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Suggestions for my gf to drop a little muscle?

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AJag

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Ok, I know this is a relatively uncommon situation, but my girlfriend and I stopped by her modeling agency yesterday to pick out slides to put on her composite and the agent mentioned that she is "borderline too muscular" for mainstream high fashion but that if she wants to go the fitness route she's fine. My gf wants to do the mainstream work as well as the fitness stuff so she wants to drop a little muscle, mostly on her legs, and tighten up a bit. She's a natural mesomorph and has never really worked her legs that much in the past anyway. My plan was to have her stop all leg work (except calves which she wants to work on) and cut back on the volume of upper body work as well as adding in more cardio (most likely running on the track or treadmill). I was originally going to have her do a low dose cycle of var along with t3/clen but I think I'll drop the var and just have her do a 5 week t3 cycle along with clen/eca/nyc cycling. Her stats are 5'8 1/2" and 127 lbs at ~12%. Any suggestions would be highly appreciated! :confused:
 
She is absolutely gorgeous and I agree - SADLY she is too muscular for mainstream fashion modeling. Any woman who does NOT look like a starving 14 year old boy IS.

By the way, how old is she? She looks to be in her early twenties. I would guess 22/23.

If she doesn't cycle AT ALL she will not get much more muscularity so I do not see the point of juice. If she DOES - SHE WILL GET MORE LEAN MASS or even lean out more... which from what you say - is THE EXACT OPPOSITE of what she wants.

What is the point of clen and T3? Have her starve like the rest of the fashion world and she will be good to go (You all DO REALIZE that I am being fascecious BUT ACCURATE.)

There is money to be made on the runway and in commercial/fitness modeling... but she has to decide what it is that she wants: a healthy body or gaunt and starving and MAYBE getting work.

I have to run now, will be out all day. If you would like any clarification on any of my comments, I will be only TOO HAPPY to do jus that.
 
Bikinimom, thanks for your response. She's 23, so she's also got the disadvantage of a very late start...she has a full-time job in the health profession so she's really only looking at the modeling thing as some supplemental income and any more would be a bonus. She actually first shot for comps at 21 but due to a series of mishaps and miscommunications by her agency they didn't turn out and it took 2 years to get them to reschedule a shoot. Needless to say, we're looking for another agency.

She's definitely not going to AS cycle (she has never used in the past either) if she decides to pursue the high fashion end of the industry. My reasoning with the T3/clen was to help her burn some of her LBM along with a little bodyfat and get down to around 120. She has a naturally fast metabolism and she diets clean as well so doesn't have to resort to starving herself to drop weight.

She isn't going for the gaunt/starving look, which would probably entail dropping to 110-115 which she and I both agree is ridiculous. I think she looks great the way she is, but this is something she wants to pursue on the side and I am going to help her as much as I can. I really don't have any experience with having to LOSE LBM so the only things I could think of were to up the cardio, clean up the diet even more, cut back on the lifting, and incorporate a t3/clen cycle.
 
Oh geez - I appreciate what she wants to do but damn she is gorgeous just as she is.....there is something REALLY wrong with a country that would rather see skin and bones than a beautiful healthy woman like this. Best of luck to her whatever she decides to do.
 
she could easily be a full time fitness model with that body and her face is prettier than 99% of female fitness models. I think she should kep the muscle and go that route
 
I agree, diamond. She wants to do the high fashion stuff as well as fitness, though...that's why we want to get her right in between so she can go either way. She's interested in possibly getting into the fashion industry later on down the line, as well, which is another reason. She definitely does NOT want to be a waifish runway model, though. :)
 
I REALLY have to go now... BUT because of her age I am being honest - she will have AN EXTREMELY difficult time EARNING ANY MONEY AT ALL (This is reference to fashion). The fashion industry is driven by VERY YOUNG pencil thin waifs - NOT HEALTHY WOMEN (meaning ABOVE the age of 17 lol!).

It will COST her money ie: photogs, prints, comp cards, time taken away from work by going on go-sees etc...

I am NOT trying to discourage her, only BEING HONEST.

Now - if she were to pursue commercial modeling she can stand to earn a decent buck. But IT WILL STILL COST HER MONEY. No agency will invest their money in a model that is her age - sorry. The expenses will come out of her pocket.

So, she needs to truly assess what it is she wants to do.

I am no expert, but IMHO I believe that she should stay pretty much the way she is and pursue commercial/fitness modeling.

What are her stats?

She looks at though she is AT LEAST 5'10". Measurements? What area is she from (you can PM if you do not want to post such specific info). I can give you a link to a website that has listings for legit modeling agencies by state.

Good luck to her... Even if she never earns a dime she will have some beautiful prints and the satisfaction of never having to say, "What if?"

:)
 
AJag said:
I agree, diamond. She wants to do the high fashion stuff as well as fitness, though...that's why we want to get her right in between so she can go either way. She's interested in possibly getting into the fashion industry later on down the line, as well, which is another reason. She definitely does NOT want to be a waifish runway model, though. :)
Click to expand...
I'd just send her photos to the mags like musclemag and hope they hire her-as I said, she's better looking than most of the girls they regularly feature in their spreads
 
AJag said:
we want to get her right in between so she can go either way.
Click to expand...
So she'll be a too-skinny fitness model & too-thick fashion model? Do you really think it can be done to be "in between"? Doesn't seem possible to me. Besides, why not focus on one angle & try to be the best fitness model she could be instead of trying to balance between to extremes tugging her in opposite directions?
I agree with Diamond, her face is much more pretty than the average fitness model.
 
Thanks for the very helpful constructive criticism. I personally prefer the fitness look myself and I know she could get into fitness modeling more easily than high fashion, but I'd still like any tips you guys may have to drop some LBM and a little fat if she does decide to try and pursue the high fashion route. Other than utterly starving herself, that is. :) She's on a diet of 12 cals per lb now with a 50/40/10 split of carbs/pro/fat. She's currently doing 30 mins of cardio post-lifting 5x per week.
 
To burn more LBM she should do more than 30 min or cardio. Also doing cardio in a glycogen-depleted state forces her body to burn LBM for fuel, so FTITM on an empty stomach - or if she just hasn't eaten hardly any carbs for a while will help her burn that LBM. The higher intensity the cardio - the more calories, & likely LBM she'll burn, so as high intensity as she can stand - or Hi intensity intervals.

Definitely don't lift heavy - stay in a 12-15 rep range minimum. If she is serious about the goal of atrophy - she could skip *strength* training altogether & move to muscular endurance training - my guess is that would let her atrophy without getting excessively flabby & weak. If her gym has BodyPump/PowerFlex or 'sculpt' classes - this would be perfect 3X per week instead of her lifting.
:bawling: I hate saying that... this is what most women usually do to get a lean sculpted body & I spend all my energy telling them NOT to do that (BodyPump classes & cardio)... but that should do the trick. :bawling: That's how I feel at the though of giving up lifting...

Do you really think she needs to lose fat?
 
Gladiola, thanks for your advice. I wasn't going to have her stop lifting altogether, just cut the volume and up the reps on the exercises she does do. She will stop all leg work (except calves) however. I know this goes against everything both she AND I have been having her do... What do you think about the diet? Drop to 10 cals per lb? She's going to bump up the cardio to 45-50 mins 5x per week. Personally I don't think she needs to lose any fat, maybe a pound or two but not much. Her bodyfat is not the problem, unfortunately.
 
What really sucks is that she loves lifting. But I guess it's a sacrifice she's going to have to make if she wants to give it a shot.
 
You know, I was actually expecting for someone to accuse me of posting pics of a random beautiful girl that wasn't actually my gf way before your post showed up aurelius. I was quite impressed by the sincerity of the responses I received. I do have a few (poor quality) pics of the two of us taken on an old digcam and I have plenty of 35mm prints that I have not scanned in, but the reason I posted these pics is that they were done by a professional photographer, were put on slides, and were converted to high quality jpeg images directly from the slides. Since the purpose of this thread was to ask for suggestions on how to modify my gf's workout plan and diet to achieve her goals and not to gratify my own ego by posting pics of some random chick and pretend they were of my gf, I won't humor your skepticism by scanning some prints in or posting some digcam photos.
 
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Wow, what a pity to lose some of that. She is INCREDIBLY hot!



.... Wow.



.........Wow, she's really hot. She shouldn't change anything IMO.
 
I had the impression that 12% bf looked way leaner than that. Don't get me wrong, that woman is absolutely beautiful. Just wondering what other people think of this number?
 
Bf % is only part of the equation.... the amount of lean body mass is the other. A person at 14% bf and a good deal of mass will look leaner than someone with the same or even a little less bf, but LESS LEAN BODY MASS.

Did that sound confusing? Sorry if it did. It is like 2AM and I have had a long and somewhat productive day... in other words: G'NITE - I AM FRIED! :sleep2:
 
Oh, I certainly will not mess things up with her...if I do I should be shot. :) Yes, bikinimom is right about 12% bodyfat looking different on a woman weighing 127 vs. a woman weighing 150... And it was a caliper test so take it with a grain of salt. We only really follow the skinfold measurements anyway. We'll be getting a bodpod done next week so I'll let you know what the "real" number is.
 
You can go ahead and send me that pic. In a nightclub? Please. How about a normal picture couples take like while traveling? Or how about a brand new one with you holding a newspaper or a doll(if you´re into that) for proof.

Of course, you don´t have to proove anything to me. I´ll just keep thinking you´re full of it. Proove me wrong.:D
 
She looks great(my husband thought so too:) ) I don't have any suggestions, just wanted to say how pretty she is!
 
Ajag, as fAR AS TRAINING GOES overtrain her, 25-30 reps 5 sets etc...cardio. you can also carb deplete her prior to jobs.
 
wow.
How so u wheel a chick that looks like THAT?
Waaaaaaaay outta my league.
 
hrm... this thread seems a bit strange to me.. I was under the impression that a lot of musculature comes from genetics..

for example.. I and others have asked in the past whether it were possible to shed overly bulky calves.. but was told that its genetics and you can't change something such as that. So is this something different or what's the deal?

just curious.. some of you are talking about burning LBM .. i thought this was sacrilege!
 
She's GORGEOUS, got a Michelle Pfifer thing going on,,,I agree with the fitness model bit...she is much more beautiful then Stacey Lynn who is all over the mags and ads. I'd hate to see her turn into a waif...
 
Why don´t you put those posts on the public thread, AJ?

So, you can´t be bothered to scan a simple foto for proof but you can scan some professional photos to pretend this woman is your girlfriend? No way those were originally taken with a digital.

IT´s cool. WHo wouldn´t like to have that woman? Too bad you feel compelled, for whatever reason, to come to this site and lie about it.

Like I said, proove me wrong and I will gladly back down.:)
 
velvett said:
:worried:

Is anyone else slightly disturbed by this thread???
Click to expand...

i am with you on this one velvett... i find it quite disturbing :(

i especially disliked AJag's comment that his girlfriend needs to lose a couple more pounds of fat :mad: this girl is absolutely gorgeous the way she is now! it's comments like these that bring some girls to developing eating disorders. and this is a shame when it comes from people who are closest to you :(
 
It doesnt matter what she does....lose muscle/gain muscle --- the girl is absolutely beautiful!!!!! Those :eyes: are to die for....she needs to do what SHE wants to do --- tell her not to let ANYONE dictate her life
 
Millie: I never said I thought my gf needed to lose a few lbs of fat OR LBM. Her agency said that she was borderline muscular for high fashion and wanted her to drop a little on her legs (though they said she was fine for fitness modeling). She wants to pursue this and she asked ME to help her out in her pursuit. I love her just the way she is and I definitely don't want her to lose any fat or muscle. But this is something she's interested in and I'm going to help her if that's what she wants. Let me be very clear: I would NEVER push her to those extremes for my sake.

Aurelius: I have stated at least once that the posted pics are NOT digcam pics. They were professionally done slides that I took to a photography studio and had scanned in with a high quality slide scanner. Also, you'll be getting some mail with the proof you so desire. If everyone else thinks I'm a fraud and wants proof as well, I'll post it on the public site.
 
how many grams of protein would you say she eats per pound of bodyweight? this is important to know for diet suggestions to drop muscle... and did I miss her LBM? what is her average daily food intake right now?

don't completely stop training legs... just stick with the "pretty" shit.. like lunges (keep without weight), butt blaster machine, or kickbacks, add-abductors, sissy squats, step-ups, etc... she could do some light single leg extensions for added shape but zero size.... and same with the leg curls.. just keep them real light.. I'd say stay away from squats, presses, deads, etc. Maybe just do that once a week or once every two weeks...

and maybe she could do a little catabolic run of t3... (idea?)

dg
 
Oh... my freaking... GAWD! That woman is a goddess.

Does she reeeeeeeeeeeeeeally want to be a commercial model? She looks as if she has put a lot of time and hard work into her body, and it would be a shame to starve it away just to fit the skinny-ass mould. CKOne-Body-Type. :D I really do not think that you can be both a fitness and a fashion model. Two different worlds, man. She has such a great body. I encourage her to stay just as she is and, if she's really hell-bent on a modelling career, to go the fitness route. Don't sacrifice that healthy, beautiful body to the "norm," girlie!
 
OK, just to put this all into perspective for you guys. I lunched with one of my dearest gf's Thursday; a fashion model in NYC. (Funny my two closest gf's are models: one fashion/commercial, the other hardcore fitness and headed straight to the Olympia in the next few years - both to-die-for gorgeus but VERY DIFFERENT body types.) She was half-laughing/half-whimpering about coming from a casting for "plus sized" models. It was for a very respectable lingerie company. The pay? $8G's for four hours. Taking into consideration time for hair and makeup and the other mechanics of setting up the shoot (wardrobe and lighting) we are talking about an hour's worth of work - mayb one and 1/2 TOPS! THIS IS NOT HIGH FASHION.... IT IS COMMERCIAL MODELING.

Now she has been modeling since she was barely 17, is now 23. So this is how she has been supporting herself for quite some time. This is no "free pics for MuscleMag" bullshit stuff.

Oh... I bet you all are wondering what Manhattan considers to be plus size... She is 5'11" and is a SIZE EIGHT! Yes, you read it correctly a PERFECT SIZE EIGHT! That is why we were laughing about it. I am only 5'3" and she only outweighs me by a very few pounds. But I am between a TWO and a FOUR! We laughed even HARDER AT THAT!

Because I have had the benefit of experiencing and understanding that a photograph is a split second frozen in time: posing, lighting, wardrobe - everything coming together JUST RIGHT when the pic is snapped - YOU LOOK PERFECT! That is why I don't obsess over what I see in the mirror.

I always joke to people, "My ass ain't flawless, but I gots plenty of pics that SAY IT IS!" hehehheheeeee

There is no need to jump all over this brother as he is merely trying to help his gf do what SHE WANTS... There is A TON of money to be made in fashion modeling (not right away, but eventually w/experience). There is also SHITLOADS of money to be made in COMMERCIAL MODELING! Fitness is OK, but those chicks in Muslcemag, etc - DON'T GET PAID!!!! Many of them pay the photogs to shoot THEM and then the photos submit the pics to the publications and hope that they will be printed. The photog GETS PAYED, whereas the model ONLY GETS A TEAR SHEET! Now, the tearsheet is very important because the model puts it in her book and when she goes on castings this shows the potential client that she has job experience.... The big bucks are to be made in the catalogs for Sears and Dannon Yogurt, etc. I went on a casting over the summer for Dove soap. The job would have paid over 10G for the exclusive rights to ONE PICTURE!... probably one/two rolls of film shot - max 1/2 hours of actual work on the model's part. Of course, I knew going in that I only had the most remote chance at getting the job. They were looking for a brunette mid 20's to mid 30's with a very nice profile. My problem? The pose warranted one arm to be bent above the head making my bicep appear TOO HYUGE for a commercial market... Ah well, I went anyway as I figured, "What the hell?!"

It is UP TO HER. If this is what she wants then I say let her try. There is ZERO NEED for drugs. Just drop your protein intake a bit and do more cardio and don't do hardcore lifting. Really very simple.
 
Bikinimom, thanks for the wonderfully informative reply. Your candor is refreshing. I'm glad you pointed out again that it's not my opinion that my gf needs to lose any fat, LBM, or both to reach some "high fashion ideal." I think she looks great now and I think she'd look great adding LBM and going for a fitness-type look. But this isn't about what I want, it's about what she wants and appreciate all the advice I have received on this board. :)
 
BMOM - I'm glad you're there to clear the air on the whole modeling issues...I think most women need to hear the process of what really goes on...just let us know when we will see you next!

AJAG - I know you are on here because you are taking the initiative to help your GF out so she can achieve what she wants, that's sweet of you. IT would be nice to have her on to so we can share in her experiences! :)
 
You guys are welcome. I haven't done a shoot since August of last year. As a matter of fact, though I paid for my girls to go to summer camp modeling last summer, it was not enough to pay ALL the bills that I now have (ZERO childsupport - only free place to live so I AIN'T COMPLAINING) required me to turn to other means to support us.

After lunching w/my gf the other day I made a bit of a promise to myself to try and get back to it. If only to feed my creative desires. This literally means "hobby modeling". Which means that it won't COST me money, but EXCELLENT photogs will shoot me for prints. I get to put them on my website and if I want to have more cards made, etc and go on castings to look for work. then I will. And I can always charge less experienced to very inexperienced photogs to shoot me. This is how I payed for camp last summer.

Right now I am focusing my creative energies into other avenues to support myself and my girls. The work is hard, but just as with the modeling (which EVERYBODY around me laughed when I told them that that is what I wanted to do) I KNOW I can do this!

I do enjoy modeling tremendously and it will ALWAYS BE THERE... Yes, commercially AGE DOESN'T MATTER. But I would have to give up a considerable amount of my mass to do it. Right now, that isn't what I want....

I do have gobs of pics that I shot last summer that are sitting on a CD - never emailed them to my webmaster... I SWEAR that I will try to do it soon! :)

Again - brotha - GOOD LUCK to you AND your girl! :)
 
AJag said:
Millie: I never said I thought my gf needed to lose a few lbs of fat OR LBM. Her agency said that she was borderline muscular for high fashion and wanted her to drop a little on her legs (though they said she was fine for fitness modeling). She wants to pursue this and she asked ME to help her out in her pursuit. I love her just the way she is and I definitely don't want her to lose any fat or muscle. But this is something she's interested in and I'm going to help her if that's what she wants. Let me be very clear: I would NEVER push her to those extremes for my sake.
...
Click to expand...

I don't want to start an argument, AJag, but here is a quote from a previous post you made in this thread... take note of the last 2 sentences in it, where you are indeed saying that she could lose a couple of pounds of fat:

AJag said:
Gladiola, thanks for your advice. I wasn't going to have her stop lifting altogether, just cut the volume and up the reps on the exercises she does do. She will stop all leg work (except calves) however. I know this goes against everything both she AND I have been having her do... What do you think about the diet? Drop to 10 cals per lb? She's going to bump up the cardio to 45-50 mins 5x per week. Personally I don't think she needs to lose any fat, maybe a pound or two but not much. Her bodyfat is not the problem, unfortunately.
Click to expand...


Well, this is none of my business. I understand you want to help her, so good luck. It's just that your comment about the couple of pounds reminded me of one occasion when my best friend said something similar to me. For the next 2-3 days I was seriously contemplating going on a very calorie-restricted diet, just to be able to drop those couple of pounds that someone else thought I needed to lose.

Anyway, this is getting off the topic of the thread.
 
Millie: You're right, I misworded that statement. I meant to say, "given that she wants to get down to around 120, I can see that she could stand to lose a couple pounds of bodyfat." I meant that instead of losing ALL LBM, she could lose both. I'm sorry I did not clarify that, but I was keeping in mind her goal of wanting to lose weight. I prefer she lose fat weight to LBM. :(
 
My apologies if I am mistaken but I think that some time this week I followed a link on this board to a site with a lot of little pictures of beautiful fitness models. I think one of them was this woman. But I can't find the link now and it might not have been this woman anyway but one of the poses sure strikes a cord. Did anyone else notice it or am mistaken? If you know the site could you post it here, I would like to check it just to make sure Alzheimers doesn't have me yet.
 
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