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Someone explain the Gray Davis thing to me

Tarheel

New member
All I know is that he was elected last fall, and fucked up so bad, that even in Kalifornia, he got recalled.

What party is he? How did he fuck up that bad? Is it really his fault? What is the process of recall?

I remember seeing in some people's sigs to recall him, but I didn't pay any attention cause I never seriously thought it would happen, plus its in California.

I watched Arnold's speech today though.
 
Basically the republicans are just trying to finish what they couldn't the last time around: win cailifornia. I don't dispute this guy sucks cock, but how about the dems just pick a state and gather a measley 900,000 signatures, easy enough, and then what?
 
But what has he done that is so extraordinarily bad?
 
Lets put it this way if california was a third world country there would have been a military coup by now! Only the federal Gov is keeping the peace!
 
I honestly wish CA would finally have the "big one" and just fall off into the ocean. Hopefully Arnold will get out fast enough, and fuck everyone else. Especially the illegals. Oh wait, my best friend just went there to work for 3 weeks cause the economy is so bad. As soon as he gets back, then fall off.
 
I just wanna know what happened? Maybe the internet went dead in California, so none of them can tell us what happened. Thats why they kicked him out, he couldn't get them the internet so the roidheads couldn't get on elite, so all 900,000 got him kicked to the curb.
 
Tarheel said:
I just wanna know what happened? Maybe the internet went dead in California, so none of them can tell us what happened. Thats why they kicked him out, he couldn't get them the internet so the roidheads couldn't get on elite, so all 900,000 got him kicked to the curb.

Actually 900,000 signatures is an absurdingly easy number to obtain in a state with millions up millions of people, many who will just check the "change the gov." box thinking something good will happen. Ca has lots of problems. Some of it's biggest problems are Corporate America suing the state of CA for billions of dollars for not providing them with a safe tax haven, among other things. But you don't fucking hear about that do you? I didn't think so. Arnold will be in place for one reason, and one reason only: the Bush 2004 elections. Make no mistake about it.
 
America got raped by enron for like 10 billion. Basically Enron lied about energy availability, and then marketed energy to Calfornia as "scarce" and overcharged the crap out of it. Also most dot-com's were California-based, so when the tech bubble crashed, California had it worst.

There's two of the major reasons.

Now, why people are blaming Davis, I have no idea. Something like 48 of the states are in budget crisis, but you don't see Montana clamoring to recall their governor, do ya?
 
sad thing is, it takes much longer than grey davis's term length to fuck a budget this bad. Davis is overrall a shitty gov but his actions would never warrant a recall without this budget clusterfuck. I still have a feeling he has the option to step down before the recall vote and as a result of his forfeiture of office, the next in line would step up (democrat) and the whole recall vote would become moot.
 
casualbb said:
America got raped by enron for like 10 billion. Basically Enron lied about energy availability, and then marketed energy to Calfornia as "scarce" and overcharged the crap out of it. Also most dot-com's were California-based, so when the tech bubble crashed, California had it worst.

There's two of the major reasons.

Now, why people are blaming Davis, I have no idea. Something like 48 of the states are in budget crisis, but you don't see Montana clamoring to recall their governor, do ya?

The reason for the particular recall is that California has VERY liberal laws in place to protect the voting citizen - meaning recalls are part of the state constitution. Other stats don't have this luxury, at least not to the California extent.

Overall, to answer some of the first questions: Davis is a democrat who beat a Republican in the last election, now a Republican funded his recall. It was done ludicrously in my view with people signing the ballots (recall b) without even being residents of the state. For example, I am a Cali native but live in HI and went to Cali for a business trip, when I was there they asked me to sign the recall EVEN AFTER I told them that I was NO longer a resident, I was told it doesn't matter (which I knew is bs).

Currently, the state is in a $30B+ deficit, but what state is not (very few are not)...NY is suffering the same problem, but since NY has a different set of laws it's harder to recall. I think the only thing that Davis did wrong was being at the wrong place at the wrong time where California-hungry Republicans wanted the state. He needed WAY more then mere months to better the economy, the vague notion that he can turn a super-sour economy around in months is like me trying to become Ronnie Coleman within the next 5mo. (while I'm only 150lbs. now - example). California is the 800lbs. gorilla, so the Republicans need it bad, especially w/ Bush's fallen approval ratings (down to 53 from 58 in July).

Mr.X
 
x I totally agree with you, do you know anything though about his right to retire at this point, thereby allowing the second in command to step up to finish the remainder of his term? Second in command is a democrat, and if Davis has the right to do this, it seems as though the democrats would definitely go for it to maintain the seat.
.. even if a republican cand. wins the "recall" vote there is still a dem. majority in the house and senate positions for cali correct? People will always need things to bitch about and the media will constantly supply them. If Arnold gets into office I wouldn't be surprised to see a news article about how his former AS usage is responsible for the deficit.
 
casualbb said:
America got raped by enron for like 10 billion. Basically Enron lied about energy availability, and then marketed energy to Calfornia as "scarce" and overcharged the crap out of it. Also most dot-com's were California-based, so when the tech bubble crashed, California had it worst.

There's two of the major reasons.

Now, why people are blaming Davis, I have no idea. Something like 48 of the states are in budget crisis, but you don't see Montana clamoring to recall their governor, do ya?

Not quite. California's problems are directly related to their beloved failure of an ideology: socialist regulation.

Lawsuits Prove That Gov. Davis Deceived Public About California Energy Crisis
by Jerry Taylor and Peter VanDoren

Jerry Taylor is director of natural resources studies at the Cato Institute. Peter VanDoren is editor of Regulation, The Cato Review of Business and Government.
For at least nine months now, California Gov. Gray Davis has been screaming bloody murder about how corporate power pirates out of Houston have economically raped and pillaged the state of California, creating an artificial electricity crisis out of thin deregulated air. The story didn't appear to add up. But because the governor's office refused to release information about how much the state paid to whom for electricity over the past several months, who was to say?

Lawsuits finally pried that information out of Davis last week and -- lo and behold! -- "the biggest snakes on the planet" (Davis' words) were charging less than the publicly owned utilities of California itself and even less than the price charged by his right-hand man, David Freeman, head of the L.A. Department of Water & Power. And Davis turns out to have known it all along.

Until Davis coughed-up the data, the Left was in hog heaven, scoring point after point about how socialism -- at least in the electricity business -- was far preferable to capitalism. Alan Richardson, president of the American Public Power Association, recently told an audience that, "California is a great example of municipal utilities that have ... taken care of their customers while investor-owned utilities have taken care of their shareholders ... Every customer of a private utility is seen as a profit center. With public power, every customer is seen as our owner and neighbor." Anti-utility activist Harvey Wasserman wrote in The Nation that "dereg apologists are having a hard time explaining why two California power companies were immune to the crisis: the Los Angeles Department of Water & Power and the Sacramento Municipal Utility District. Both are owned by the public ... during the crisis, rates charged by both companies have been stable."

It turns out, however, that publicly owned utilities charged the state an average of $344 for a megawatt of electricity during the first three months of the year. Private companies were meanwhile charging less than an average of $250 per megawatt. And those Houston-based "snakes" -- Reliant, Dynergy, and Enron -- were charging less than the publicly owned utilities, less than the sainted and celebrated L.A. Department of Water & Power ($292 per megawatt), less than the Sacramento Municipal Utility District ($330 per megawatt), less than other investor-owned California-based power marketers, and less than the overall market average. Other more ambitious sellers include those municipal "good neighbors" at Seattle's City Light Department ($634 per megawatt), BC Hydro ($498), and virtually every other socialist power entity that bellied up to the California wholesale power market.

But that's not to say that the municipals did anything wrong. They had an obligation to local taxpayers to maximize their revenues. Moreover, it turns out that the markups weren't all that great. The cost of producing electricity at the margin was so high because of the run-up of natural gas costs; most of the asking price reflected the cost of spinning electrons back at the plant. "It's insulting to ask for any money back. We weren't part of the problem, and we helped the state in a crisis," Peter Fletcher of the Sacramento Municipal Utility District told the San Francisco Chronicle. "And it's not like we're doing well."

Another interesting revelation is how inept California state agents were when they tried to run a power system previously managed satisfactorily by the utilities. The state "called us and said, `we're looking for power at $500 a megawatt hour for a seven-hour period,'" Kate Hora of the Modesto Irrigation District told the Chronicle. "There was no negotiation. We just helped them out at the price they named." These are the business wizards that Davis wants to take over the whole system?

It should go without saying that this doesn't help the governor's price gouging argument. The story Hora tells of how the state behaved with her utility is consistent with the stories related by the private marketers. The state asks for power and names a price. The company agrees. And several weeks later, Davis & Co. scream about "the gougers." The story Fletcher tells - of prices mostly reflecting costs -- likewise belies Davis' contention that greed explains all. If Sacramento's municipal utility found it hard to make any money even with sales of emergency power at $330 a megawatt, what makes anyone think it was easier for Enron et al.?

The Left's entire California story, it turns out, was built upon a breathtaking series of gubernatorial falsehoods and demagoguery. If Davis and his duplicitous henchman, David Freeman, have an ounce of credibility left, it's only because the nation is too riveted on the Chandra Levy matter to pay any attention to the bomb that went off in Sacramento last week.

OPINION
TUESDAY • January 16, 2001

William Safire - Special
Tuesday, January 16, 2001
Los Angeles

Despite liberals' protests, capitalism didn't cause California's energy crisis

In the past decade, California has become the most Democratic state in the nation. It has a Democratic governor, two liberal Democratic senators, and both houses of its Legislature are firmly in Democratic hands. Not for nothing is it called the Left Coast.

Then why, Californians now ask themselves, is their state the most troubled in the nation? Bad enough that Hollywood's writers are preparing to strike; worse that speculators in Silicon Valley start-ups are watching their stack of chips dwindle; worst of all is the unforeseen electricity shock that is making the state's hair stand on end.

The price of electricity is soaring, yet the big electric utilities are threatened by bankruptcy. Who's to blame?

The chosen villain: deregulation. As soon as cruel market forces were allowed to work, cry liberal voices, those heartless capitalists drove up prices. Bring back the cool, calm days of inefficient monopolies under government control.

But in fact, the first villain is botched deregulation --- not as bad as in Russia, but 'tis enough, 'twill do.

California's politicians deregulated halfway, which is the worst way: Wholesale prices were freed from controls, but retail prices were not. Consumers remained seemingly protected, but the utility companies --- which foolishly thought wholesale prices would go down forever --- were enabled to buy on the spot market. Legislators, believing they were protecting consumers, forbade long-term contracts, which are hedges against sudden price fluctuations.

This halfway dereg ran smack into the inexorable law of supply and demand. The good times of the '90s sharply increased demand for electric power. But all sorts of obstacles were put in the way of increasing the supply of that power.

Result: Upward pressure on prices, calls for rationing, utilities going broke, government intervention that frightens off private investment, and the danger of an economic Big One in the state responsible for 13 percent of the nation's product.

The unspoken issue in this bastion of liberalism is ''NIMBY'' --- the real villain in the current supply crisis, that says ''not in my back yard'' to power plants. In San Jose, epicenter of the computer industry's drain on electric power, New Economy voters recently rejected a new power facility that offended their aesthetic sensibilities. Red tape and purple rhetoric are the reasons no major power station has been built in California in 10 years.

Contrary to popular belief, electricity does not come from the socket in the wall. The steady flow of low-cost power comes from factories that convert energy from other sources into the stuff that makes toasters pop, air-conditioners wheeze and computers beep. Unless energy is dug up and produced in real places and transmitted through real lines, nothing comes out of the wall.

Environmentalists recoil in horror at suggestions of nuclear power, now a safe and clean source of electricity, or the use of cleaned-up coal to lower the price of natural gas that generates it. Reducing pollution sensibly is laudable, but clean-air extremists become local heroes without telling constituents the danger of loss of Intel jobs and cheap electricity's household convenience.

The answer is not re-regulation, nor more halfwayism, nor federal bailout. When Gov. Gray Davis of California raced to Washington to ask for wholesale price controls, he found Bill Clinton too busy carving up Jerusalem to mediate; Clinton-appointed federal energy bureaucrats offer only palliatives, with photo op to follow.

Davis' panicked proposal to build state-owned plants (in Nevada? On the moon?) and his threat to seize the assets of ''price gougers'' may please dot-communists. But such populist pap destroys private incentive to invest and is hardly the path for a presidential hopeful professing to be a centrist.

After short-term action to alleviate hardship caused by past and present political- industrial blindness, our biggest state should avoid regressing into more stultifying regulation and instead get out of the way of stimulating supply.

Why do I sound like a reformed drunk on this? Because I wrote the Nixon speech imposing wage and price controls. They never work in peacetime. Never.
 
You're all missing the big picture. We want Davis out so Arnold can have the job.

There is a very real possibility that California will be attacked in the near future by robot terroist from the future... basically just cybernetic killing machines.

We need somebody who has experience dealing with them.
 
SofaGeorge said:
You're all missing the big picture. We want Davis out so Arnold can have the job.

There is a very real possibility that California will be attacked in the near future by robot terroist from the future... basically just cybernetic killing machines.

We need somebody who has experience dealing with them.


bwahahhahahahahaha:p LMFAO

Mr.X
 
Very simple.
Davis is totally incompetent except at one thing: blindly implementing every crackpot Liberal idea in the book. Along wihn the rridiculous California House, he is responsible for turning California into a shambles. IF he was smart, he'd resign and let the Lt. Governor carry on his administration's agenda. His ego is too huge to allow that, though. Much like the Clintons, he believes he is here to serve a higher purpose and lead the rest of us too stupid to find our own way through life.
 
Hangfire said:
Very simple.
Davis is totally incompetent except at one thing: blindly implementing every crackpot Liberal idea in the book. Along wihn the rridiculous California House, he is responsible for turning California into a shambles. IF he was smart, he'd resign and let the Lt. Governor carry on his administration's agenda. His ego is too huge to allow that, though. Much like the Clintons, he believes he is here to serve a higher purpose and lead the rest of us too stupid to find our own way through life.

Sadly... this is a very accurate description.

You can be totally incompetent and still be a good govenor... if... and I mean the big IF... you know how to utilize advisors. Most politicians aren't remotely capable of being well educated on all topics. The count on advisors to help educate and advise them. Davis as demonstrated time and again that he does not know how to utilize a good staff... or how to assemble one.
 
Hangfire said:
Very simple.
Davis is totally incompetent except at one thing: blindly implementing every crackpot Liberal idea in the book.

What specifically are these crackpot liberal ideas that he has implemented?

My city is in sort of the same situation. We had a mayor for 8 years that drove the city to near bankruptcy. Nobody ever said anything about it until the last 6 months of her term in office. She lost the election and now everybody wants to impeach the new mayor over the budget problem caused by the previous mayor. Basically the guy's taking the fall for the previous administration's mistakes. I don't see how this governor could screw up so badly in less than a year.
 
Fast Twitch Fiber said:


What specifically are these crackpot liberal ideas that he has implemented?

My city is in sort of the same situation. We had a mayor for 8 years that drove the city to near bankruptcy. Nobody ever said anything about it until the last 6 months of her term in office. She lost the election and now everybody wants to impeach the new mayor over the budget problem caused by the previous mayor. Basically the guy's taking the fall for the previous administration's mistakes. I don't see how this governor could screw up so badly in less than a year.

Well, Davis bent over for the environmental nuts who, for years, protested any new power plant construction. Davis completely mishandled deregulation, doing so according to the business-is-bad playbook he was handed by the crackpot Democrats in the legislature. On the surface, California is a beautiful place. But it is a model for how NOT to do just about everyhthing. Maybe its just perception, but while Californians think their state leads the way for the rest of the country, the rest of the country sees it as an ongoing experiment that is going awry. The overt effort to be a Liberal as possible in every instance, without logic, is absurd.
 
Fast Twitch Fiber said:


What specifically are these crackpot liberal ideas that he has implemented?

My city is in sort of the same situation. We had a mayor for 8 years that drove the city to near bankruptcy. Nobody ever said anything about it until the last 6 months of her term in office. She lost the election and now everybody wants to impeach the new mayor over the budget problem caused by the previous mayor. Basically the guy's taking the fall for the previous administration's mistakes. I don't see how this governor could screw up so badly in less than a year.

Davis has been governor since 98. Get the picture?

Every other states deficit can be traced back to overspending on socialistic programs. Instead of cutting out the programs that grow every year, they simply attempt to find some source of revenue to perpetuate their schemes. This most often times is accomplished by squeezing private industry.
 
He's was the king of this castle, but now the people are poised to mutiny. Energy Crisis, Budget Deficit, Illegal Car tax, and saying he will now support driver licenses for illegals are just a few reasons! He governed with a revenue fallacy that revenues would not go down. Anyone with half a Econ brain knows of economic cycles! He catered to, to many special interest groups and spent to much money with runaway expenditures in the California Budget when he knew revenues were going down! If you have a backward fiscal policy then you are going to end up with a mess and eventually the people will revolt when their is no money or services for them! Unfortuantly for him he governs a state that has a recall process on the books and the recall effort was organized! It was a perfect recall storm!

That's what happened and why their is a recall!
 
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honestly wish CA would finally have the "big one" and just fall off into the ocean. Hopefully Arnold will get out fast enough, and fuck everyone else. Especially the illegals. Oh wait, my best friend just went there to work for 3 weeks cause the economy is so bad. As soon as he gets back, then fall off.

are you dense? California is the only reason a Democrat can hope to get elected to pres in the near future. You want to see your cherished bush out of office? Wishing doom on California won't help.
 
casualbb said:


are you dense? California is the only reason a Democrat can hope to get elected to pres in the near future.

Your erroneous premise is based on the idea that a Democrat would be GOOD alternative to Bush. Things can always get worse.

You want to see your cherished bush out of office?

Yes. But not be replaced by a Democrat or Republican, or Green, or Reform, etc.

Wishing doom on California won't help.

What about making them part of Mexico?
 
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