Someone explain to me why the US won’t do this.

[Tiervexx]

We give Billions away every year to foreign countries that are ungrateful and will hate us regardless.

We give away billions more in social security and welfare to people who should be supporting themselves.

Why don’t we just stop?!

Many people would say that it is cruel to let poor people suffer, and that it would be heartless to let all those people in foreign countries that we feed fend for themselves, that they would starve with out us. Do you honestly believe that people are that helpless? I will bet anybody anything that if we announce that they will be cut off in a given amount of time the vast majority of them will suddenly become a lot more capable and self-reliant.

We are doing these people a lot more harm than good by letting them become so dependent on our aid. If we forced them to become self-reliant they would suffer more at first but once they go used to it the majority of them would become much better off than they were before.

Once we have saved all the money that we throw away we could take a huge tax cut and still have a big budget surplus. I don’t think I need to tell people what happens to the economy after a large tax cut. With our economy exploding unemployment would go way down, American citizens and our trade partners would become much richer and happier.

The only downside to this plan is that some people may not be able to cope and will starve. I know many of you think that would be horribly cruel but it is not! This is natural selection! This is how nature produced us after billions of years and this is how we can continue to progress. Interfering with this natural and vital process is a far worse crime than letting a few ingrates suffer!

 

[DcupSheepNipples]

You must be young Whipper Snapper and now with your new found knowledge you are questioning every thing you ever knew!

This is how Global Geo Political Bribes work! Those in Power are helped while the people suffer! Common Sense and The Greater Good do not factor in the equation! Short of a Revolution, Global Nuclear War, or a Armageddon Meteorite it will continue to stay the same!

 

[chesty]

Because America is as stupid as generous. We listen to too many people and let too many people outside our country tell us what to do.

If we would just take care of business at home, we would have not a single person o welfare, living on the street or without a doctor.

Instead, we give away all of this money to country's that we even consider as hostile or the enemy.

 

[DcupSheepNipples]

if we did my plan we would have so much extra money we could bump up the milatary and cia to the point were attacking us would become almost unthinkable. I know it will always happen a little bit nomater what but it would make it a lot harder.

You forgot to factor in Pork, Bureaucracy and Politics in your Plan! More funds with these factors may make the problem worse!

 

[Tiervexx]

Instead, we give away all of this money to country's that we even consider as hostile or the enemy.

if we did my plan we would have so much extra money we could bump up the milatary and cia to the point were attacking us would become almost unthinkable. I know it will always happen a little bit nomater what but it would make it a lot harder.

 

[DcupSheepNipples]

I did not forget this. Since my plan involves eliminating a lot of government spending we could also cut out a lot of bureaucracy and make everything much simpler.

lol Welcome to the GNWO control under the heading of Utopia! Sometimes its better not to ask for something cause you just might get it!

 

[Tiervexx]

Short of a Revolution, Global Nuclear War, or a Armageddon Meteorite it will continue to stay the same!

Sad but true, there are way to many thick headed parasites that would rather spend working peoples' money than make their own.

Originally posed by DcupSheepNipples

You forgot to factor in Pork, Bureaucracy and Politics in your Plan! More funds with these factors may make the problem worse!

I did not forget this. Since my plan involves eliminating a lot of government spending we could also cut out a lot of bureaucracy and make everything much simpler.

 

[Tiervexx]

This is how Global Geo Political Bribes work! Those in Power are helped while the people suffer! Common Sense and The Greater Good do not factor in the equation!

Hold it

One of us is confused, are you saying that my plan is not for the greater good? You honestly believe that it is in everybody's long term best interests to continue the way we are?

 

[Tiervexx]

Dcup, you did not answer.

 

[DcupSheepNipples]

Hold it

One of us is confused, are you saying that my plan is not for the greater good? You honestly believe that it is in everybody's long term best interests to continue the way we are?

Even a Utopia Government has many faults! Your great intentions sound good on paper for the greater good but in reality you are not incorperating Human Nature in your equation!

 

[Tiervexx]

Even a Utopia Government has many faults! Your great intentions sound good on paper for the greater good but in reality you are not incorperating Human Nature in your equation!

This is true, people are much too stupid to do what i suggest even though the benefits should be obvious. The only way it could happen is if a monarch took power. And that could only happen in the aftermath of a terrible war.

 

[DcupSheepNipples]

This is true, people are much too stupid to do what i suggest even though the benefits should be obvious. The only way it could happen is if a monarch took power. And that could only happen in the aftermath of a terrible war.

However Human Nature would void the greater good you seek! Soon Power and Greed would destroy the Utopia! There is always a balance when it comes to governments! Some times they are equally balanced for a long time while other times they are weighed down to much on one side with ideals and then they come crashing down in a short period of time! Again only a outside force would ever cause a Utopia to exist on earth!

 

[Tiervexx]

Again only a outside force would ever cause a Utopia to exist on earth!

I know, I'm working on finding such a force. I'll let you know when I find one...This may take a while...

 

[Lao Tzu]

1. the US's foreign aid budget is not huge. roughly 15 billion, tops. And a good deal of that is to secure strategic interests.

2. As far as Soc. security and/or welfare, i cannot say. I don't think there is a 1st world country w/o welfare or SS so i don't know what the US would look like w/o it as i have no point of reference. But i am wary of cutting funds to 10's of millions of people. besides, i don't think the money is 'wasted' becuase people spend it on food, shelter and medicine which boosts the economy.

As far as this theory of natural selection being necessary to create a strong species, the world has advanced tremendously in the last 100 years, the same time period that welfare was developed. I see no correlation whatsoever between natural selection and the advancement of society. If anything, there is a positive correlation between welfare & the advancement of society. that or a massive coincidence happened so both occured at the same time.

PS, 70-90% of working, military serving, tax paying, voting americans support foreign aid done out of humanitarianism, even if it doesn't benefit the US.

http://www.worldviews.org/detailreports/usreport/html/images/figures/fig510.html

 

[DeepZenPill]

PS, 70-90% of working, military serving, tax paying, voting americans support foreign aid done out of humanitarianism, even if it doesn't benefit the US.

http://www.worldviews.org/detailreports/usreport/html/images/figures/fig510.html

Call me cynical, but very little that the government does is not self-interested. If we're giving aid to some nation, you can bet we're getting something in return, whether it be physical goods or just good old political influence.

 

[Lao Tzu]

i dont' know. We are supposedly going to Liberia for no obvious self interested reasons. And we give tons of food aid to the world.

 

[DeepZenPill]

Once we have saved all the money that we throw away we could take a huge tax cut and still have a big budget surplus. I don’t think I need to tell people what happens to the economy after a large tax cut. With our economy exploding unemployment would go way down, American citizens and our trade partners would become much richer and happier.

That's only assuming that the tax cut would equal the reduction in government spending. What is the likelihood of that? And even if they were equal, and unemployment went way down, we'd have an enormous increase in inflation, as unemployment and inflation are inversely related.

If we were really looking for something to solve this recession (which is being exaggerated anyhow), we would reinvest that 15 billion into another form of government spending: public works, military spending (yay more war!), etc.

Personally I'd rather have that cash go to feeding starving people rather than bombing the hell out of them.

 

[DeepZenPill]

i dont' know. We are supposedly going to Liberia for no obvious self interested reasons. And we give tons of food aid to the world.

Who created Liberia? The US did. It was created for ex-slaves who wanted to return to Africa. If we go to Liberia, we're trying to gain/keep some influence in that region.

And we give tons of food aid out for the same reason. Of course there is a great humanitarian aspect to this. It may not be completely in self-interest, but if we're giving food, you can be sure it's turning the people's opinion in our favor.

 

[casualbb]

The only downside to this plan is that some people may not be able to cope and will starve. I know many of you think that would be horribly cruel but it is not! This is natural selection! This is how nature produced us after billions of years and this is how we can continue to progress. Interfering with this natural and vital process is a far worse crime than letting a few ingrates suffer!

How dare you invoke natural selection! If you grew up in the same violence-filled countries with no father and no education you'd end up the same way.

Rationale like yours lead to the Holocaust. "It's okay, Jews are inferior. It's natural selection. We're doing everybody a favor!" Please examine your beliefs.

 

[chesty]

There is a truth to natural selection/survival of the fittest.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

We don't give away as much as you might think to othe rnations.

Domestically, we have decided that it is better to have our lower classes under government control (handout-dependent) than to force self reliance on them.

This is an old topic that we have bertaed here, and while your input is welcome, some research and persentation of newer arguments would be much appreciated.

 

[velvett]

A wife has two children a 6 month old and a two year old, her husband dies in a car wreck and she is left to care for her two children.

Her dead husband's social security kicks in to which she can help raise her two kids.


How is this a crime? How is this a bad thing?


True story btw.


This very same woman moved next door to her parents so they help cover baby sitting while she worked her ass off to make money to house, feed and put clothes on her too boys and have some extra money that her two boys could have bikes, and hockey skates like "the other kids" who had 2 parents.

Some of you need to learn what it is to lose everything and still come out fighting.










I haven't anytyhing to say about welfare b/c everything I do know about it is negative and ignorant.

 

[Code]

When state department ideals shift, and we stop supporting countries that hate us, our airplanes suddenly start playing tag with our skyscrapers.

Plus sending cash to other countries in exchange for exclusive trade rights as well as hard currency (vastly different than cash) is a win-win situation.

 

[john937]

Leave Social Security out of it.
People actually paid into Social Security more than the government ever pays out in benefits.
That's cause many people pay into social security and then die before they can retire.
The government drains off the Social Security trust fund to fund other programs and tax cuts.
Social Security was paid for by the people that are now drawing on it, and by others that will be drawing from it in the future.
Social Security is not in the same catagory as welfare.

 

[Lao Tzu]

Social Security was paid for by the people that are now drawing on it, and by others that will be drawing from it in the future.
Social Security is not in the same catagory as welfare.

yes it is. i've read many people who are on welfare are only on for a year or so and didn't collect for most of their lives. Welfare is cyclic too. People may be middle class and pump into welfare, then they may be poor and draw from it later.

 

[Ffactor]

There is a truth to natural selection/survival of the fittest.

There is an element of truth in that. At different times in history different people have been in power. For the last 200 years it has been Europe and now the US.

 

[PBR]

natural selection

1. the US's foreign aid budget is not huge. roughly 15 billion, tops. And a good deal of that is to secure strategic interests.

2. As far as Soc. security and/or welfare, i cannot say. I don't think there is a 1st world country w/o welfare or SS so i don't know what the US would look like w/o it as i have no point of reference. But i am wary of cutting funds to 10's of millions of people. besides, i don't think the money is 'wasted' becuase people spend it on food, shelter and medicine which boosts the economy.

As far as this theory of natural selection being necessary to create a strong species, the world has advanced tremendously in the last 100 years, the same time period that welfare was developed. I see no correlation whatsoever between natural selection and the advancement of society. If anything, there is a positive correlation between welfare & the advancement of society. that or a massive coincidence happened so both occured at the same time.

PS, 70-90% of working, military serving, tax paying, voting americans support foreign aid done out of humanitarianism, even if it doesn't benefit the US.

http://www.worldviews.org/detailreports/usreport/html/images/figures/fig510.html

well my friend-theory has it, since we have manipulated natural selection- we are now over-populated, and we are the only species on the planet to do so...this truely is one of the basis for most of our problems, we keep our sick and our incapacitated alive for years....we ourselves live longer- we keep building on the lands that used to produce food-to build housing to shelter our ever growing population....we are advancing alright- into a paranoid, over-stressed, underslept, over-worked, detached-society.....this is just my opinion.....big subject

 

[Testosterone boy]

Re: natural selection

well my friend-theory has it, since we have manipulated natural selection- we are now over-populated, and we are the only species on the planet to do so...this truely is one of the basis for most of our problems, we keep our sick and our incapacitated alive for years....we ourselves live longer- we keep building on the lands that used to produce food-to build housing to shelter our ever growing population....we are advancing alright- into a paranoid, over-stressed, underslept, over-worked, detached-society.....this is just my opinion.....big subject

Yet this society somehow finds at least 20 hours a week to blow on TV etc.

 

[chesty]

If you believe social security is enough to raise a child or two need to rethink that. Homeee, should have had some type of life insurance to at least get them by for a year or two.

 

[Lao Tzu]

Re: natural selection

well my friend-theory has it, since we have manipulated natural selection- we are now over-populated, and we are the only species on the planet to do so...this truely is one of the basis for most of our problems, we keep our sick and our incapacitated alive for years....we ourselves live longer- we keep building on the lands that used to produce food-to build housing to shelter our ever growing population....we are advancing alright- into a paranoid, over-stressed, underslept, over-worked, detached-society.....this is just my opinion.....big subject

housing does not take up much land. You'd be suprised where most people live. Over 3/5 of the worlds population lives in about 13 countries in southern & southeast asia. India & China alone have almost 1/2 the worlds population in them.

On this map

http://www.yourchildlearns.com/asia_map.htm

if you add the populations of every country south of mongolia & east of Afghanistan, 3/5 of the worlds population lives there.

when you compare that to the land mass of earth in general that is a small area

http://go.hrw.com/atlas/norm_htm/world.htm

I don't know what were going to do about food or water though. But housing doesn't take up much land.

 

[the nature boy]

Call me cynical, but very little that the government does is not self-interested. If we're giving aid to some nation, you can bet we're getting something in return, whether it be physical goods or just good old political influence.

you're right, US foreign aid is essentially a bribe.

only an idiot would think that the money we dole out actually helps the people it's intended. Instead it lines the pockets of the ruling elite of those countries (especially 3rd world countries). there is no accountability with foreign aid.

 

[bds20002002]

we need to stay connected to other members of the world. so we can learn their weakness and take them over.

gees. u guys saw conan the barbarian" to crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamendation of the women"

we are going to take over the world. and we are continuing in the arab nations=oil. and north africa=oil. once we secure the bulk of the earths natural fuel, then we will be in a much better position.

 

[atlantabiolab]

Leave Social Security out of it.
People actually paid into Social Security more than the government ever pays out in benefits.
That's cause many people pay into social security and then die before they can retire.
The government drains off the Social Security trust fund to fund other programs and tax cuts.
Social Security was paid for by the people that are now drawing on it, and by others that will be drawing from it in the future.
Social Security is not in the same catagory as welfare.

Social security is welfare since welfare is simply any government program designed to be a safety net paid for by the masses but only benefiting a certain group: unemployed, elderly, disabled, sick, etc. And the people receiving SS, presently, are not receiving the money they invested into the "program", since that money went directly into the national treasury and has long ago been spent. What they are receiving is the money that you and I presently pay into taxes every day and year. Our children will pay for our retirement in the future. Social Security is nothing more than enslaving the young to pay for the elderly, all while the population of elderly increases and the population of young decreases.

Your post actually shows a major problem with the actuality of SS, which is that your returns are minimal while your cost is high. Not to mention, government, to prevent having to increase taxes to pay for the increases in cost of the elderly, constantly change the requirements for receiving one's benefits.

Social Security, as most social programs, need to be gradually abolished and place the onus of providing for one's life back into the hands of the public. A man will always be more responsible with providing for himself and family than placing that burden on strangers. You don't tend to care when you have the ability to spend other people's money.

 

[Tiervexx]

Re: Re: Someone explain to me why the US won’t do this.

How dare you invoke natural selection! If you grew up in the same violence-filled countries with no father and no education you'd end up the same way.

Rationale like yours lead to the Holocaust. "It's okay, Jews are inferior. It's natural selection. We're doing everybody a favor!" Please examine your beliefs.

What i am talking about is very diffrent than the holocaust!

The jews were doing a great job of suporting themselves and carrying their own weight. What I am saying is that if the people in those countries can make themselves wealthy by devoloping on their own than it is their right. But we should not be interfering with their own devolopment. We should be concintrating on ourselves.

 

[Tiervexx]

Call me cynical, but very little that the government does is not self-interested. If we're giving aid to some nation, you can bet we're getting something in return, whether it be physical goods or just good old political influence.

This is true, we try to give money to pasify some potential enemies but this simply is not working, they hate us anyway, so we should just let them be.

 

[Tiervexx]

A wife has two children a 6 month old and a two year old, her husband dies in a car wreck and she is left to care for her two children.

Her dead husband's social security kicks in to which she can help raise her two kids.

How is this a crime? How is this a bad thing?

True story btw.

This very same woman moved next door to her parents so they help cover baby sitting while she worked her ass off to make money to house, feed and put clothes on her too boys and have some extra money that her two boys could have bikes, and hockey skates like "the other kids" who had 2 parents.

Some of you need to learn what it is to lose everything and still come out fighting.

I haven't anytyhing to say about welfare b/c everything I do know about it is negative and ignorant.

What happened to that woman is very unfortunate, but no matter how bad someone’s situation is they have no right to expect other people to pay for it.

 

[Tiervexx]

There is a truth to natural selection/survival of the fittest.

Thank you. I'm not saying that we should intentionaly starve people. All I am saying is that sometimes the best thing to do is let things happen.

 

[velvett]

What happened to that woman is very unfortunate, but no matter how bad someone’s situation is they have no right to expect other people to pay for it.

No one did.
She received widow's benefits.

 

[rsnoble]

You must be young Whipper Snapper and now with your new found knowledge you are questioning every thing you ever knew!

This is how Global Geo Political Bribes work! Those in Power are helped while the people suffer! Common Sense and The Greater Good do not factor in the equation! Short of a Revolution, Global Nuclear War, or a Armageddon Meteorite it will continue to stay the same!

For once ive finally looked into all your nwo preachings, and have to say I mostly agree with you. Fuck all of them.

 

[PBR]

Re: Re: natural selection

housing does not take up much land. You'd be suprised where most people live. Over 3/5 of the worlds population lives in about 13 countries in southern & southeast asia. India & China alone have almost 1/2 the worlds population in them.

On this map

http://www.yourchildlearns.com/asia_map.htm

if you add the populations of every country south of mongolia & east of Afghanistan, 3/5 of the worlds population lives there.

when you compare that to the land mass of earth in general that is a small area

http://go.hrw.com/atlas/norm_htm/world.htm

I don't know what were going to do about food or water though. But housing doesn't take up much land.

this maybe true...however- the land we do use is good fertile land....in my city-we have covered up the most fertile land in so.cal. with commercial business offices and plans for 2500 new homes...we dont choose to live in god-forsaken areas- realestate doesnt sell there...we use mostly prime land for living...not only that- but prime weather conditions also play into this....you cant grow food in sand, or any other wasteland where climates are a factor....then we populate that area- now we have to move all these people around- this means highways, business, gas-stations etc....more people, more land used up....no flame here- but I will stick to over-population as a large contributor to our problems...it goes along with every country, not just the U.S.....peace

 

[atlantabiolab]

Re: Re: Re: natural selection

this maybe true...however- the land we do use is good fertile land....in my city-we have covered up the most fertile land in so.cal. with commercial business offices and plans for 2500 new homes...we dont choose to live in god-forsaken areas- realestate doesnt sell there...we use mostly prime land for living...not only that- but prime weather conditions also play into this....you cant grow food in sand, or any other wasteland where climates are a factor....then we populate that area- now we have to move all these people around- this means highways, business, gas-stations etc....more people, more land used up....no flame here- but I will stick to over-population as a large contributor to our problems...it goes along with every country, not just the U.S.....peace

Farming technologies have dramatically increased the yield per acre, not to mention our nation pays our farmers to destroy crops to keep prices from dropping too low. We have no food shortage.

As for population increases and sprawl, an old saying is that "an environmentalist is one who already has his house in the woods".

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Re: Re: Re: natural selection

this maybe true...however- the land we do use is good fertile land....in my city-we have covered up the most fertile land in so.cal. with commercial business offices and plans for 2500 new homes...we dont choose to live in god-forsaken areas- realestate doesnt sell there...we use mostly prime land for living...not only that- but prime weather conditions also play into this....you cant grow food in sand, or any other wasteland where climates are a factor....then we populate that area- now we have to move all these people around- this means highways, business, gas-stations etc....more people, more land used up....no flame here- but I will stick to over-population as a large contributor to our problems...it goes along with every country, not just the U.S.....peace

That's nonsense.

a well thought out theory from an 8th grader maybe...or did you read an artciel abotu Asia and try to apply it to tghe US? I don't have time to teach you but i'll leave you a few questions:

Increased population / increased prodcution. what's the relationship and its impact on standard of living?

where is the most sought after land? How is the agriculture there?

What percentage of teh population lives within 50 miles of the coast?

Yawn.

 

[john937]

Get in a plane and fly New York to LA.
Once in the air, you'll spend about 20 minutes flying over cities, and about 6 hours flying over farmland, mountains, deserts and forests.

 

[chesty]

As for housing not taking up much land, you obviously have not been to places like phx or prescott az. Where once you could drive for 15 minutes on surface streets and be outside the city in undiscovered country. Now you have to drive for hours and you still can't get away from the population! Where I now live just 10 years ago was search and rescue territory, now it is just a bunch of houses and getting worse. There is very little public land any more to enjoy the outdoors.