Something I just don't understand...

[Legion Kreinak2]

Out of everything, my arms barely grow on my body. Now, I've tried the 5x5 and DC training. I've done them consistently for at least a month and a half to two months at times. Now I know it may take longer for results to show, but just listen. First off, my diet was fairly in-check, as was the training. Moreso than my cousin, at least.

Now, he started training around the same time as me (around this time last year). He has been mainly sticking with a 2x/week split for each bodypart, doing 3x8 sets/reps for bodyparts when he trains them. His diet is definitely not as sound as mine is/was. He was eating maybe 2-3 meals a day, one meal consisted of roastbeef or tuna, nothing else protein-enriched in the day. He's about the same build as me. A bit shorter, a bit less fat.

His arms are bigger than mine. His numbers in military press and curls are greater than mine.

I don't understand it... He slacked off many days of training. He ate less than I did. And I didn't just eat junk food, I ate alot of protein, some good carbs for awhile (removed fructose from my diet too so as not to gain much fat)... and I just don't get it.

The only thing I can think of is his routine. Hitting each bodypart twice a week. True, DC hits each about 1.5x/week, but it's also with only 1 set. True, meant to be balls-to-the-wall but maybe that one single set doesn't do it for me. It makes sense when I read it, and I want to believe it...

But the results are just proving that what he does works... and pretty well. If he would've been consistent (even as consistent as me, which you all know, isn't very much) he most definitely would've wound up with even better gains.

Someone help me here... I'm so confused.

 

[Zander1983]

Two people are always going to respond differently, but I think a big variable is that his frequency is greater and he's doing more volume that doesn't take him to failure.... Why don't you try his exact workout and see how things progress? Alternatively, I'm sure you could put something similar into action.

 

[The Red Dragon]

There are so many variables involved:

Age - is he older than you?
Height - if he's shorter his ROMs will be shorter and his center of gravity is lower allowing him to lift more
overtraining/undertraining
consistancy
mental stress (from your personality)
form
genetics (big one)
metabolic rates and somatypes (has this been debunked yet)
rest
*compatibility of training and your body
fiber type ratios

...the list goes on

 

[Legion Kreinak2]

If greater frequency equates to greater size gains, then why would one do something such as (not to discredit) the 5x5 routine, which has you training once a week?

Red Dragon, you raise many good points there. I actually know alot of those he has over me, so that could be why.

Perhaps I'll attempt his routine for awhile and see what comes of it.

 

[SofaGeorge]

Time and time again... when I hear guys say their arms are lagging it is either one of two things:

1. choice of exercise

2. form

Usually, they aren't doing primary mass builders. Not all arm exercises are equal.

If they are doing primary mass builders - the form is off.

The problem is - people usually think they ARE doing the best exercise... and that they ARE doing great form - even if they aren't.

The mind can be your deceiver. This is why I periodically ask other people to design my routines rather than doing them myself. I want to take myself out of my own box.

 

[Legion Kreinak2]

Then could you maybe help me there? I use standing bicep curls for biceps, and closegrip bench presses with slightly less than shoulder-width grip for my triceps.

 

[Citruscide]

Time and time again... when I hear guys say their arms are lagging it is either one of two things:

1. choice of exercise

2. form

Usually, they aren't doing primary mass builders. Not all arm exercises are equal.

If they are doing primary mass builders - the form is off.

The problem is - people usually think they ARE doing the best exercise... and that they ARE doing great form - even if they aren't.

The mind can be your deceiver. This is why I periodically ask other people to design my routines rather than doing them myself. I want to take myself out of my own box.

Good advice... now answer my question on CM

C-ditty

 

[SofaGeorge]

Then could you maybe help me there? I use standing bicep curls for biceps, and closegrip bench presses with slightly less than shoulder-width grip for my triceps.

Switch to EZ bar curl as your primary with incline dumbell as your secondary biceps exersize.

Use skull crushers as your primary triceps. Use weighted dips as your secondary... or bring your grip in closer on the close grip bench ... slightly less than shoulder width is too wide to be optimal.

Also, you are a DC'r. It may be important for you to consider tossing DC for a while on your arms and trying another routine for a while.

I'm a huge fan of 5x5... but I will probably be switching to DC for the summer. Why? 'Cuz ya got to shake it up and try other things. That's how you learn.

 

[Legion Kreinak2]

No E-Z bar, but I guess I could buy one. I don't see how that makes it much different.

Skull crushers kill my elbows. I hate them to no end. Dips + Rotator Cuffs = pain. I can make the grip closer, however.

Perhaps I need more frequency and volume in my routines. I'm not doubting that DC works, but maybe that isn't for me. Maybe I'll respond better to something similar to what my cousin uses.

 

[guldukat]

No E-Z bar, but I guess I could buy one. I don't see how that makes it much different.

Skull crushers kill my elbows. I hate them to no end. Dips + Rotator Cuffs = pain. I can make the grip closer, however.

Perhaps I need more frequency and volume in my routines. I'm not doubting that DC works, but maybe that isn't for me. Maybe I'll respond better to something similar to what my cousin uses.

Legion,

1--Don't compare thyself to thy cousin my friend. Besides, I'm sure you've got him on several exercises.

2--One exercise for each of those groups isn't enough.

By that, I mean you need some variation. Your nervous system is burned out on doing those same two exercises over and over again.

I know your options are somewhat limited, but you'll just have to be creative.

You have dumbbells, correct? Then you can do a huge no. of different curls with them.

I'd buy the EZ bar, but not for biceps--for skullcrushers.

I would also consider doing reverse-grip bench presses.

Last but not least, I'd not train arms for a week. Even longer, if you can stand it. Just lop them off your regular workouts.

When you get started back, play special attention to keep your rep range high. I'd try to get into the 16-18 total reps (1 primary set, two rest-pause "sets") range. Alternate BB curls with seated DB curl, alt. w/ incline DB curls. Alternate close-grip press with reverse-grip, then maybe overhead DB extensions, EZ bar skullcrushers?, overhead BB ext.--you name it on that third movement. Dips only to parallel would also be good, and shouldn't aggravate your rotators.

During this time I would also make a concerted effort to take in 50g more protein daily. Hit your stretches with a vengeance. If, after a month, your lifts aren't all up appreciably and you don't notice any arm growth, I would first consider *less* work, not more. That is, drop the rest-pauses and statics. Just train to failure. Compare the two and see which yields better results.

If after three weeks of that (or six weeks total, if your first three weeks go well), you still haven't improved the way you'd like, then and only then you might start thinking about upping the frequency. You could do arms on a schedule like Dogg's old routine.

 

[jerkbox]

i've been doing DC for close to 2 months now....


and for the most part, I use the same exercises for bi's every time -

EZ bar curls - 12-16 X1

hammer curls - 12-16X1


I use as heavy a weight as possible, where I can get about 8 or 9 straight reps rest 15 sec, pump out another 4 or 5, rest 20 sec, blast out a last 1 or 2 reps. Try and do a static hold on that last one (nearly impossible)

my bi's and forearms have responded great to this.... better than a higher volume approach.

 

[dannywild82]

skullcrushers rule. they're my favorite exercise at the moment. there was a time they used to REALLY hurt my elbows and wrists. for some reason i got past it and it stopped hurting on their own. try to perform the exercise more slowly, and keep your upper arms perpendicular to the floor.
you could also try lowering to a different part of your face. i try to lower to the middle of my forehead.

 

[Thaibox]

squat

 

[Legion Kreinak2]

Guldukat, nice post. I still don't see the exact point of the stretches, however, considering hyperplasia has yet to be proven in humans. I perform them anyway, but I'm skeptical.

I never got to liking Skull Crushers, due to the elbow pain. Would an E-Z Curl bar actually null the pain whilst doing them?

Thai - I'd expect that from you.

From what I understand, any routine with intensity and consistency will cause growth. I don't doubt this to be so, but I just never got why it didn't work so well for me. I will say that out of every routine I've tried, I loved DC the most. It made the most sense, it was intense, proven to work (I'm taking everyone's word who's tried it and swears by it), and the workouts were extremely short. I loved every aspect of it. Maybe I'll give it another run, and this time have alternating exercises. I'm not sure how or why that could effect my gains, but I also have another thought.

Could it be, that using dumbbells caused my cousin's arms to cease relying on one another and grow to be bigger or stronger? The reason I ask is because I always hear about dumbbells being better for growth and such, and I know he only recently started doing straight BB curls. Before that he used dumbbells all the time. Perhaps that's what brought him the extra size?

Okay, well enough comparing. Yea or nay for having another run at DC - this time using different exercises each workout?

I guess I'm sitting here with yay.

 

[Legion Kreinak2]

Oh, and about the higher rep ranges for bi's, Guldukat and Jerkbox...

Why would one use higher reps on biceps? What about triceps, should I do the same? I did all my DC training with reps in the 11-15 RP range (besides the straight-setted exercises). Maybe that was wrong on my part?

 

[jerkbox]

well, I don't so much concern myself with the rep count....I just found that to be the ideal rep range to produce the kind of intensity I was looking for...


i would also have to agree with everything guldkat said....

what else are you doin for your tris? I don't think I could rely on close grips only for tris.....

 

[Legion Kreinak2]

Heh, I only do closegrips and standing barbell curls for biceps and triceps, respectively. I guess because I never had access to dips, skull crushers hurt my elbows, and tricep extensions felt awkward to me. As for biceps, no preacher curl attachment, though I have dumbbells and could most definitely do other kinds of curls. I just didn't see the point to using different exercises, as long as it gets the job done. Perhaps I'm wrong in thinking this?

 

[dood]

Did he start off bigger and stronger? I think that would the reason. Face it. He has better genetics. I also like his routine better. I think hitting each body part twice a week is better than once. Just don't do alot of sets each time. I don't think there is a difference between types of curls. They are all basically the same movement.