Squatting help for newbie

[wooldog]

I've been having problems falling backwards when I squat. Someone at my gym suggested that I put two 5 lb plates on the floor, about shoulder width and put my heels on the plate when I squat, while keeping the balls of my feet on the floor, and push up through the back of my heels when I squat. I keep my back arched the whole time.

It works and I don't fall over anymore.

But I'm wondering this is a good idea? I mean is it safe for my knees?

Please go easy on me, I haven't been lifting weights long.

 

[Scotsman]

I don't like the idea personally I think it creates a lot of forward knee travel and can lead to many problems down the road.

A couple of suggestions for correcting your balance problem are:

Widen your stance and point your toes out more.
Lower where you place the bar on your shoulders.
Make sure your knees aren't coming together when you begin your push.
Make sure you begin the motion by pushing your hips back instead of bending at the knees.

Cheers,
Scotsman

 

[blut wump]

A block under the heels will tilt the shins forward and throw the knees forward. The net effect of this is to reduce the amount of stretch required to hit the bottom of the squat.

If you have these flexibility problems, avoiding the stretch is not going to help you in the long term. Doing full squats without the blocks is probably the best stretch exercise for you. You'll be able to do without the blocks in short order.

Follow Scotsman's suggestions for stability and reduce the weight for a couple of workouts so that you can get to full depth.

 

[DDizzy]

i havent been workin out long either i kno how what your goin threw wooldog.....take these suggestions and use them they will most likely help...and trust me once you do get the deep squats goin you will feel it...trust me...im feelin it as of now....signs of hard work....stay dedicated and your goals will be reached..

 

[wooldog]

Thanks, but I can only sqaut below parallel when I use the 5 lb weights. Without the weights I can't even get to parallel. Does that change things?

I figure it's better to go below parallel since I'm trying to gain weight and muscle mass and below parallel squating stimulates more muscles. I think my body isn't built to do below parallel squatting without the 5 lb heels.

I tried regular squatting for a couple of weeks and it just didn't seem to work.

Someone mentioned there were long-term effects to squatting with my heels on the weights...what are those long term effects?

 

[bignate73]

practice with varying stances. you could be too narrow or too wide.

check your flexibility all around. calves, inner thighs, hamstrings etc.

realistically, everyone should be able to squat ATF. i don't think you are a structural freak.

your form may be off, if you are trying to stay too vertical with your torso. it HAS to tilt forward a bit. the only people i see falling backwards are people who bend at the knees first and try to squat by staying completely vertical. what happens is their heels pop up and they dip down or they sit back but don't allow their torso to bend forward to counter balance.

 

[blut wump]

I can strongly recommend getting hold of a copy of "Starting Strength". http://www.startingstrength.com

The book goes into a lot of detail on form and technique on the major lifts. Unless you are aware of some specific disability you have then your need for the plates is almost certainly caused by a lack of flexibility. You can't just ignore this by removing the need to stretch in the movement and forever squat with plates under your heels.

If needs be, do free bodyweight squats at home, keeping your feet flat on the floor, and hold onto a table in front of you for balance. Practice until you can get the movement down deep without holding onto anything and you can do it with hands on hips.

 

[d-dub]

Also, if you squatting with a narrow stance, feet just outside shoulder width, try thinking about squatting so that your torso drops down between your legs rather than down on top of them. As was mentioned above try pointing your feet out slighty - like 30 degree angle or so. Not many people can squat deep with feet pointing straight ahead.

I found when i was less flexible it was easier to keep my form if I had at least a bit on the bar, this sort of pushes you down into position.

http://s22.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=20SE4KPKLZSMY2EN8SUM9N0M1F
And just for fun - a vid of some oly dude squatting 300kg (ironmind stuff). inspirational stuff.
Mad props to CCJ for the vid, I grabbed it off him over a year ago and still watch it to fire up for squat sessions.

 

[Scotsman]

Thanks, but I can only sqaut below parallel when I use the 5 lb weights. Without the weights I can't even get to parallel. Does that change things?

I figure it's better to go below parallel since I'm trying to gain weight and muscle mass and below parallel squating stimulates more muscles. I think my body isn't built to do below parallel squatting without the 5 lb heels.

I tried regular squatting for a couple of weeks and it just didn't seem to work.

Someone mentioned there were long-term effects to squatting with my heels on the weights...what are those long term effects?

This is a flexibility issue, most likely in your hips and hamstrings. Put a little bit of weight on the bar (like warm-up weight) and focus on coming down and stretching until you get all the way into the hole. This may take a few weeks but make sure to practice as much as possible. If you are sitting at home with nothing to do try doing standing free squats and polishing up your form whenever possible.

You should squat deep it is better for your joints, stopping at 90 is the worst possible thing you can do to your knees aside from forward drift.

The problem with squatting on the plates is that if forces your body to adjust balance. It does this by pushing your knees forward. Once the knees extend forward to about the toe line the stress from the weight transitions to the lower quads putting all the force on your kneecap. This can lead to tendon tears, quad detachment, and possibly Osgood-Schlater disease(where you get calcium deposits under the tendon on your lower leg, caused by tendon detachment and calcification of the exposed bone insertion).

Cheers,
Scotsman

 

[eat big]

If you can't go down that far it is flexibility. Warm up light as Scotsman said. You will eventually get the desired ROM.

 

[wooldog]

Thank you all so much for your suggestions. I tried to implement as many of them as I could remember yesterday and the results were pretty good. I worked without the plates and once I was really warmed up I had a pretty good ROM. I'm not there yet, but I'll keep working on it.

 

[Protobuilder]

I'm having the same problem. I've recently switched to ass-to-grass squats and can't seem to find a good balance. I either fall over backwards (trying to keep shins vertical and torso upright) or I lean too far forward. Can't find a happy medium. May very well be an inflexibility somewhere -- I'm working on that. Anyway, I've gone back to just trying to do it w/ bodyweight or the bar but here's the problem -- I can do it great . . . until I put my hands up on the bar and then, BAM, I tilt way forward and lose balance coming down. I can get all the way down no problem so long as my arms are out in front or down by my sides, etc., sort of acting as a counterbalance. Once I reach up to grab the bar, I can't get down w/o falling over.

Any advice?

 

[bignate73]

going ATF you won't be able, generally, to keep your shins vertical, save that for wide stance squats. you are supposed to tilt a bit forward, and sit down into it, your shins will shift forwards.

 

[Guinness5.0]

going ATF you won't be able, generally, to keep your shins vertical, save that for wide stance squats. you are supposed to tilt a bit forward, and sit down into it, your shins will shift forwards.

Yeah Proto - ATF olypic style squats and powerlifter squats are different. PL squatters shist the load to the hips by going very wide adn to parralel, while Oly squatters allow the hips to carry the load by going deeper, but with a narrower stance. THat's why the guy's shins are going forward in the vid I linked in your other post - he's Oly squatting.

 

[TheOak84]

i prefer a powerlifting stance, try that wooldog... and maybe putting the bar lower on your back (if it isnt already) get a good wide stance, lower yourself, feel that stretch in ur hams, then explode through your heals! it feels great...

 

[d3track]

i'm wondering if maybe db squats and front squats might be a big help here...

 

[wooldog]

I've been working on this since my first post. I thought I'd share what has been working for me: basically, keeping the bar lower, wider stance with more open toes, serious stretching before squatting, practicing going all the way down while holding onto a bar for stability--getting comfortable in that squatting position--, a lot of warm up sets, practicing with a mirror (profile view) at home.

Im wondering if those who have the same problem as me have short legs as well? My legs are relatively short. I don't know if this is part of the problem?