St. Pierre vs. Serra

[gjohnson5]

I responded on the other thread. We'll have to see, but GSP looks too good and Serra has a herniated disk in his back

 

[Jacob Creutzfeldt]

I responded on the other thread. We'll have to see, but GSP looks too good and Serra has a herniated disk in his back

I read your reply just now. I responded in detail there.

GSP always looked good except when Serra beat him down and Penn outboxed him in round 1.

I think GSP does have more "tools in the shed" than Serra and is a better transitional fighter able to integrate all MMA skills into a smooth package. I think GSP has a strategic weakness where he needs to control the pace of the fight and Serra will try to negate that. Everyone facing GSP except Penn and Serra let GSP do this as he has so many weapons they are too busy countering him. Serra will go right at him like he did in the first fight.

 

[the_alcatraz]

Scott Steiner is a legitimate mat technician. Dude went through college on a wrestling scholarship and was ranked #2 in the Big Ten in his Freshman, Junior and Senior years. Dude was known for injuring opponents badly with standard holds and moves.

Now you factor in the fact that he is completely bat shit crazy. A psychotic in the true sense of the word. He has a typical Me vs. The World pissed off attitude 24/7. It ain't no act. Dude has so much hate and vile in him that it is scarey. Steiner is too big. Too strong. Too fucking mean. Too aggressive.

It's the big leagues now. It's no fuckin highschool reunion. I was captain of the wrestling team in highschool. Doesn't mean I'm gonna be champ in UFC. Matter of fact, it don't mean shit. Steiner wouldn't last in the ring with Fedor or Silva or even fuckin newb Brock Lestner.

 

[Jacob Creutzfeldt]

It's the big leagues now. It's no fuckin highschool reunion. I was captain of the wrestling team in highschool. Doesn't mean I'm gonna be champ in UFC. Matter of fact, it don't mean shit. Steiner wouldn't last in the ring with Fedor or Silva or even fuckin newb Brock Lestner.

Can Steiner even make it to the ring without taking a hit from an oxygen mask now?

 

[gjohnson5]

The problem for Serra is going directly at GSP will put him inside the kicks, but that will take him directly into the new wrestling skills. I believe if he keeps training that , then Serra will be outmatched wrestling. If Hughes couldn't dominate GSP on the ground , Serra won't either.

Serra has to knock him out with punches to win the fight as he did last time. I think GSP will take him down to the mat before he lets that happen. You pointed out that GSP is now a well rounded package. What that means is that whatever tool that Serra throws at GSP , GSP will have a counter attack. I think the skills will catch up with him.

I read your reply just now. I responded in detail there.

GSP always looked good except when Serra beat him down and Penn outboxed him in round 1.

I think GSP does have more "tools in the shed" than Serra and is a better transitional fighter able to integrate all MMA skills into a smooth package. I think GSP has a strategic weakness where he needs to control the pace of the fight and Serra will try to negate that. Everyone facing GSP except Penn and Serra let GSP do this as he has so many weapons they are too busy countering him. Serra will go right at him like he did in the first fight.

 

[Jacob Creutzfeldt]

The problem for Serra is going directly at GSP will put him inside the kicks, but that will take him directly into the new wrestling skills. I believe if he keeps training that , then Serra will be outmatched wrestling. If Hughes couldn't dominate GSP on the ground , Serra won't either.

Serra has to knock him out with punches to win the fight as he did last time. I think GSP will take him down to the mat before he lets that happen. You pointed out that GSP is now a well rounded package. What that means is that whatever tool that Serra throws at GSP , GSP will have a counter attack. I think the skills will catch up with him.

My point is that GSP doesn't have new wrestling skills, he already had them. He outwrestled Hughes in their first fight. He only lost when Hughes countered a kimura with an arm bar. GSP cannot counter well. That is my point. GSP needs to control the fight. When GSP has to counter, he's weaker. He isn't anywhere near adept at countering than initiating and that is why Serra Ko'd him in the first fight despite having inferior striking technique. GSP's weakness is countering in general. GSP is an offensive juggernaut, not a counter fighter.

 

[gjohnson5]

No , I'm with everyone else that his skills are new. he may have trained in wrestling and jui jitsu , but his skills were not polished and refined. If Matt Hughes reversed a kimura into an armbar, that means GSp has holes in his ground game that Matt Hughes exploited. That was not the case in the third fight. Matt Hughes was totally dominated on the ground and there was no counter he had for anything GSP did. His skills were that polished and clean. I'm with the announcers of this , that his skills are polished and clean (which is why I'm calling them new. I can claim to have wrestling skills since I wrestlied in high school (which was15 years ago) but If you cannot display them and use them when needed , how real is that answer?

http://ballhype.com/video/george_st_pierre_defeats_matt_hughes_at_ufc_79

Totally dominating performance if you have not watched it

My point is that GSP doesn't have new wrestling skills, he already had them. He outwrestled Hughes in their first fight. He only lost when Hughes countered a kimura with an arm bar. GSP cannot counter well. That is my point. GSP needs to control the fight. When GSP has to counter, he's weaker. He isn't anywhere near adept at countering than initiating and that is why Serra Ko'd him in the first fight despite having inferior striking technique. GSP's weakness is countering in general. GSP is an offensive juggernaut, not a counter fighter.

 

[crew9]

No , I'm with everyone else that his skills are new. he may have trained in wrestling and jui jitsu , but his skills were not polished and refined. If Matt Hughes reversed a kimura into an armbar, that means GSp has holes in his ground game that Matt Hughes exploited. That was not the case in the third fight. Matt Hughes was totally dominated on the ground and there was no counter he had for anything GSP did. His skills were that polished and clean. I'm with the announcers of this , that his skills are polished and clean (which is why I'm calling them new. I can claim to have wrestling skills since I wrestlied in high school (which was15 years ago) but If you cannot display them and use them when needed , how real is that answer?

http://ballhype.com/video/george_st_pierre_defeats_matt_hughes_at_ufc_79


Totally dominating performance if you have not watched it

GSP was training to make the Canadian olympic wrestling people, so "the people" who agree with you are wrong. GSP is an exceptional wrestler and that has been his bread and butter since day one of his mma career. Yes I'm aware he's also exceptional at karate.

Yes, he is more "polished" than he was a few years ago. That's going to happen when you are using multiple styles. It takes time to put it all together. That does not however mean he was lacking any one skill. Certainly not wrestling.

 

[gjohnson5]

He is now.... That's why I'm saying you (and Jacob) are wrong. His wrestling / BJJ skills are much better as of that last fight. I don't agree that GSP's bread and butter was wrestling, however. The detail you heard in the video about GSP wrestling with the canadian National team is evidence of himself wanting to be well rounded. But His original martial arts style is Kyokushin karate and is definitely more known as a stand up fighter. Anyway Yes , it takes years of training to hone skills and not sure where I said otherwise

GSP was training to make the Canadian olympic wrestling people, so "the people" who agree with you are wrong. GSP is an exceptional wrestler and that has been his bread and butter since day one of his mma career. Yes I'm aware he's also exceptional at karate.

Yes, he is more "polished" than he was a few years ago. That's going to happen when you are using multiple styles. It takes time to put it all together. That does not however mean he was lacking any one skill. Certainly not wrestling.

 

[the_alcatraz]

I see the majority of this thread favor St. Pierre.