stuck in a rut

[lilchit]

this is kind of a part II to another thread. i had a body fat scale and it says my bf is 19%. now i have calipers and instructions for a 7 point skin fold test that say its 14%.

stats again are 31 yrs, 5'3", 112 #.

doing high intensity low volume lifting with 1 day off per week mostly concentrating on squats

diet is 110g protein, 50g carbs (subtracting out the fiber as suggested), 30g fat

anyway, im still stuck. no more fat is coming off, and no more muscle is going on. and im lifting hard and eating clean.

should i change something, or be more patient?

 

[The Shadow]

Try 150 grams of protein
100-150 grams of carbs(depending on cutting or gaining)
50 grams of healthy fat

 

[Gladiola]

I'm going to 3rd that MORE FOOD! Also maybe rotating carbs (so you'll be rotating cals too with keeping P & F steady).

Are you doing any cardio (just curious)?
How many days a week squats? What does 'concentrating' mean? (like 8 sets of squats 2X per week?)

 

[lilchit]

not measuring myself. having somebody else do it. (id cheat. lol)
and i got suspicious after a couple of people told me theres no way that 19% was right. so i got the calipers. hell, i could have 10% or 50% for all i know. i have no other fit women to compare myself to. you can see some of my ribs and alot of my veins. i dunno.

im squating so much because i have bird legs. i do squat sets and drop weight till i cant go, then i come in and do leg curls. (if i can still bend my knees) also doing the back work you suggested in the other thread.

and did you say more food?

 

[lilchit]

cornholio (great name, btw) man thats alotta food! ill see what i can come up with. gonna read up on gladiolas carb rotation too.

 

[lilchit]

How many days a week squats? What does 'concentrating' mean? (like 8 sets of squats 2X per week?)

im not doing much cardio. some hit and miss jump rope and sprints.

by concentrating, i mean, well...i dont count sets or reps. i start with the bar and squat untill i feel like i have my form down pretty good. then i squat my max weight and go to failure, drop weight and repeat, till i just have the bar again. i do it every 4 days.

 

[lilchit]

not sore on forth day usually. usually sore thru the 3rd day. (although i dont quite have the hand of this. sometimes i can barely walk the next day, sometimes i barely get sore)

ok. ill start counting reps. i do know that i drop weight 3 times and have been thinking about fiddling around and making it 5 times. and maybe my max isnt enough.

 

[lilchit]

ok. 122. (how embarassing. i should raise it just so i dont have to type that again) i was working on staying in the pain zone, but i should probably use more weight too, huh?

 

[smallmovesal]

shush spatts... i likes my carbs

 

[smallmovesal]

lilchit i don't squat quite 100 lbs yet... that's one of my weaker areas. as long as i hurt the next day i'm happy.

 

[lilchit]

well, honestly i think i could go higher. how many reps should i shoot for on the heavy set? or in other words, how do you determine what is heavy enough? i have a spotter.

and ty, smallmovesall. what a classy woman.

 

[smallmovesal]

i'd just shoot for failure.

i don't tend to drop set though... i pyramid.

which leads me to a good question...

 

[Temple]

Sometimes I have a spotter and sometimes I don't. If I have a spotter I pack on what I "think" I can get 6 reps with. If I can squeeze out 6 I leave it there until I need help with the last rep or know I won't be able to do it again and then lower the weight. If I can get 8 easy - I add some and if I can only get 4 - I take some off. After a couple of times you will pretty much know where you are. I have been doing 5 sets of 6 and have been gaining rapidly.
If I don't have a spotter I use what I know I can get 6 - 8 reps with and keep the weight constant thru all 5 sets. By the end I am usually struggling for it but I never get so cocky that I have a wreck.

 

[lilchit]

I shoot for the weight I can grunt up for 1, but we have different goals.

sis, youre a STUD. and very motivating.

ok. think im getting a plan together here. shooting for the 150g protein, 100g carbs, 50g fat range.
carb rotation.
increase weight to only 6 reps in each set.
get 5 sets in, but done back to back with no rest.
squat only once a week.

and if theres anything else i should squeeze in there, ill find a way.

 

[Temple]

Why are you going to do your sets back to back with no rest???
If the weight is heavy enough you will need to rest between sets. I don't mean take a coffee break but wait long enough so that you can tackle the heavy weight again.

 

[Gladiola]

I can't understand not counting reps AT ALL when lifting.

Scientifically, you MUST stay within an 8-12 rep range - maybe as low as 4 reps, but if you exceed 15 reps in a set, you're doing muscular endurance training ("cardio" according to some ) and less than 4, you stand to hurt yourself.

I personally have never squatted a weight I couldn't at least do 7 reps with - but that is because I find it too easy to let form go on a squat (damn lower back arch going is my prob). I have to really focus to keep form. With a weight so heavy it's my 6RM, I'd feel too at risk.

I don't think someone who's not getting ready to compete in PL & also who isn't very experienced with lifting should be going lower than 8 reps per set. It's not necessary to get stronger (at this point at least).

There is a reason for the rest between sets - your body can only produce a limited amount of ATP anaerobically. You have to rest to give your body a break from the intense work -> so that you can work intensely again on the next set.

Squat heavy 8-10 reps, rest SIXTY SECONDS or so, go again.

I think doing squats every 4 days is fine - but you really should let your legs rest 48 hours after the heavy leg work - so that means NO CARDIO. Maybe some AR light work, but not a 60 minute bike ride.

 

[Gladiola]

There are ALOT of powerlifters squatting 1000 for 1 and they're not injured.

You can't apply the rules of power lifting to the general public.

 

[Gladiola]

I'mnot sure I understand the basis for this paragraph at all. Scientifically? Less than 4 you may hurt yourself?

I meant that if you go over 15 reps or so, you are [scientifically] not doing strength training, but endurance training.

As for going under 8 reps - YES, the risk of injury DOES increase. The risk of injury for a member of the general population to do a 1RM lift is probably MUCH greater than the risk for a power lifter to do a 1RM lift. I've never read studies on it, but doesn't seem to be a far-fetched thing to assume.

You do increase the risk going under 8RM & it is not NECESSARY to go under 8RM to keep getting stronger. -> But not that it's not beneficial.

Seems to me it is something for someone more advanced (i.e. squatting at least 1.5X bodyweight!)

 

[Hannibal]

As for going under 8 reps - YES, the risk of injury DOES increase. The risk of injury for a member of the general population to do a 1RM lift is probably MUCH greater than the risk for a power lifter to do a 1RM lift. I've never read studies on it, but doesn't seem to be a far-fetched thing to assume.

How does your body KNOW you are a powerlifter or not? True you are more accustomed to moving heavy weights, but under EIGHT reps is dangerous. BB use sets of 6 all the time.

 

[Hannibal]

Project used to get so irritated at the fact the it was squat day but we didn't actually squat.

He still does that....

 

[Temple]

I consider myself a BB that wants to be REALLY strong so what does that make me????? Hmmmmmmmm

It seems to me that the important factor is "proper form" - you can get sloppy at 1- 4-6-8 or 20 reps and you are still going to hurt yourself. A 1RM with proper form is different from a 1RM whatever it takes to get it up.

 

[Gladiola]

LOL - I'm mulling over my own point myself! ha ha

I remember reading while studying for my personal trainer exam that 8-12 is the ideal rep range b/c much over 12 is endurance training & under 8, the risk of injury goes up. That's why I said that.

Now.... just HOW true is this statement? Before anyone bashes my ACE Personal Trainer certification (which I passed, btw), the INFO in the manual comes from ACSM.

My instinct & experience says that less than 8RM is OK *sometimes* (a few sets worth on a heavy day) for *advanced* people - but not an appropriate part of a training routine for someone not advanced.....

The question becomes - am I right [scientifically]? What do you think?

 

[Hannibal]

The question becomes - am I right [scientifically]? What do you think?

What works for YOU? Doesn't need to be scientific...the end justifies the means. Find the rep range that accomplishes the goals you want and you will have your answer.

 

[lilchit]

temple asked why am i not resting between sets.

well, im doing drop sets. mostly because i LOVE them, but would switch if theres something more effective.

and on the topic of drop sets, spatterson said (and ive read this in other threads too)...................

I have used this method for 1-2 weeks in a row to get over a plateau, but never on a consistant basis. As for drop sets, they seem to serve a person better when done back to back, not with rest between.

of course, it takes a few secs to pull the weights off

 

[lilchit]

and i promise to do them correctly.

 

[lilchit]

ok. misunderstood ya. have been doing drop sets like they were all one really long set. will try resting 60 secs between.

no, no smith machine. (not sure what that is) partner and i are using the "mad dash to opposite ends of the bar" technique.

 

[Gladiola]

If you are dropsetting with little rest, then you are not recovered to lift as much when you get under the bar again

Exactly! I think of a drop set as ONE LONG SET. I do this at the END of *all* my work for one body part. I normally do 4 sets per exercise, about 3 exercises per body part. When I am done (or near down) with a body part, I'll do 2 regular sets (6-14 rep range, depending), followed by one drop set which ranges anywhere from a total of 12 to 30 reps (depending on how much I under or overestimate how much strength I have remaining!)

The drop set is one final way to annihilate the muscle at the END of the workout (on a heavy day), & not an intergral part of the regular training.

I also have never done drop sets of squats.

 

[Gladiola]

WHEW...!!!! I was busy searching for all the negative Smith Machine posts so I could paste them!

Oooh oooh can you paste them anyway? If there's any good data, I'd love to see it.

I've always just told ppl Smith machine stinks for the same reason that free weights are superior to machines -> your muscles have to work to stabilize the weights in space.

 

[Temple]

I consider myself a BB that wants to be REALLY strong so what does that make me????? Hmmmmmmmm

It seems to me that the important factor is "proper form" - you can get sloppy at 1- 4-6-8 or 20 reps and you are still going to hurt yourself. A 1RM with proper form is different from a 1RM whatever it takes to get it up.

 

[Arioch]

As a general rule, the lower the reps, the better your form, especially on lifts with a high CNS/Skill requirement such as the Olympic lifts. A very good example is when squatting, the lifter will lean more and more with each successive repetition, increasing both shearing force on the erectors as well as direct shear on L4-L5. This is one of the reasons weightlifters and powerlifters have a lower injury rate than others, as their rep range is generally lower.

 

[Arioch]

Gladiola, a couple of ref's wrt the smith machine and squatting are in this thread:

http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=140336

And, wrt lower reps being more dangerous, a couple of studies in the thread about shoulder training, which you should be familiar with, say otherwise:

http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=142219

And while I would agree that the risk is higher for a novice lifter to perform a 1rm than an experienced lifter, there is also more risk for every rep range, as the skill is simply not there, along with conditioning, etc.

Howeve, that being said, if a newbie insists on performing a 1rm squat, let them. Cull the herd.