'Suitcase' Deadlifts? (and others)

[Jim Ouini]

So I'm going to start a couple-3 weeks of some core/stabilization work before diving back into some strength stuff, and trying to decide on some exercises to do.

Basically I'd like to do all the compound moves for chest, back and legs but with more emphasis on stabilization performed at lower intensity for higher reps.

I hate to have to give up a deadlift variant, and I ran across something from Pavel called 'Suitcase Deadlifts' - it's like a conventional dead but you stand with the barbell to your side, bend your knees and pick it up with one hand like a suitcase while keeping your body upright (it's not a side bend). I'm thinking this would be a good challenge for my stabilizers.

Has anyone tried these? or do they just sound too silly?

The other exercises I'm considering:

Legs - front or overhead squat
Chest - db press on a swiss ball
Back - db rows on a ball
Shoulders - seated db press on a ball

I'd probably run this as a circuit. Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

[Guinness5.0]

I like most of it, except for seated db press on a ball and db rows on a ball. IMHO standing will be MORE than adequate to stim. the core as it relates to shoulder pressing, and bb rows close to parallel will be great for the lower erectors. Then again, if you do overhead squats you'll probably get all the benefits of SOHP in terms of core development. Hmmm... yeah on second thought I DO like the ball presses for a few weeks.

Safe to say you feel your core is a weakness at this point? Or do you just want a bit of a rest from the big heavy stuff?

 

[Jim Ouini]

Safe to say you feel your core is a weakness at this point? Or do you just want a bit of a rest from the big heavy stuff?

Exactly. I think most agree that heavy squats and deads work the core but I want to improve strength endurance also. I'm going to start with some bridges and planks before each workout too (which I should probably be doing anyway)

And yeah I'm a *little* beat up from running two 5 x 5's back to back (even though today is my last workout of this run and this weekend I'm sure I'll have an itch to start another one right away ).

I have some pec/shoulder pain when I bench and some lingering pain in my left knee so I want to go light for awhile.

My goal in this cycle is to heal up a bit and prepare my stabilizers for my next cycle - either Korte 3 x 3 or DFHT, haven't decided which yet.

I'm also going to do some *gulp* cardio and reduce my calories a bit to get rid of some of the chub MC2 put on me

Note: I tried an ATG OH squat with no weight and about fell on my ass. I hope a barbell overhead will help lol

 

[bignate73]

you want to blast your core, skip the rows on the ball and just do a one arm bent over row with a dbell. keep your torso tight, row strict and you'll be worked! if thats too "core'ish" then do some Penlay Rows where you row a BB from the floor and set the bar back down again between reps.

 

[Madcow2]

Keep in mind you don't totally need to avoid regular lifting - just maintenance phase it (good time to work on weak links) while you push hard on the other stuff.

Might be a good time to do goodmornings which shouldn't aggrivate any issues. Don't overlook traditional hypers and situps. Powershrugs, power cleans. Essentially anything you wanted to do but have been holding off on for a bit. Take a critical look at your lifts, Tate Presses are great at addressing tricept strength. Maybe a good time to hit your arms up.

Anyway, just throwing out some ideas of things that can be very beneficial to include but don't necessarily need to be arranged to be ultra taxing.

 

[Jim Ouini]

you want to blast your core, skip the rows on the ball and just do a one arm bent over row with a dbell. keep your torso tight, row strict and you'll be worked! if thats too "core'ish" then do some Penlay Rows where you row a BB from the floor and set the bar back down again between reps.

Thanks for the suggestion. I did those Pendlay rows my first run through of the 5 x 5 and loved them. I can't remember working my stabilizers much, I'm sure they were but I wasn't really focusing on it.

Maybe I'll try them along with the one armed db rows and see how they feel.

Keep in mind you don't totally need to avoid regular lifting - just maintenance phase it (good time to work on weak links) while you push hard on the other stuff.

Actually I was wondering just that. Wasn't sure if what I wanted to do for my core - which I think is a weak link (along with hamstrings) - was at the exclusion of everything else i.e can I mix high rep/low intensity (maybe 60% 1RM) to build some stabilization endurance with moderate rep/moderate intensity (80% of 1RM?) for maintenance of my main lifts until I get back into 5 x 5 or 3 x 3.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Well OK. I just ran a full body core circuit today:

bridges 2 x 10 4s hold
planks 2 x 10 4s hold

db chest press on swiss ball 60 x 12
cable row standing on one leg 60 x 12
seated db press on swiss ball 25 x 12
bicep curl standing on one leg 15 x 12
seated tricep extension on swiss ball 25 x 12
front squat 75 x 12

(Yes the weights are in US pounds)

I did this circuit twice at 4-2-1 tempo, although on the front squats my 2nd set I did 95 x 8 and stopped. The one-legged stuff is to challenge my balance and stability. Suffice it to say I felt positively gay I even think some of the Bally's PT's were nodding in approval in my direction, that's how bad it was (Actually, 2 PT's were teaching deads today. ARGH the irony)

May as well add that this routine kicked my ass. I have horrible balance and endurance - I was sweating profusely and my lungs started hurting. I had to fight for dumbells and cable time, too. I hate this routine.

But I'll keep at it and try and try and make improvements. I'd like to build to 20 reps or so. I may sub out some stuff (I think I'm going to switch to db rows) and change the order around (front squat first)

 

[bignate73]

one system that kicked my ass at one time was NASM's S.E.T phase. the basics of it are this:

one stable exercise (seated cable row)
compound set to...
one unstable exercise (1 leg bent over dbell rows)

or

Bench Press to pushups (hands on stability ball)

or

BB shoulder press to Alternating front/side raise on one leg

tempo can be 2-2-0 for the stable then its 4-2-1 for the unstable. all of which are pretty intense. i sweated like a pig when doing them and the weight you use on the second exercise is humbling alot of times. one pairing of exercises is all you need.

 

[Jim Ouini]

A little snippet from MC2's Finnish dead secrets

The lifters in the early 80`s or late 70`s trained abs with flat or incline sit-ups using weight many times. Side work was done using a short bar or dumbbell. One other thing they did was one arm deadlifts. They stressed the stabilizing muscles a lot too.

I have to try these my next workout.

 

[blut wump]

One arm DLs are an exercise in finding the middle of your hand and the middle of the bar. I think I did either 100 or 105 Kg (225/235) when I tried them sometime around February. I should try again.

What are you calling planks and bridges? I know the activity but am just wondering which you're meaning with the two terms. I've usually seen them used interchangeably. When I do them I usually do 15 or 30s on the front; flip to one side; return to front; other side; front etc. for five minutes or so. My record on just holding the front position was a shade over five minutes but I've allowed it to slide.

 

[Jim Ouini]

One arm DLs are an exercise in finding the middle of your hand and the middle of the bar. I think I did either 100 or 105 Kg (225/235) when I tried them sometime around February. I should try again.

Is the bar in front of you or off to the side? I hadn't thought of having the bar in front....regardless, I don't think there's any way I could do 225 with one hand. You must have really strong stabilizers.

I'm thinking maybe 135 to start, once I can figure out how to balance the bar.

What are you calling planks and bridges? I know the activity but am just wondering which you're meaning with the two terms. I've usually seen them used interchangeably. When I do them I usually do 15 or 30s on the front; flip to one side; return to front; other side; front etc. for five minutes or so. My record on just holding the front position was a shade over five minutes but I've allowed it to slide.

What I call bridges are lying on the back, legs bent and feet flat on the floor. Then raise the hips up and hold for 10s.

And then planks are like a push up but propped up on the elbows instead of the hands. Lift the hips up and 10s hold.

I think what you do is called a 'side-bridge' (or 'side-plank, depending on how you want to look at it ).

5 minutes is crazy! I haven't done much dedicated core work in the past, I'm huffin and puffin after 5 or 6 reps w/10s hold on the planks.

 

[blut wump]

I straddled the bar so that ran between my legs. It's an awesome grip exercise.

Ah, like a wrestler's bridge but without taking the lift on the neck. If you decide to get into neck work, take it slowly.

Planks it is then. I have a really bad back and it was a choice between exercising my core into submission or giving up on life. We had one PT at the gym I used to go to who actually knew his stuff. He was offering a fitball class and a twice-a-week abs class. I went to both so I was doing two hours a week of core on top of my gym work. The guy was well hardcore with his abs and routinely had us doing sets of 150 crunches; medicine ball drops; the whole works. I remember sneezing a couple of days after the second session and I was almost in tears. Our first warm-up exercise was usually rotating the planks for two or three minutes. Another good (or evil) one was lying on your back with legs extended out and feet just off the floor. We'd just hold the position until there was one person left.

One time we had a stand-in since the usual guy was on holiday. It was then we realized how much we'd progressed. Towards the end of a pitiful session he looked at the clock and there were two or three minutes remaining. He said we'd do planks until failure. We laughed and told him there wasn't enough time left. He never offered to take the class again.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Yeah I think most people who take low back rehab seriously have good core strength by necessity.

Lots of the exercises I see for core stabilization are also for rehab, at least in the books I've seen.

I'm also doing very light reverse hypers, and I've seen it listed as a core stabilizer exercise which mildly surprised me since I'd only heard of it as a WSB ham/glute'er.

 

[blut wump]

If you're going to use the fitball and/or spend some time on your core, "Core Performance" by Mark Versteggen is one of those books worth having around.

Annoyingly, too much of the book is spent telling you why his course is so good with accompanying testimonials when he might have realised that you've already bought into the thing to be reading it. Lots of good core exercise plans in it, though, and it's a handy resource if you're travelling and don't have a convenient gym available.

 

[Jim Ouini]

My wife has that Core Performance book. Mia Hamm

I tried my first suitcase dead today with 135. Actually the weight was pretty light and I was able to maintain an upright posture for the most part.

But the damn thing was swinging too and fro without any rhyme or reason. I guess my grip is too weak to keep it steady (I kind of knew that already).

 

[blut wump]

Did you make sure that you knew where to hold it for balance on an empty bar? I found that swinging was a big issue when trying to hold a bar with one hand near to the middle. Any small imbalance will tend to tip one end and then you try to compensate and off you go. Even small variations in the weights of the plates can cause chaos if your hands are small. It's great for grip.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Well I thought it was right in the middle of the smooth part...maybe the weights were off a bit.

I guess I'll have to practice with an empty bar. I know what you mean about the grip, when the bar started swinnging I automaticaly started looking around for my straps until I realized they wouldn't do me any good.

 

[Kane Fan]

So I'm going to start a couple-3 weeks of some core/stabilization work before diving back into some strength stuff, and trying to decide on some exercises to do.

Basically I'd like to do all the compound moves for chest, back and legs but with more emphasis on stabilization performed at lower intensity for higher reps.

I hate to have to give up a deadlift variant, and I ran across something from Pavel called 'Suitcase Deadlifts' - it's like a conventional dead but you stand with the barbell to your side, bend your knees and pick it up with one hand like a suitcase while keeping your body upright (it's not a side bend). I'm thinking this would be a good challenge for my stabilizers.

Has anyone tried these? or do they just sound too silly?

The other exercises I'm considering:

Legs - front or overhead squat
Chest - db press on a swiss ball
Back - db rows on a ball
Shoulders - seated db press on a ball

I'd probably run this as a circuit. Any thoughts or suggestions?

yes, do not run it as a circit
and I dont' think high reps on suitcase deadlifts or OH Squats are advisable

 

[Jim Ouini]

yes, do not run it as a circit
and I dont' think high reps on suitcase deadlifts or OH Squats are advisable

Yeah I split them up into a typical horizontal workout with minimal rest inbetween. These high reps (15) are grueling for me.

And now I start with fronts for 5 x 5 and finish with suitcase deads for 3 x 5; on the suits my grip is getting better, today did 5 reps with 135. It really does seem to work the stabilizers trying not to lean over and do a side bend.

Note: today seemed to be deadlift day today at the gym. All manner of people doing deads - one guy was doing 'em with an EZ curl bar with 45's on each side under the supervision of a PT. Guy had totally rounded back, was way over the bar and wasn't touching the weights to ground between reps. All the while the PT was saying 'Perfect! There ya go!'

 

[blut wump]

I hate being in that situation. Watching and just wanting to tell the PT to clear off so you can show the guy how to do things properly. You know it'd be worse than taking in a stray puppy, though, and they'd probably kick you out of the gym so everyone would lose out, anyway.

Just avert thine eyes.

 

[Jim Ouini]

I find it impossible to look away...I don't know what it is, I'm sure it's low self esteem or something.

 

[Shepherd4]

Is the bar in front of you or off to the side? I hadn't thought of having the bar in front....regardless, I don't think there's any way I could do 225 with one hand. You must have really strong stabilizers.

The bar should be next to you (outside of your feet) set 90 degreees to where you would set it up for a regular deadlift. Consider the name. You should be bending down to pick it up exactly like you would a suitcase -- hence, "suitcase deadlifts." They're an excellent core (and grip!) exercise done properly. Load up the bar, squat down, find your grip and stand up. Keep your body aligned straight at all times. Remember, these are deadlifts, not side bends, so DON'T bend sideways to get the bar, and take each rep back down to the floor and reset between reps. I'd aim in the 6-8 rep range to start, but you'll find what works for you.

As for the other exercise mentioned above, one of the best ways to build truly functional core strength is with one-arm lifts. For example, one-hand dumbbell presses are a great core builder; just don't use your other hand grab the squat rack for stability (which would defeat the whole purpose). Forget doing anything on the swiss ball -- it's only going to limit the weight you're using. If you want to work on your balance, the swiss ball is fine, but nobody ever built a core strong enough to squat 400lbs while balancing on a swiss ball.

mpc

"Think of Tiger Woods out there hitting a bucket of balls. He's not swinging the 5-iron to get stronger -- he's swinging it to hone the groove. Hone the groove."

 

[Jim Ouini]

The bar should be next to you (outside of your feet) set 90 degreees to where you would set it up for a regular deadlift. Consider the name. You should be bending down to pick it up exactly like you would a suitcase -- hence, "suitcase deadlifts." They're an excellent core (and grip!) exercise done properly. Load up the bar, squat down, find your grip and stand up. Keep your body aligned straight at all times. Remember, these are deadlifts, not side bends, so DON'T bend sideways to get the bar, and take each rep back down to the floor and reset between reps. I'd aim in the 6-8 rep range to start, but you'll find what works for you.

As for the other exercise mentioned above, one of the best ways to build truly functional core strength is with one-arm lifts. For example, one-hand dumbbell presses are a great core builder; just don't use your other hand grab the squat rack for stability (which would defeat the whole purpose). Forget doing anything on the swiss ball -- it's only going to limit the weight you're using. If you want to work on your balance, the swiss ball is fine, but nobody ever built a core strong enough to squat 400lbs while balancing on a swiss ball.

Yeah it's great for the grip, besides just holding onto the dang thing I also have to keep it from moving up and down like a teeter-totter. And as I mentioned I can really feel it working the stabilizers but the thing I had to focus on was to try to deadlift it, not squat it.

As far as the swiss ball, I'm working on stability and balance and only lifting at 60% intensity or so for high reps. So for these I'm not so concerned with moving a lot of weight...should I be for building core? i.e, would I get better functional core strength by lifting at 60% 1RM on a swiss ball or 85%1RM on a bench?

I've done db flat and incline presses one armed in the past although at the time I didn't really know why, I think I must've seen it in M&F

 

[Shepherd4]

As far as the swiss ball, I'm working on stability and balance and only lifting at 60% intensity or so for high reps. So for these I'm not so concerned with moving a lot of weight...should I be for building core? i.e, would I get better functional core strength by lifting at 60% 1RM on a swiss ball or 85%1RM on a bench?

Remember the analogy of shooting a cannon out of a canoe? Your core is the canoe, and if you want to be able to translate power from your lower body to your upper body (for example, as when your upper body supports the bar while lower body performs a squat), your core is at, well, the core of the matter. Don't be afraid to train the core with heavy weights. Some of my favorite moves include: suitcase deadlifts, one-hand dumbbell presses and one-hand dumbbell thrusters. (A thruster is basically an ATF squat straight into a push press. A quick google search will provide better descriptions and video).

Also, training your core while lying on a swiss ball is sort of like training your lower back while wearing a belt. The whole point of training the core is to force your hips, abs, and lower back to support the weight through a given range of motion. If you're reclining on a swiss ball (or a bench), the swiss ball is going to provide some measure of support. Stand up, hand the swiss ball to the good looking girl doing tricep kickbacks, and use your body!

mpc

 

[Jim Ouini]

Great info Shepard. I've heard that cannon analogy before somewhere...

As far as core training is concerned I've read from both camps as far as, say, heavy squats vs. unbalanced training (like on a swiss ball) being the best.

I think they're all somewhere in the core training continuum...I'd like to try these one-armed presses and thrusters my next workout.