, it did nothing.

As much as dislike Biotest, I have to admit, the lemon GROW bars were good -- until -- the last few batches I tried which tasted like stale floor tiles. Anyone else notice this? The same thing happened with laBrada chocolate coconut bars. They used to taste like "Mounds" bars now they taste like waxy maggot feces on a stick. Is this the old bait and switch? Start out with one product (laded with sugar) and then put out another to meet label claims? (ala' Detour) I know two stores in Manhattan that no longer carry Biotest -- for what it's worth.

I've also been asked for some suggestons on a fat burner, but anyone familiar with my work knows I'm not big on thermogenics. I feel the key to fat loss is with stimulating the thyroid -- safely. If I had to put out the ideal supp for optimum thyroid function it would contain all the nutrients that do so. The problem is, there won't be much of a "kick" and that's what people want from a fat loss product. Maybe a combination of thyroid nutrients and Thermorexin would really kick things into gear. To their credit, Thermo does contain some kelp to pump up thyroid output.

Other than that, basic nutrients for health, and lots and lots of protein (Not just whey, but whey, egg, and milk) that's about it for supps for now. I'm always on the look out for new stuff so if you hear about anything, let me know. Oh, and by the way -- I'm still not sure about Careo. That's a tough one to prove since it deals with RBC. If your RBC is fine, what does it do? I'm not sure, but I'm not discouting it yet.








And yes...prohormones still suck.
 
Hey Nelson, nice views and good idea posting them for a collection like this.

How come you never include tribulus or Epimedium Sagittatum into your natural postcycle therapy formula. I know that it is unknown how epimedium works at the moment, but it may be able to restore levels of testosterone and thyroid hormones. It has also been traditionally used for liver and kidney tonification as well as sexual dysfunction. And tribulus working on the ol luteinizing hormone (LH) levels. When LH levels are increased, the natural production of testosterone also increases. I know that there is not a lot of studies to prove these, but why not hit every angle.

For my next postcycle regimen I am going to throw everything into the mix. It will be a lot of supps but you can buy some that include many in one cap. I am going to try to throw all of this into one mix ...

Tribulus
Maca
Avena Sativa
Zinc
Epimedium Sagittatum
l-arginine
Yohimbe Bark Extract
ginseng
Ashwagandha root extract
Stinging nettle root extract
Marapuama stem extract

Combine these together into 1 product and you should feel results.

Mavy
 
Add some ...

Damiana Leaf and stem
Saw Palmetto berry
Sarsaparilla root
Ginger root

into the mix as well.
 
Mavy said:
Hey Nelson, nice views and good idea posting them for a collection like this.

How come you never include tribulus or Epimedium Sagittatum into your natural postcycle therapy formula. I know that it is unknown how epimedium works at the moment, but it may be able to restore levels of testosterone and thyroid hormones. It has also been traditionally used for liver and kidney tonification as well as sexual dysfunction. And tribulus working on the ol luteinizing hormone (LH) levels. When LH levels are increased, the natural production of testosterone also increases. I know that there is not a lot of studies to prove these, but why not hit every angle.

For my next postcycle regimen I am going to throw everything into the mix. It will be a lot of supps but you can buy some that include many in one cap. I am going to try to throw all of this into one mix ...

Tribulus
Maca
Avena Sativa
Zinc
Epimedium Sagittatum
l-arginine
Yohimbe Bark Extract
ginseng
Ashwagandha root extract
Stinging nettle root extract
Marapuama stem extract

Combine these together into 1 product and you should feel results.

Mavy


Your list is almost exactly what the product called "Unleashed" contains, (good name) except no yohimbe and no tribulus, which makes sense. I didn't realize the "Post-Cycle" does have epimedium also. You can get trib anywhere cheap and adding it to the formula would take up space but it could't hurt. Personally, I feel whatever trib does,avena does better.

Some people can't tolerate yohimbine. And what yohimbine does in regard to Erectile function, xanthoarmilia does better.

Saw Palmetto lowers DHT which would not make it a good libido enhancing ingredient. Sasparilla hasn't panned out and Damiana may increase estro. Ginger is great, but for a post cycle product?

I also still think it would be great to see a "No Yohimbe" Thermorexin. Anyone else have problems with Yohimbe?
 
Nelson, I believe that Tribulus and Avena go about raising test through different routes. I didnt think that Avena riased LH levels. I know what you mean though how trib can be taken seperatly, instead of taking up room in a supp, especially when a lot of trib is usually needed.

I have heard about people having problems with yohimbe, but I dont know what these problems are? Is it water? Can you elaborate on this a little more. I personally have had no problems with it.

Mavy
 
Mavy said:
Nelson, I believe that Tribulus and Avena go about raising test through different routes. I didnt think that Avena riased LH levels. I know what you mean though how trib can be taken seperatly, instead of taking up room in a supp, especially when a lot of trib is usually needed.

I have heard about people having problems with yohimbe, but I dont know what these problems are? Is it water? Can you elaborate on this a little more. I personally have had no problems with it.

Mavy

Yes, trib raises LH and avena lowers SHBG. The problem with trib is the amount of LH raised isn't that high in suppressed individuals and is almost zilch in men over 40 -- the ones who need it most! Again, it can't hurt. I'd recommend getting it from wwwvitaminshoppe.com Dirt cheap.

Yes, yohimbe causes a little water retention but that isn't the big problem. It is a stimulent (regarded as 'toxic" in many heral journals) and it raises BP. It causes wicked anxiety in some people as JJ's experience concurs.
 
damn so maybe that day i almost passed out was due to hcl yohim? but i never felt it before i have to try it againt o see if it does effect me
 
Great thread Nelson, thanks!

Since Tribulus came up, maybe you can clear up a little discrepancy I have with Biotest. Back in '99, Dr Jose Antonio did an informal study on Tribex and conceded it DID work as advertised. Four of six football players/BODYBUILDERS showed SIGNIFICANT improvement.

Three years later, Antonio's book comes out that says Tribulus is useless, and doesn't mention his Biotest study. Can you clear this one up?

Thanks
 
Shark01 said:
Great thread Nelson, thanks!

Since Tribulus came up, maybe you can clear up a little discrepancy I have with Biotest. Back in '99, Dr Jose Antonio did an informal study on Tribex and conceded it DID work as advertised. Four of six football players/BODYBUILDERS showed SIGNIFICANT improvement.

Three years later, Antonio's book comes out that says Tribulus is useless, and doesn't mention his Biotest study. Can you clear this one up?

Thanks


Good memory! Yeah, I thought that was strange too. I know Jose and he's a good guy. Very smart. I'm not sure of the politics involved so I'm not going to speak for him. But sometimes studies suggest one thing and further studies suggest another. And even among professionals, sometimes when you're friends with someone you tend to give them the benifit of the doubt but then when they double-cross you, you tend to over criticize them, you know? Who knows what went down here?

I too recommended trib, and still do, but better stuff has come down the pike. It certainly isn't valueless (unless it;s really crappytrib, which is half the stuff out there). But it isn't the miricle that Biotest makes it out to be. Not for sixty bucks a bottle, that's for sure!!!

Here's one you probably don't remember. Back in the Muscle Media 2000 days, TC said he thought Trib was useless.
 
geee..that's a lot of suppliements. I do it simple, and I know it works and it's inexpensive. POstcycle regime for me = 10mg dbol ED in the morning for 3 weeks post last injection, HCG 15days 500iu ED from 1 week post cycle(slow esters). Nolvadex 20mg ED for 2 weeks then 10mg for 2 weeks. That worked for me better than I imagined it to do. Went from 162 to 198 and stepped off cycle in march. Did the post cycle recovery plan, went down to 190. Then started a light cutting and went down to 185 pretty hard, now I'm back up at 198 and gaining, still 6pack and low fat shooting for 210-215. But maybe that's just me. I like to do it simple and inexpensive and as I know HCG works, same with nolva and zink I stick with it and wouldn't even dare to try a suppliement only for post cycle regime.
 
Good post Nelson. I like the information that you provide. I read the E-book "the Bodybuilding Truth". I don't disagree with anything because I have yet to apply anything that you mentioned. I especially like the target mucle workouts that you suggested and I have revamped my routines to include most all of them. But I just can't squat anymore since I broke my right ankle had it fused, so I have to replace them with leg presses. If I squat, my left leg takes the brunt and grows a lot more than my right.
 
.: Nelson :. If you had to pick the 3 most effective otc supplemenst for increasing nat. Test or to help you get cranking for post cycel recovery what would they be? Or is there a good unified product(s) that is the best ?

There are so many - it would cost a lot to buy all of the mentioned supps individually.
 
yeah im pretty interested in different post cycle "supplements". im thinking of only using lots of nolva and any valuable store bought products this time off.

also what would you consider a good dose of zinc to use. (now that stuff is cheap). i was taking 100mg +multi-vit before bed.
 
Lift Chief said:
This is probably the most civil i've ever seen one of Nelson's threads... kudos to all...

HAHA, very true! :p

Nelson, good post and looking forward to the results
 
As far as increasing test, I think I'd have to say that only avena sativa an muara puama have been shown to do so. (MAYBE, trib will, indirectly) Well, and prohomones yeah, but the side effects outweigh the benifits so they're a non issue IMO.

The problem is, there haven't been many in-depth studies on this, but the ones I've seen seem to be objective -- as opposed to the bullshit studies that some supplement companies conduct. The imperical evidence is also very strong, which in many ways is the best evidence of all. But as I said, I want to do some blood tests. I forgot who is was, but someone on this board did a blood test check and it did indeed show a higher free T count from the use of avena.

Post cycle therapy is a three pronged procedre IMO. You need to block e, (but not too much) detoxify the liver, and get Mr. Johnson back in action as soon as possible. So milk thistle, r-ala, chrysin and MACA would head the list with some xanthoparmilia added to fortify the "bonerfication" factor.

Again, no natural substance is going to work like a drug but even if you decide to use HCG,or clomid or whatever, I think it's best to add some nutritional support so maybe you won't need quite as high a dosage of the drugs. The more "naturally" you can recoup and stabilize, the better off you'll be. And the sooner you'll be ready for your next cycle. :)
 
SofaGeorge said:
So you're saying cardio will help me burn off a pound of bodyfat a day?


ROFL!
 
Here is my post cycle program.

Nelson do you have any input on my dosages?

Avena Sativa 2000mg- 1000mg taken 2 times/day

Tribulus- 1000mg/day – 500mg Taken 2 times/day

Xanthoparmilia- 100mg/ day- once a day at night

Cnidium – 100mg/day –once a day at night

Maca 3000mg/day – 1500mg taken twice/day

ALA 1200 mg/day – 400mg taken 3 times/day

Milk Thistle 12600mg- 4200mg taken 3 times/day

Zinc- 50mg/day before bed

Nolva 20mg/day

Creatine 15g/day- 5g taken 3 time/day
 
niec shit big dawg where do you get all those supps...

im mainly looking for a place online to get
avena, maca, Xanthoparmilia, and some trib..

thanks if u or ne one can hlp...

dubz.1.
 
doubles1 said:
niec shit big dawg where do you get all those supps...

im mainly looking for a place online to get
avena, maca, Xanthoparmilia, and some trib..

thanks if u or ne one can hlp...

dubz.1.

Beyond-a-centry bro...
 
Bigdawg: With that stack, do you ever NOT have an erection?!?!

Replace the nolva with Proviron and Chrysin it'll be perfect.
 
Nelson Montana said:
Bigdawg: With that stack, do you ever NOT have an erection?!?!

Replace the nolva with Proviron and Chrysin it'll be perfect.

Well lets just say that I spend a lot of time answering questions at work while always seated LOL. Not sure what the hell I will do at the beach this weekend, might have to tape it down!!!

Christ what a bad time to, just broke up with my girlfriend a few weeks back. Damn I feel sorry for the first woman I get next!!!!!

Don't have access to Proviron, will look into getting the Chrysin if I can get it in time.

thanks for your input.
 
Nelson Montana said:
Bigdawg: With that stack, do you ever NOT have an erection?!?!

Replace the nolva with Proviron and Chrysin it'll be perfect.


Should I add the liquidex I have to stop E instead since I have no Chrysin or is the Nolva good enough.
 
OKIE said:
Is "Unleashed" something that the Protein Factory is coming out with?

Never mind...I found it at PF's website. Looks promising. What about the thermogenic called "Zip"?
 
Nelson Montana said:



Your list is almost exactly what the product called "Unleashed" contains, (good name) except no yohimbe and no tribulus, which makes sense.

Who makes 'unleashed'?
 
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