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Supplement Ban?

what exactly are we talking about when we talk about an up and coming supplement ban?

I have come accross

1.DSHEA Full Implementation and Enforcement Act of 2003 Bill # S.1538

2.Dietary Supplement Safety Act of 2003 Bill # S.722

3.Dietary Supplement Access and Awareness Act Bill # H.R.3377


I am foggy on the first and 3rd, while the second to my knowledge really only seems to pertain to stimulants (and maybe hormonal products?).

While none of these seem particularly desireable to me, none of them seem like the doomsday end of the supplement industry bills that I've heard about.

Can someone shed some light on these bills and congressional proceedings?
 
There are no bills pending today that would ban all supplements. Does that mean there's nothing to worry about? Well, there may be very good reason to worry if you care about supplements. Let's talk about why.

The dietary supplement industry is nearly a $19 billion business annually, and it's growing. If Big Pharmacy could get control of it, the supplement business could generate revenues much, much higher than that. Think of the prices we pay for prescription drugs. Think of all the bling-bling.

And Big Pharmacy may likely get its way, eventually. Believe it or not, the U.S. laws are out of step with many other nation's vitamin laws. Globally, supplements are generally much more restricted than here in America (in some places tablets are limited in potency to only the RDA). There is a strong movement (called the "Codex Alimentarius", and supported by the FDA) to "harmonize" all supplement laws around the world. Needless to say, it won't be to loosen up the laws abroad, but to crack down on U.S. supplement freedoms. That's the Big Picture, and some of the pending bills are just small steps in that direction.

Look, the pharmaceutical industry has legions of well-paid lobbyists working Capitol Hill to accomplish the goal. Of course, they're not so foolish as to propose an outright ban on supplements. The public wouldn't stand for it, as evidenced by the tremendous popular support for the 1994 law (DSHEA) that protected supplements from FDA overreaching. No, the attack on supplements must be gradual. The wall of protections must be dismantled one brick at a time.

So you have, for example, something like the bill (S. 722) proposed by Dick Durbin -- a long-time opponent of dietary supplements. It would require reporting of adverse reactions and safety complaints (a reasonable proposal to protect the public). But it would also give the FDA the authority to remove an entire class of supplements from the market if there's even a single serious adverse reaction complaint filed -- even if the complaint is filed by a consumer who has used the product against the instructions of the manufacturer. Then the manufacturer will have to prove the safety of the supplement -- a costly process that would break some companies. Look at the costs associated with proving safety of a drug before it comes to market. That's why we pay the prices we do for Rx drugs. American consumers generally don't want to pay those kinds of prices for vitamins. And I don't blame them.

Anyway, who's kidding whom on the vitamin safety issue? If that's the problem, let's get over-the-counter non-steroidal anti-inflammatants (NSAID's) off the market immediately! Ibuprofin, acetaminophen and the like cause thousands of deaths annually. Arguably, that's a real public health crisis, don't ya think? (Hey, if saving lives were the true priority, wouldn't we have banned tobacco decades ago?)

Durbin's bill would also newly define “anabolic steroid” to make certain products fit the definition based on advertising claims alone, regardless of whether they actually build muscle. This would end the prohormone market as we know it. Two other bills, H.R. 207 and S. 1780, really go after prohormones as well. The attack on prohormones is largely spearheaded by the sports anti-doping lobby, and is less related to safety than to the potential advantage that using them might provide to athletes. After all, the number of deaths attributed to prohormones is ... zero. A bit off from the number attributed to NSAID's, huh?

Anyway, if you want to read the various bills themselves as well as more commentary on the issues, check out the News Forum at www.usfa.biz.
 
Thanks for the reply Rick. I think you have good insight on a lot of these things though you probably are a bit off on the ultimate end of the regulation (for instance i think its more probable that protein, efa's and vitamins end up in a state similar to tylenol/ acetometaphin, maalox, beano, etc.-- over the counter), though i certainly can't rule out some bizare future world where you need an Rx for protein powder.
 
Nobody knows what the ultimate end of the regulatory efforts will be. With the over-reaching FDA and greedy Big Pharma, who can say?

If you believe that freedom is what this country was meant most to be about, and that freedom means making your OWN health supplement choices, even if they're not necessarily the "best" choices in the "learned" opinion of the government, then you should express those views loud and clear as the process plays out....
 
Hey Rick...should we tell them about CODEX???

My friends, that will either scare the pants off of you or really piss you off! Trust me, Rick's insight into the future of supplement freedom is not unfounded......................unfortunately.

Support the U.S.F.A. brothers or our freedom to use supplements will soon be wiped out!:bigbuck:
 
If you all want this nonsense to stop, kill the enemy. The same enemy who enforces (if not created) the Patriot Act, and enforces the most insane laws in the US---AG John Ascroft.

Just put a bullet in his head, end of story.
 
PrincePRIMO1 said:
If you all want this nonsense to stop, kill the enemy. The same enemy who enforces (if not created) the Patriot Act, and enforces the most insane laws in the US---AG John Ascroft.

Just put a bullet in his head, end of story.


Or, there's always the (less likely to get you sentenced to life in prison) alternative of voting Democratic and writing a letter to your Congressman.

...and I'm sure PrincePRIMO1 was joking.....right!!! :mad:
 
Hehe!

Could that be considered a death threat?

Brings back fond memories of my close personal friend Johnny Asscroft and his minions of federal prosecutors.

Anyhow, I think people can look forward to having no supplements at all OTC just like is now the case in Europe. Most people don't know about that and it's very obvious that the FDA and other fedthugs absolutely had the supplement act as it's been implemented.

Kiss 'em goodbye. PH are on the radar and now that ephedra is gone they are now starting the media blast on the next evil chem:


Nonprescription Dextromethorphan -- 'DXM' -- Widely Available

By Daniel DeNoon
Reviewed By Brunilda Nazario, MD
on Monday, January 05, 2004
WebMD Medical News

Printer-friendly version


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Jan. 5, 2004 -- It's not new. It's not illegal. And when abused as a recreational drug, it's not safe.

Generations of teens have used the cough suppressant dextromethorphan to get high. And every year, according to the U.S. government statistics, thousands of users end up in emergency rooms.

Users call it DXM or dex. It's an ingredient in more than 125 over-the-counter cough and cold remedies. Some of the more popular ones have their own drug-culture nicknames: "C-C-C" (Coricidin HBP Cough & Cold tablets), for example, or "robo" (Robitussin). Other nicknames include "candy," "skittles," and "red devils."

What does it do? The intoxicating effect is similar, but much less intense, to the effects of PCP and LSD, says Ronald Strong, supervisor of the national drug threat assessment unit at the U.S. National Drug Intelligence Center (NDIC).

"PCP and LSD as hallucinogens are far more potent than DXM," Strong tells WebMD. "But the effects you would get from what these kids are taking is similar."

The side effects are much less fun, notes Ilene B. Anderson, PharmD, associate clinical professor at the University of California, San Francisco, School of Pharmacy and senior toxicology management specialist for California's poison control system.

"The primary effects are nausea, vomiting, feeling dizzy and lightheaded -- kids taking DXM can become drowsy and can look like they are drunk," Anderson tells WebMD. "They have dilated pupils, increased heart rate and blood pressure, and they can have hallucinations. Many patients also are agitated. And the potential is there for seizures, although these are uncommon."

Here, There, and Everywhere

When used as directed, DXM is good medicine, says Deborah Mitchell, an intelligence analyst at the NDIC. It acts on the brain's cough center to relieve the misery of nagging, unproductive coughing. That's why it's included in so many cough and cold products.

And those products are everywhere. You can buy them at your local drug store. You can get them over the Internet. Many pharmacies make no effort to keep children from buying these products.

Normal doses of the drug range up to 30 mg, which is the highest potency available on the market. That's the amount in Coricidin HBP Cough & Cold tablets, and also the dose in DexAlone Maximum Strength Cough Suppressant liquid gelcaps.

Anderson notes that the dose needed for a hallucinatory effect is about 400 to 500 mg. That's about 15 doses of the high-strength DXM products. These huge doses of DXM are bad enough. But as most DXM products contain other medicines, abusers risk overdoses of other serious medicines. These include the antihistamine chlorpheniramine and/or pain reliever acetaminophen. Overdoses of these drugs can be extremely dangerous and cause lasting damage.

That being said, I think it needs to be discussed as to HOW the ephedra is banned for as I and others read it ephedra is banned from DIET supplements and NOT from any OTC sales for use like when for staying awake or when mixed with guaf for colds. I also didn't see ma huang banned or ephedrine in combo in other herbs so again we have LEGAL problems, though it doesn't appear the penalties will be anything substantial.

There is also a great little article from a Chinese doctor who plainly points out that ephedra has been used SAFELY for 5000 years or more, but the Talimericans fuck it up and ban it in less than 25.

I can't wait for Cuba to open up and maybe China ain't so bad, either!
 
The best part is that there will no be another black market and I'll be able to teach people how to extract ephedrine and then turn it into HCl just like they do with meth.
 
Talking about Cuba, even if it's a communist country, I remember years ago the doc in Varadero gave my mom Dilaudid, yes DILAUDID for a headache....
 
Animal is right about the possible future. There is a strong push to "harmonize" supplement laws globally. The primary vehicle is the international Codex Alimentarius, which the FDA is supporting. Harmonization will mean bringing U.S. laws in line with the more restrictive laws already in place in Europe. Beware.
 
Rick Collins said:
Animal is right about the possible future. There is a strong push to "harmonize" supplement laws globally. The primary vehicle is the international Codex Alimentarius, which the FDA is supporting. Harmonization will mean bringing U.S. laws in line with the more restrictive laws already in place in Europe. Beware.

ishhh next on the list then creatine for sure.....
 
Funny you should say that, Manny. Today’s popular prohormone products are in grave jeopardy. And those who are committed to eradicating sports nutrition supplements may not stop there. They’re already planting seeds on Capitol Hill. In recent meetings with industry representatives, Congressional staffers expressed concern for still other products associated with building muscle. One staffer asked if creatine monohydrate was a steroid, and if not, then on what alternative basis it too could be banned. Thankfully, she hadn’t heard about glutamine or whey protein. Clearly, the negative perception of these products seems to have much less to do with any possible adverse health risks than with the apparently terrible possibility that they might help build muscle. As one Congressional aide pointedly put it, “If they work, we’ll ban them.” With a bizarrely skewed system of values like this, effective sports supplements could soon become extinct. The only ones left on the market would be the ones that do nothing at all.
 
I wouldn't doubt that for a minute.

Creatine is already banned by high schools, so it is entirely conceivable that they will get it banned as a 'steroid' with the current anti-PH act in order to save the children.

Clen is considered a steroid for all practicle purposes, so doing it to creatine is in the cards.
 
I wouldn't doubt that for a minute.

Creatine is already banned by high schools, so it is entirely conceivable that they will get it banned as a 'steroid' with the current anti-PH act in order to save the children.

Clen is considered a steroid for all practicle purposes, so doing it to creatine is in the cards.
 
This was told to me by a GNC employee, and after further research I have found that only GNC is taking them off their shelves and heard a variety of reasons why.
 
Re: California, the current "situation" with prohormones is a different issue from the federal bills. There was state legislation and also a proclamation by a Cali Deputy AG on the diols. I wrote a column on the latter topic in last month's Muscular Development magazine.

Re: GNC, a lot of factors go into a corporate decision to voluntarily discontinue a product line.
 
Rick, is there a way of setting up a televised debate between you and some notible scientists and physicians vs. these policy-happy govt officials??? This might help in changing perception of supplements and AAS with the general public. And also expose that these govt meatheads really have no hard evidence against banning these supplements, and it's really their own twisted agenda. If anyone would be able to stick it to them it would be you!
 
Thank god for amsterdam if we could only get them to go their way for other drugs, too.

This week they decided that they wouldn't arrest anybody coming into the country on an airline for coke possession as long as it was less than 3 kilos!

HAHA!
 
Creatine is already banned in France where it's seen as an anabolic product. Where's the logic ? I have no idea...
 
THEEGAME2544 said:
Rick, is there a way of setting up a televised debate between you and some notible scientists and physicians vs. these policy-happy govt officials??? This might help in changing perception of supplements and AAS with the general public. And also expose that these govt meatheads really have no hard evidence against banning these supplements, and it's really their own twisted agenda. If anyone would be able to stick it to them it would be you!

Unfortunately, legislation is voted on and passed behind closed doors. Our Congressman are supposed to represent "we the people," so seeing a televised debate of sorts would place them under the scrutiny of the American public. As "fun" as that sounds, it would never happen.

However...Rick has organized an effort to "debate" the Congressman that have proposed this litigation. But to play the game on Capital Hill, you have to hire a lobbyist group who will debate for you. The USFA has done that, and Rick has even accompanied some top industry specialists and chemists to hearings where they made a presentation and answered questions. It seems quite evident that they are far less concerned with the science and safety and far more influenced by the politics of such a bill.
 
I hate to say it, but it's a pipe dream to try and save it.

The FDA and the feds don't give a fuck about stealing prescriptions coming across from canada for really sick people and the elderly who have the grandiose AARP lobby behind them, so what makes anybody here think for a second that what you say or do is anything more than a drop of piss in the ocean.

You are deluding yourself.
 
Animal said:
I hate to say it, but it's a pipe dream to try and save it.

The FDA and the feds don't give a fuck about stealing prescriptions coming across from canada for really sick people and the elderly who have the grandiose AARP lobby behind them, so what makes anybody here think for a second that what you say or do is anything more than a drop of piss in the ocean.

You are deluding yourself.

Well the alternative is to sit back and let them do what they please. :evilking:
Come on Animal, it's not like you to lay down and not even put up a fight. They'll just continue to ban supplements until there's nothing left. It started with AAS and where will it end, Vitamin C?

Rick has one quite a few battles against what many would consider to be insurmountable odds. If anyone can do it.........
 
Yes, you posed the question as succinctly as it can get. "When will it stop, Vitamin C?


I don't know, ask the europeans?

List one success so far where the gov don't do what it want? I don't lie down as I work within the law to do what the law says I can do. When it's taken to mean something else or they change the law, then I move on to something else.

GHB is gone after numerous letters and lobbying from those in life extension and other groups.

Yea, I wish I knew where it would end and it looks like it won't end to ANY degree until they get the 1994 supplements law changed. You know it and I know it.

Well, I do know and it will stop when the big vitamin and pharm companies behind them decide there is no more liability in a product the FDA is trying to ban and they would lose significant money in having the products banned.

Again, I'd like to know one case one so far. They wanted steroids, they got 'em. They wanted GHB, they got it. They wanted 1,4, they got it. They wanted rohypnol, they got it and got it more is less banned in mexico. Oxycontin they couldn't get, but they then put pressure on mex and it's dried up at least in TJ. Soma's are now some amazing date rape drug which they will seize as you come across. (happened to me and I know what to say and do)

If there are any successes or positive events, I'd like to see them.
 
And another good example is the anti-freedom act (patriot act). We all know that was a bad idea, but it had to be done for the congress to show their patriotism.

We GOTTA do something!

Many didn't like it and they had so much power that we now have a second anti-freedom act!
 
Animal said:
Case in point can be seen here

http://www.prohormonelitigation.com/

They are being sued and it's easier to bail than to fight.

If they aren't even going to defend their market share do you think they will spend to keep them legal?

Strangely, the companies mentioned in the suit weren't all that concerned, however many of them have ponied up some serious dough for the USFA to battle Congress.
 
Animal said:
And another good example is the anti-freedom act (patriot act). We all know that was a bad idea, but it had to be done for the congress to show their patriotism.

We GOTTA do something!

Many didn't like it and they had so much power that we now have a second anti-freedom act!

You know the only thing we can do about that, don't you...............................Vote Democratic!
 
Twinlab is now filing bankruptcy because they were getting sued too much.

They don't wanna help pay to fight these people and then they get dusted.
 
Animal said:

Anyhow, I think people can look forward to having no supplements at all OTC just like is now the case in Europe.

Can you or anyone else expand upon this? I am strongly considering studying abroad in Germany in the future and it would be rediculous if i couldnt even buy protein, mutli's and fish oil while I am there.
 
All vitamins, herbs, etc are now script items.

No creatine, no nothin!
 
collegiateLifter said:


Can you or anyone else expand upon this? I am strongly considering studying abroad in Germany in the future and it would be rediculous if i couldnt even buy protein, mutli's and fish oil while I am there.

Depens on which country. France has banned creatine years ago. Same for many herbal extracts. But it's the european mentality.

"Govt. knows what's good and bad for you". They do the same with handguns, SUV....
 
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