Stretching to increase flexibility

[mrgravez]

Heres my story ... six years ago I was snowboading going down a diamond slope and someone ran into me, which resulted in me tearing the muscle around both of my knees. I have fully recovered since then and I am starting to learn MT but my flexibility isn't what it used to be by a long shot. I've played soccer throughout highschool and college until my accident and considered myself fairly flexible but after tearing my knees up I tried not to exercise them very hard until this year. I was wondering if anyone knew any good routines or sites that would have information on increasing flexibility in my legs.

thanks,

russell

 

[MikeMartial]

Which "muscle around the knees" did you tear? Quadriceps? Hamstring? Or was it a ligament injury? Did you require surgery?

At any rate, I'm assuming you are fully recovered. As far as flexibility goes....

...IMO, Thomas Kurz is THEE guy to lookup. His website has some great articles here; I highly, HIGHLY recommend his book, Stretching Scientifically. The basis of his functional flexibility is on dynamic stretching.

One of the best websites I've ever seen, with video, is this one: TricksTutorial's Flexibility Guide. The kid who wrote,filmed and designed the site has a wackload of knowledge when it comes to flexibility. Just don't mind the rest of the website, it's pretty lame. But those videos of dynamic stretching are exactly the same as what Thomas Kurz describes.

I use these methods daily, and I can easily kick head height with no warmup. Prior to using these methods, I ended up tearing one hamstring and pulling both, mutiple times, from practicing incorrect stretching. You'd be amazed at the schools that still teach passive static stretching prior to class.

 

[ass_face]

Which "muscle around the knees" did you tear? Quadriceps? Hamstring? Or was it a ligament injury? Did you require surgery?

At any rate, I'm assume you are fully recovered. As far as flexibility goes....

...IMO, Thomas Kurz is THEE guy to lookup. His website has some great articles here; I highly, HIGHLY recommend his book, Stretching Scientifically. The basis of his functional flexibility is on dynmanic stretching.

One of the best websites I've ever seen, with video, is this one: TricksTutorial's Flexibility Guide. The kid who wrote,filmed and desinged the site has a wackload of knowledge when it comes to flexibility. Just don't mind the rest of the website, it's pretty lame. But those videos of dynamic streching are exactly the same as what Thomas Kurz describes.

I use these methods daily, and I can easily kick head height with no warmup. Prior to using these methods, I ended up tearing one hamstring and pulling both, mutiple times, from practicing incorrect stretching. You'd be amazed at the schools that still teach passive static stretching prior to class.

Kurz, kicks ass... recently started reviewing Stretching Scientifically... Used to be able to do a full split using his methods.

 

[mrgravez]

I tore my quads, being all macho and stuff I never went to the doctors so I assume it wasnt a severe injury although I had enough pain in my knee if I tried to bend fully such as trying to do an ass to the floor squat to avoid legs completely for about 2 years. I just hope I don't have to have any type of knee surgery later in life . I've been doing squats for over 6months with no pain at all, except when I started running again I was getting shin splints although I don't get them any more.

thanks for the site and information above that looks extermely helpful and I'm going to read more into depth after I get off work and hit the gym.

 

[Djimbe]

I like Kurz , And I agree with anything I can remember him sayoing , Im just Piping in here that most of what he says Aligns pretty Straight Forward with Traditional Yoga and Tai Chi Flexiblility training , but NOT what you tend to see in Most Korean and Japanese type Martial Arts !

So look into Yoga , and Static Holds combined w/Movement through a full ROM is the Key .

 

[MikeMartial]

...that most of what he says Aligns pretty Straight Forward with Traditional Yoga and Tai Chi Flexiblility training , but NOT what you tend to see in Most Korean and Japanese type Martial Arts !

I don't quite think you're 100% on what you are saying, D. Kurz puts emphasis on dynamic stretching, which
directly crosses over into any striking art. Give me any student, be it TKD, MT or Kyokushin, and with one session of dynamic stretching, they'll be kicking a lot higher than with any type of passive, static, or isometric stretching.

As a side note, Kurz holds BB in Judo, Kyokushin Karate, and TKD. I've seen him throw a roundhouse at a focus mitt held almost 7 feet high. Believe me, what he preaches he practices, and the results show.

So look into Yoga , and Static Holds combined w/Movement through a full ROM is the Key .

As far as yoga is concerned, even Ashtanga yoga doesn't develop they type of practical flexibility that dynamic stretching would. And while Hatha yoga may develop passive static flexibility, it doesn't cross over into dynamic flexibility as much as people are lead to believe. Active static flexibility (static holds) are good for static strength, but not developing full ROM flexibility. And yes, I've done both Ashtanga and Hatha, and both have merit and compliment any MA. You are 100% correct on practicing movement through a full ROM, though---that's a key a lot of people miss, but I don't think yoga addresses this fully, IMO.

For simplicity's sake, here a very basic breakdown the types of streching, and what and when:

Dynamic: mornings, before a workout
Passive Static: after a workout, never before (this one too many people still do.)
Active static: Why, I don't know. Think of a floor gymnast holding a pose, or a ballet dancer. Not really applicable to a martial artist, IMO
Isometric: Advanced stretching if one wants to obtain a full split. Similar, but often confused with PNF stretching.

I had a rude awakening at age 29 after tearing my ham when I was trying to get back into martial arts. In the four years time since then, I've educated myself a fair amount on flexibility training, and I can easily say I'm a helluva lot more flexible at 33 then I was at 14. As you can also see, I'm a bit passionate about teaching and explaining proper flexibility training also.

 

[GreenFoot]

DRAGONDOOR.COM has a really good video called "Relax Into Stretch" by Pavel Tsatsouline. It worked great for me. I have never been flexible. I do jiu jitsu, and russian kettlebells. After following the video I had instant results. Look at the sit www.dragondor.com.

 

[heavy_duty]

can you "do the full splits"?

I don't quite think you're 100% on what you are saying, D. Kurz puts emphasis on dynamic stretching, which
directly crosses over into any striking art. Give me any student, be it TKD, MT or Kyokushin, and with one session of dynamic stretching, they'll be kicking a lot higher than with any type of passive, static, or isometric stretching.

As a side note, Kurz holds BB in Judo, Kyokushin Karate, and TKD. I've seen him throw a roundhouse at a focus mitt held almost 7 feet high. Believe me, what he preaches he practices, and the results show.



As far as yoga is concerned, even Ashtanga yoga doesn't develop they type of practical flexibility that dynamic stretching would. And while Hatha yoga may develop passive static flexibility, it doesn't cross over into dynamic flexibility as much as people are lead to believe. Active static flexibility (static holds) are good for static strength, but not developing full ROM flexibility. And yes, I've done both Ashtanga and Hatha, and both have merit and compliment any MA. You are 100% correct on practicing movement through a full ROM, though---that's a key a lot of people miss, but I don't think yoga addresses this fully, IMO.

For simplicity's sake, here a very basic breakdown the types of streching, and what and when:

Dynamic: mornings, before a workout
Passive Static: after a workout, never before (this one too many people still do.)
Active static: Why, I don't know. Think of a floor gymnast holding a pose, or a ballet dancer. Not really applicable to a martial artist, IMO
Isometric: Advanced stretching if one wants to obtain a full split. Similar, but often confused with PNF stretching.

I had a rude awakening at age 29 after tearing my ham when I was trying to get back into martial arts. In the four years time since then, I've educated myself a fair amount on flexibility training, and I can easily say I'm a helluva lot more flexible at 33 then I was at 14. As you can also see, I'm a bit passionate about teaching and explaining proper flexibility training also.

 

[MikeMartial]

can you "do the full splits"?

Nope, not even close. But I can easily kick someone 6'5" square in the temple, which would pretty much be a full front split for me, if I could pause at the top

Dynamic flexibility doesn't cross over into passive static flexibility very much; you'll see a better range going the other way, but not to the degree people think.

 

[heavy_duty]

how much power do you have on that kick when it is that high?
also how tall are you?

 

[jassdhali]

Dynamic Stretching & Kicking by Bill 'Superfoot' Wallace - wicked book - great routines

 

[heavy_duty]

LOL I think we have all worked out with superfoot at one time or another. (anybody over 35 anyway)

 

[MikeMartial]

how much power do you have on that kick when it is that high?
also how tall are you?

KO power easily. My left leg, lol, not so much. I'm severely right-dominant.

Kicking that high isn't a big deal---look at guys like Mirko Cro-Cop, Ernesto Hoost, Andy Hug. Even without a rigorous stretching routine, just by practicing day in and day out develops dynamic flexibility.

Height: 6'1

 

[heavy_duty]

bro that's just barely kicking over your head.
I thought you were gonna say you are 5' 9" tall and can kick a guy 6.5

 

[MikeMartial]

bro that's just barely kicking over your head.
I thought you were gonna say you are 5' 9" tall and can kick a guy 6.5

<shrug> You asked, I told.

 

[jackdeath]

Thomas Kurz all the way!!!!!!

 

[Djimbe]

I don't quite think you're 100% on what you are saying, D. Kurz puts emphasis on dynamic stretching, which
directly crosses over into any striking art. Give me any student, be it TKD, MT or Kyokushin, and with one session of dynamic stretching, they'll be kicking a lot higher than with any type of passive, static, or isometric stretching.

As a side note, Kurz holds BB in Judo, Kyokushin Karate, and TKD. I've seen him throw a roundhouse at a focus mitt held almost 7 feet high. Believe me, what he preaches he practices, and the results show.

I think you misunderstood my post . I didnt say it wouldlnt WORK with these styles , I said it wasnt what they tend to TEACH you . Actually I was TRYING to Imply that adding this to them would increase your Game .

As far as yoga is concerned, even Ashtanga yoga doesn't develop they type of practical flexibility that dynamic stretching would. And while Hatha yoga may develop passive static flexibility, it doesn't cross over into dynamic flexibility as much as people are lead to believe. Active static flexibility (static holds) are good for static strength, but not developing full ROM flexibility. And yes, I've done both Ashtanga and Hatha, and both have merit and compliment any MA. You are 100% correct on practicing movement through a full ROM, though---that's a key a lot of people miss, but I don't think yoga addresses this fully, IMO.

In my experience Vinyasa and Astanga , when taught properly , are alot about moving through different Ranges of Moton as thouroughly as possible .

For simplicity's sake, here a very basic breakdown the types of streching, and what and when:

Active static: Why, I don't know. Think of a floor gymnast holding a pose, or a ballet dancer. Not really applicable to a martial artist, IMO

Umm , actually IMAs stress this quite a bit , its holding Postures like Embrace Balloon , San Ti Shi , and Deep Horse Stances . that you tend to see it first , but its also the reason Taijimen hold Postures for so long , and do the form itself so slowly . You also see this quite often in Capoeira .

 

[heavy_duty]

can you do the splits on 2 chairs???

Thomas Kurz all the way!!!!!!

 

[jackdeath]

can you do the splits on 2 chairs???

Nope! close on the floor though!

 

[MikeMartial]

I think you misunderstood my post . I didnt say it wouldlnt WORK with these styles , I said it wasnt what they tend to TEACH you . Actually I was TRYING to Imply that adding this to them would increase your Game .

lol fair enough. I seem to misunderstand you a lot.

(Regarding Active Static Stretching)
Umm , actually IMAs stress this quite a bit , its holding Postures like Embrace Balloon , San Ti Shi , and Deep Horse Stances . that you tend to see it first , but its also the reason Taijimen hold Postures for so long , and do the form itself so slowly . You also see this quite often in Capoeira .

I'll go with that; some karate kata and one or two TKD patterns incorporate static holds. I was just referring to an actual practical application.

 

[heavy_duty]

cool
how long did that take?

Nope! close on the floor though!

 

[jackdeath]

About 10 years, and I'm not joking... The thing is I started and stopped alot, not good! After awhile I took the stretching more to heart, as before I was busy with a school and teaching, not taking care of me!

 

[heavy_duty]

I have not been to his web site, I'm gonna peep it tonight but in your opinion what should a MA order from the site?

Is there some stuff in the program that I can include while teaching class?

thanks

 

[MikeMartial]

I have not been to his web site, I'm gonna peep it tonight but in your opinion what should a MA order from the site?

Is there some stuff in the program that I can include while teaching class?

thanks

Are you talking about Kurz's website? If you are going to order anything, get the book Stretching Scientifically. It's the cheapest thing he sells, and ironically, the best product. Explains everything you need to know. Lots you could and should incorporate into a MA class---and also explains what shouldn't happen in a MA class.

 

[Djimbe]

I'll go with that; some karate kata and one or two TKD patterns incorporate static holds. I was just referring to an actual practical application.

Well , for Practical Application I think we have to go to a system like Taijiquan ...

This movement is , in application , a Fireman's Carry , Ankle Pick , and a pretty Nifty defense against a Shot , amongst other things as well . The Applications must be DRILLED and SPARRED with to WORK , obviously , but its the Mother Position for htese Motions , and Holding it for time and going through it at a SNAILS pace definately will Improve your abilities in all of hese TEchniques at Speed .

 

[MikeMartial]

The Applications must be DRILLED and SPARRED with to WORK , obviously , but its the Mother Position for htese Motions , and Holding it for time and going through it at a SNAILS pace definately will Improve your abilities in all of hese TEchniques at Speed .

Interesting. This is completely off topic, but I take it you believe practicing slow motion movements can increase technique speed?

 

[Djimbe]

Well , I "Believe" that Entrenching the Motions and being Strong in every Variant Phase of the Posture from beginning to end mekes the Technique Stable and Fluid and I think that both of those things are needed for the Technique to have Accuracy and be Useable at Speed . I do NOT believe tht this CREATES Speed in and of itself , but I do believe that it c can make it easer to use