Something's Wrong

[Godspowersalami]

Hey guys,

I'll make this short because walls of text are annoying. I feel like shit. I'm in week 3 of a test e cycle, and I do not have any signs of the test kicking in. In fact, I feel I may have high (or low?) estrogen. I cannot get a boner, and the opposite should be happening.

This is what I did. I believe I messed up.

Week 1: 500mg test e
Week 2: 1g test e (I thought it was better late than never to frontload)
Week 3: 500mg test e (It's wednesday so my last pin will be friday)
Weeks 4-16: 500mg test e


Now I've got aromasin but I started taking it in week 2 because some little shit has been stealing people's packages around our neighborhood, so I had to start that late.
Week 2: 12.5mg EoD
Week 3: currently in the middle of 25mg EoD

Any ideas on what the problem is? Again, I feel lethargic and my dick doesn't work. I'm literally looking at porn right now and it's not moving.

 

[Godspowersalami]

I'm thinking maybe I might be underestimating the amount of estrogen in my body from the 1g of test e i'm taking, and that's blocking my boner and making me feel lethargic.

 

[Mia305]

Hey guys,

I'll make this short because walls of text are annoying. I feel like shit. I'm in week 3 of a test e cycle, and I do not have any signs of the test kicking in. In fact, I feel I may have high (or low?) estrogen. I cannot get a boner, and the opposite should be happening.

This is what I did. I believe I messed up.

Week 1: 500mg test e
Week 2: 1g test e (I thought it was better late than never to frontload)
Week 3: 500mg test e (It's wednesday so my last pin will be friday)
Weeks 4-16: 500mg test e


Now I've got aromasin but I started taking it in week 2 because some little shit has been stealing people's packages around our neighborhood, so I had to start that late.
Week 2: 12.5mg EoD
Week 3: currently in the middle of 25mg EoD

Any ideas on what the problem is? Again, I feel lethargic and my dick doesn't work. I'm literally looking at porn right now and it's not moving.

Bro most likely you have elevated estrogen levels. You never start a Test E cycle without some AI in hand. I'd take arimidex at 0.5mg ED. Arimidex is better while in cycle. Aromasin is better while on PCT.

 

[Godspowersalami]

Bro most likely you have elevated estrogen levels. You never start a Test E cycle without some AI in hand. I'd take arimidex at 0.5mg ED. Arimidex is better while in cycle. Aromasin is better while on PCT.

Thanks for the response. I believe that I have high estrogen now that you agree with me. It makes sense obviously that the more test I inject the more estrogen I'll have floating around.
Problem 1) I have no trusted dealers that sell arimi. Doesn't aroma clear it all the same though?
Problem 2) what doses of aroma should I be taking to remedy the situation? 25mg ed or eod?
Problem 3) what's the timeline for this problem being solved via higher ai dose?


Edit: sex drive is sort of down though, isn't that a side effect of low e?

 

[Mia305]

Thanks for the response. I believe that I have high estrogen now that you agree with me. It makes sense obviously that the more test I inject the more estrogen I'll have floating around.
Problem 1) I have no trusted dealers that sell arimi. Doesn't aroma clear it all the same though?
Problem 2) what doses of aroma should I be taking to remedy the situation? 25mg ed or eod?
Problem 3) what's the timeline for this problem being solved via higher ai dose?


Edit: sex drive is sort of down though, isn't that a side effect of low e?

Absolutely not, low libido and low sex drive can come from high estrogen, high estrogen is ALWAYS BAD FOR YOU!

Where do you live? If you cant get your hands on Arimidex, I'do 25mg ED Aromasin, and i'd drop to 12.5 eod after you see improvement.

In the mean while , i'd take 10mg cialis 1 hour before sex, just until estrogen levels balances. If you have instagram, there is page thati get the arimidex and cialis from. IG user Pro_performance they sell pharma grade. Also AG guys from here.

 

[Godspowersalami]

Alright, I'll up the dose then and look for an improvement. Thanks for the advice. I'll keep watching for any other posts to see if anyone has any other opinions

 

[dylangemelli]

i don't know why in the world you would opt to run one gram of test a week like you did... i just can't understand things like that... get your aromasin dose at 25 mg eod... if you need more, get it at AncillaryGuys // AG-Guys.com - The #1 online Natural Ancillary retailer!... please do yourself a favor and don't do things like you did with the gram of test... things like that are not helping you at all...

 

[Zyglamail]

You dont have your AI you dont start a cycle, no one to blame but yourself. Every day we see posts like this, too much gear, too little AI.

 

[Mia305]

You dont have your AI you dont start a cycle, no one to blame but yourself. Every day we see posts like this, too much gear, too little AI.

Yup. Right on point. Never start a Test cycle without AI. And that idea of
Front loading the test? BS for me, 1 gram of test is way too much testosterone, the body will just convert all the excess testosterone to estrogen , and bad things happen when this occurs.

Take this as an experience so you don't make the same mistake again.

You'll be fine though.

Good luck

 

[stevesmi]

rapid changes in T levels and estrogen levels can affect libido.

it is false that high estrogen necessarily effects libido negatively. I believe your issue is changing hormones are affecting you badly here.

I hope you ran bloodwork before starting and it would be smart to run bloods right now

 

[Zyglamail]

A.i.'s aren't always neccesary, but u should always have on hand just in case. And a gram of test isn't that crazy, it's actually a pretty average dose for a state level competitor. Get into the national rank and most guys are running 1500-2grams test along side many other things. Get ur a.i. Knock ur estro down and start making gains, simple and easy

There is no benefit at all for a man to have elevated estrogen levels and its comments like yours that encourage people to jump on half a gram of test without an AI only so we can see them 2 weeks later crying because they are getting gyno.

Most guys on TRT doses of test use an AI and here the OP is running 5-10x that much. When you wait to employ an AI you are then behind the 8 ball, E levels have built and the AI wont do anything against that build up it will only slow the creation of more. So here you sit with crazy high E levels and have to wait for the body to metabolize it before you can even get things under control from adding the AI. This is all time for your breast tissue to grow and other estrogenic sides to take place and for what?

With AI's as easy to get and as cheap as they are, there is no reason not to use an AI except ignorance or laziness.

As for dosing, sure, a lot of competitors run 1g a week and more but most of the folks here running that much gear have no business doing so.

 

[Godspowersalami]

Now I'm getting conflicting opinions. Are you guys sure about this? I'm using test e. I'm midway through week 3, and have used my AI for 2 weeks now. The test hasn't reached stable levels in my blood, so perhaps I'm simply nuking my estrogen levels and I'm low. I'm being told by a few others to stop my AI all together until I feel better or enough time passes where I feel no different. Again, my sides are:

Lowered libido
ED (Not even morning wood)
Lethargy
Moody
I do not have any gyno symptoms.

 

[Zyglamail]

Now I'm getting conflicting opinions. Are you guys sure about this? I'm using test e. I'm midway through week 3, and have used my AI for 2 weeks now. The test hasn't reached stable levels in my blood, so perhaps I'm simply nuking my estrogen levels and I'm low. I'm being told by a few others to stop my AI all together until I feel better or enough time passes where I feel no different. Again, my sides are:

Lowered libido
ED (Not even morning wood)
Lethargy
Moody
I do not have any gyno symptoms.

Quit guessing and get lab work done. The AI dose you started with is the dosemany would use on TRT doses of test (ie 100mg/wk) and your on 5-10x that much so logic would dictate your problem isnt too little E.

To be blunt, if you dont understand this shit you have no business running a cycle.

 

[Zyglamail]

U need to check ur stats before u come at me , I never said not to use one! I said not always neccesary!! Big diffrence. I can run 500mgs and keep my e at 30 and under easy. My body is diffrent than yours and the next. Notice I said have them on hand in case. A.i. 'A aren't great on lipid levels so if u can avoid them until contest time when they are needed for estrogen related fat then that's great!

Check my stats? Do you mean facts because your stats are irrelevant. And yes I did see where you said its not always needed, I never said otherwise.

Id love to see the lab work to support that claim! If it is true, your a lucky man and 1 in a million, definitely not the norm. As we have both stated the OP needs labs to see whats going on

 

[Godspowersalami]

Alright, I guess I'll have to go get bloods done. Thanks

 

[Zyglamail]

Alright, I guess I'll have to go get bloods done. Thanks

Thats the best option. It will tell you if your gear is bunk and what E levels are. If your gear is bunk and AI is good then you will have low E. If your test is good then you should have elevated E.

Frontloading should be reserved for people with a cycling history and have labs and experience to tell them how they respond to the high dose frontload AND the AI doses needed to deal with the E side effects.

Haphazardly fluctuating doses of AAS and AI's based on how you feel with no labs serves no purpose and provides no info for you to base future cycle plans on.

 

[John Juan]

A.i.'s aren't always neccesary, but u should always have on hand just in case. And a gram of test isn't that crazy, it's actually a pretty average dose for a state level competitor. Get into the national rank and most guys are running 1500-2grams test along side many other things. Get ur a.i. Knock ur estro down and start making gains, simple and easy


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Excellent post! I have Adex on hand but don't use it unless I feel estro sides. John O'Regan, trainer of the very young guys who turn pro,,,Dallas McCarver, Kevin Levrone, my good friend, etc., won't let his guys use estro blockers unless the gyno is bad. This is the way I do things. Estrogen is synergistic with testosterone and adds to muscle gains along with many health benefits estrogen offers. I'm on a gram of sustanon, 800mg eq, 600mg deca, and 200mg npp. I have tried to stay out of these discussions as the beliefs here are very contrary to my own and to the way the big guys do things. It's nice to see a post from someone who agrees. By the way, I have no gyno, no acne, no estro issues whatsoever. My avitar pic was taken 6 weeks ago....zero gyno.

 

[John Juan]

Guys I can attest to this , I've been following jjb1's post on other boards for years. Dudes a huge , dry , grainy beast!!

At about 6 weeks out from a show I like to add a.i.s because they help me "dry out" but offseason I honestly have never had a need. Last blast was 100 prop, 100 test phenyl prop, 100 npp, 125 test enathate eod and I had not one sign of gyno or estrogen related size. Some extra water? Slightly but you need that to grow!!


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Thank you! Exactly! Women live ten years longer than men on average. Estrogen is not the enemy. The only guy I knew in my 27'years of bodybuilding that seriously had tits was on several grams of test and he was injecting hcg everyday in high doses because he was told it was HGH. He didn't do his research.

 

[Zyglamail]

Excellent post! I have Adex on hand but don't use it unless I feel estro sides. John O'Regan, trainer of the very young guys who turn pro,,,Dallas McCarver, Kevin Levrone, my good friend, etc., won't let his guys use estro blockers unless the gyno is bad. This is the way I do things. Estrogen is synergistic with testosterone and adds to muscle gains along with many health benefits estrogen offers. I'm on a gram of sustanon, 800mg eq, 600mg deca, and 200mg npp. I have tried to stay out of these discussions as the beliefs here are very contrary to my own and to the way the big guys do things. It's nice to see a post from someone who agrees. By the way, I have no gyno, no acne, no estro issues whatsoever. My avitar pic was taken 6 weeks ago....zero gyno.

I have yet to see any sort of logical proof E, or excess water, aids in strength/mass gains. I also have yet to see any scientific data supporting high estrogen levels in men offers any benefit, quite the contrary its proven to be detrimental in many ways.

Whether we are talking nutritional needs, response to exercise, lab ranges or what have you, grab any group of people and plot a given data point and you will see a bell curve. I have no doubt folks like you and JMacky9 are on the extreme end of the spectrum when it comes to E buildup and I would bet many of the monsters who get away with no AI use fall in the same spot on the graph.

The fact of the matter is the numbers as reported in various studies as well as by posts we see here contradict that your methods should be the norm. I cant think of the last time I logged into EF and didnt see someone crying about gyno symptoms and high E.

There is no arguing we are all different but if one were to look at the issue logically, based on sheer numbers of people who have estrogen issues on even moderate doses of test, the intelligent approach for the new cycler is pretty obvious.

Go with commonly recommended dose of AI for your given cycle. Get labs a few weeks in and modify accordingly. Maybe you will be lucky and find you can greatly reduce or eliminate the AI BUT the numbers have shown us this is not the norm and more likely than not you will want/need an AI to keep E under control.

In my opinion anything but telling someone to cycle smart and get labs is irresponsible and detrimental to everyone who uses performance enhancing drugs. The more we rely on broscience instead of real science and erring on the side of caution the more likely performance enhancing drugs will stay in the shadows and be frowned upon.

 

[Mia305]

I have yet to see any sort of logical proof E, or excess water, aids in strength/mass gains. I also have yet to see any scientific data supporting high estrogen levels in men offers any benefit, quite the contrary its proven to be detrimental in many ways.

Whether we are talking nutritional needs, response to exercise, lab ranges or what have you, grab any group of people and plot a given data point and you will see a bell curve. I have no doubt folks like you and JMacky9 are on the extreme end of the spectrum when it comes to E buildup and I would bet many of the monsters who get away with no AI use fall in the same spot on the graph.

The fact of the matter is the numbers as reported in various studies as well as by posts we see here contradict that your methods should be the norm. I cant think of the last time I logged into EF and didnt see someone crying about gyno symptoms and high E.

There is no arguing we are all different but if one were to look at the issue logically, based on sheer numbers of people who have estrogen issues on even moderate doses of test, the intelligent approach for the new cycler is pretty obvious.

Go with commonly recommended dose of AI for your given cycle. Get labs a few weeks in and modify accordingly. Maybe you will be lucky and find you can greatly reduce or eliminate the AI BUT the numbers have shown us this is not the norm and more likely than not you will want/need an AI to keep E under control.

In my opinion anything but telling someone to cycle smart and get labs is irresponsible and detrimental to everyone who uses performance enhancing drugs. The more we rely on broscience instead of real science and erring on the side of caution the more likely performance enhancing drugs will stay in the shadows and be frowned upon.

Yup, everyone is different.