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fistfullofsteel
Well-known member
since you have been on the special juice for many years and have a lot of experience. what mistakes did you make in the past that you would have corrected having the knowledge you have now?
SofaGeorge
- Thread starter fistfullofsteel
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SofaGeorge
New member
Interesting question 'cuz truthfully I still make mistakes. If I were to start a list:
1. Starting a cycle before I had all of my juice.
2. Starting a cycle and not realizing my vials were underdosed/underfilled... and thus not having enough to finish my cycle.
3. Not using Anti E's (I've never had a problem like gyno or anything, but until this cycle I never used arimidex. This is my first cycle since 1985 without water bloat)
4. Buying gear when I did not know the source to be reliable (only happened once... bought fake STERIS CYP in TJ this past January... and fake T200 and d-bol on the same run)
5. Fronting gear to friends. (Only once have I loaned gear to someone and ever gotten paid for it later. I don't care about the money, but I do care about losing respect for that person.)
6. Never reuse syringes. I've never had an abcess in 17 years. The friends I have had who have gotten them ALL reuse their syringes.
7. You CAN die from juicing. I know three people who have. Each of their situations was about as odd and unique as being struck by lightning, but they illustrate that you do have to be cautious and aware.
8. Chart your useage. (I am taking DNP now. It occured to me on the first day that an absent minded bit of forgetfulness could easily get me to take an extra cap or two just by spacing that I had already taken a dose. Very easy to do when you are juggling multiple projects... and possibly fatal.)
9. Not taking clomid after a cycle. (This is probably my all time biggest mistake, and I paid heavily for it just two years ago.)
10. Not reading and educating myself enough. I stopped reading about juice more than 5 years ago because I pretty much thought I knew as much as there was. The world passed me by in that time and I turned into a toddler on the subject.
11. Don't take baths when you cycle. I used to try to "soak" acne off in the tub. Getting your skin wet makes it 10 times worse.
I think I could go on all night about mistakes I've made. Maybe at this point someone else should add what they have learned from their mistakes.
Thanks for asking!
1. Starting a cycle before I had all of my juice.
2. Starting a cycle and not realizing my vials were underdosed/underfilled... and thus not having enough to finish my cycle.
3. Not using Anti E's (I've never had a problem like gyno or anything, but until this cycle I never used arimidex. This is my first cycle since 1985 without water bloat)
4. Buying gear when I did not know the source to be reliable (only happened once... bought fake STERIS CYP in TJ this past January... and fake T200 and d-bol on the same run)
5. Fronting gear to friends. (Only once have I loaned gear to someone and ever gotten paid for it later. I don't care about the money, but I do care about losing respect for that person.)
6. Never reuse syringes. I've never had an abcess in 17 years. The friends I have had who have gotten them ALL reuse their syringes.
7. You CAN die from juicing. I know three people who have. Each of their situations was about as odd and unique as being struck by lightning, but they illustrate that you do have to be cautious and aware.
8. Chart your useage. (I am taking DNP now. It occured to me on the first day that an absent minded bit of forgetfulness could easily get me to take an extra cap or two just by spacing that I had already taken a dose. Very easy to do when you are juggling multiple projects... and possibly fatal.)
9. Not taking clomid after a cycle. (This is probably my all time biggest mistake, and I paid heavily for it just two years ago.)
10. Not reading and educating myself enough. I stopped reading about juice more than 5 years ago because I pretty much thought I knew as much as there was. The world passed me by in that time and I turned into a toddler on the subject.
11. Don't take baths when you cycle. I used to try to "soak" acne off in the tub. Getting your skin wet makes it 10 times worse.
I think I could go on all night about mistakes I've made. Maybe at this point someone else should add what they have learned from their mistakes.
Thanks for asking!
strider364
New member
Bump for a good post. I think all newbies should read.
SofaGeorge
New member
Pebcak said:
Back in the '70s there was NO information at all about how much juice to use. The first book that came out was Dan Duchaine's book THE UNDERGROUND STEROID HANDBOOK (horrible by today's standards but gospel and brilliance back then.) I didn't start juicing till 1984-85 when I came into contact with a couple of Duchaine's "pupils" who could give me adice on what does and what drugs. Still, untill about 1992 the best we had was THE UNDERGROUND STEROID HANDBOOK PART II and a couple other piece of crap books that ripped it off. (This is why Bill Phillips made such a hit with Muscle Media 2000... it was following Phillips' news letter THE ANABOLIC REVIEW and was the first up to date juice info coming out).
The big thing we lacked was review of products. I used Brovel. Under dosed and underfilled... and several other cheaply made products. At the time I didn't know they were under dosed. I, and friends, just got the see after a cycle that we got lousy results and didn't know why.
Also, it used to be almost impossible to avoid fakes. There were NO reference pictures. There were no news groups to give warnings. Education was at a minimum. The only way I always avoided fakes was by luck. I traveled down to Mexico with my wife. She was a Spanish interpreter... fluent... and a juicer. She helped me make contact with all of the master distributors and major pharmacia suppliers. This has let my use the same main guy now since about 1989-90. (And he only just got arrested for teh first time this year after September 11.) These relationships also taught me something about the pharmacias and reps. The reps actually sell the pharmacias fake juice telling them it is fake. This way the shops can still sell juice (frowned upon for a while by Mexican authorities) but still be safe by Mexican law. Mexican law does not care if you sell fakes to gringos. (Here you would go to jail for selling fakes. There it is viewed as harmless fun.)
fistfullofsteel
Well-known member
great george, thanks. you da man. a little info on the cycles itself would be appreciated. do you bridge, and how much time do you take off? what was your longest cycle?
SofaGeorge
New member
fistfullofsteel said:
I don't bridge, but sometimes I just don't stop cycling. I've been on for more than a year at a time. I had no problem from that at all. I usually stay on a minimum of 6 months... and I am in the rare position that I know several "senior" juicers who have been cycling since juice became available. I know a couple ex-Mr. America's (and similar titles) who look fabulous in their 70's and 80's. They have no long term health problems (at least that are visible) from life long juicing... and to see how these guys look (one in his early 80's) after having done low dose juice cycles for 40 years tells me that juicing past the age of 60 is MANDATORY. I don't know any non juicers who are 70-80 that look remotely as good as the juicers... and I don't know any 70-80 year olds that enjoy remotely the quality of life. These guys are young. For them juice can be described as a revitalizing therapy... and the 80+ year old guy - I can say honestly that few teenagers and 20 year olds look as good as he does... six pack abs... bolt upright posture... and still physique modeling on occasion (though he mostly writes now.)
My cycles have changed often. I can still remember when I first saw d-bol. The guy showing me his tabs warned me: "Don't go above two." One tab was good, two was pushing it, and three was for insane monsters. You'd go crazy and maybe kill people.
A normal EQ dose for me was 150 mg per week. Some 'animals' went as high as 200... and nobody too 400mg of deca a week. You took 200mg deca a week only (and 25 shrink wrapped vials of Steris deca cost $80... and the guy would deliver it to your house. You could even phone the gym and leave a message for him.)
Many of the "old days" guys still stay low dose. I know several 40-45 year olds with great physiques who can honestly tell you that in 25+ years of juicing they have never used more than 1 sustanon a week... never more than 200mg primo a week... and never more than 15mg d-bol a day. (I know one current pro who honestly only takes 2ccs a week max. He is a freak in that he gets phenomenal benifits out of next to nothing.)
Standard cycles in the 80s were 6 weeks, 8 weeks, and 10 weeks was a LOOOOOOOONNNG one. Usually it was 8... but one Malibu juice doctor wrote some brilliant early articles about 6 week cycles being the best. His articles appear to be long lost... but to the best of my recollection he was the very first doctor writing publicly about physique enhancement from juice. He had a major client list of top hollywood stars and athletes. His cycles were all low dose... max 200mg week of test and 200 mg week of deca. His favorite cycle was 200mg deca and 20mg day of anavar. Many people will write that you won't see gains off of this. I followed his cycle patter several times... loved the results.
It has only been recently that I have been pushing up my doses. Prior to 1997 I never did more than 2 cc's of Sustanon a week with 300mg deca. Now I just finished a cycle of 1200-2000mg test a week with 50mg d-bol a day. People are not going to agree with me on this... but I saw equal gains from 1200-2000/50mg as when I did 500mg/25mg in 1995-96. And I can definitely say I had no complaints about any of the low dose cycles I did in the '80s.
I think one of the big reasons low dose cycles have gotten such a bad rap is the poor standardization of juice. If a guy boots 200 Brovel T200... he is going to be lucky to be getting 100mg of Test. Back in the 80's fake juice and underdosed stuff was not as common.
Don't get me wrong... TJ was flooded with fakes. I can still remember fake injectable anavar in every shop... and fake LABRATORIES DE MONACO on every corner... but all in all it was very easy to get legit juice.) (Doctors in the 70s/80s actually advertised "Will prescribe steroids for sports" as part of their service. Many many guys did their first cycle with the family doctor.
The real problems only started when the government cracked down on doctors giving patients juice. This was a major tragedy because until "Dr. X" started writing about the use of steroids to treat protein wasting in AIDS patients... AIDS patients were mostly denied the drugs. (A foot note here... a lot of the long term steroid dealers actually worked with the AIDS underground to help them obtain connections for large quanities of deca and other steroids when the AIDS patients were being denied experimental drugs by the government. It was juice smugglers... not the FDA... that saved lives of AIDS patients or at least extended the quality of some people's lives.
There are a lot of other juicers from the 70s and 80s. I'm hoping a couple others will hop on this thread and post their experiences. We've all seen a lot of changes over the years.
I am a big fan of the 6 - 8 week joy ride. I did a few in the early 80's with dbol at 30 mg a day. Nothing huge, but I did make some significant size and musculature gains. I have done a couple of what a call abomb runs (100 to 200 mg a day) over the past two years and had some great results.I'm considering the low dose route on a long term basis, as you mention. I have seen several people in the late 50's - early 60's I know who are in killer shape from similar programs and regimens.
fistfullofsteel
Well-known member
WOW, the father of Moses speaks. Wodin, why was your son such a player?
fistfullofsteel
Well-known member
WODIN said:
i knew it, i tell people this every time.
fistfullofsteel
Well-known member
in my short time i would like to say that:
1. sust250 is over-rated
2. test e. is great
3. deca is good too but watch out for the gyno
4. primo is awesome but tough on the hair and the injections suck
5. food is important, but keep a clean diet because it goes to your waist.
6. huge cycles don't equal huge gains
7. moderate cycles work great for me
8. bridge or keep going. cycling sucks for me.
9. if you don't have the money then don't try to cut corners.
10. trust nobody because everybody has a big mouth and don't know how to keep it shut. always deny.
11. train for real and keep training or you will lose your gains. (for me anyway)
12. don't go crazy and be superman in the weight room when you are on because you will tear something or get injured.
1. sust250 is over-rated
2. test e. is great
3. deca is good too but watch out for the gyno
4. primo is awesome but tough on the hair and the injections suck
5. food is important, but keep a clean diet because it goes to your waist.
6. huge cycles don't equal huge gains
7. moderate cycles work great for me
8. bridge or keep going. cycling sucks for me.
9. if you don't have the money then don't try to cut corners.
10. trust nobody because everybody has a big mouth and don't know how to keep it shut. always deny.
11. train for real and keep training or you will lose your gains. (for me anyway)
12. don't go crazy and be superman in the weight room when you are on because you will tear something or get injured.
SofaGeorge
New member
fistfullofsteel said:
Amen. All of my serious injuries have been when I'm on cycle and seeing my strength go up in leaps and bounds.
Mad-Fragger
New member
Thanks for great info
Great Info!
I'm a newbie researching sust, just wanted to say thanks for the great info here. A couple of you took some time at the keyboard to write this, I think it's very helpful.
laterz,
Mad-Fragger
Great Info!
I'm a newbie researching sust, just wanted to say thanks for the great info here. A couple of you took some time at the keyboard to write this, I think it's very helpful.
laterz,
Mad-Fragger
Zirakzigil
New member
SofaGeorge 2 questions 
1-- can a low dose cycle help with healing muscle injuries?
2-- what hapepned when you didn't take clomid, if you care to tell?
Thx
1-- can a low dose cycle help with healing muscle injuries?
2-- what hapepned when you didn't take clomid, if you care to tell?
Thx
fistfullofsteel
Well-known member
btw, the sust250 and primo was from turkey. the deca was from greece. the test e. was is made in spain (i think) but got it in mexican pharmacy.
SofaGeorge
New member
Zirakzigil said:SofaGeorge 2 questions
1-- can a low dose cycle help with healing muscle injuries?
2-- what hapepned when you didn't take clomid, if you care to tell?
Thx
1. I did my first cycle (after much research into steroids and their use in treating injuries) in an attempt to treat a long term leg injury. It worked miraculously... and I was sold on juice form that day on. Do a medline search and you will find many research studies on anabolic steroids being used to treat injuries.
3. When I didn't take clomid:
A. My sex drive dropped to an all time low
B. I back tracked a couple years in size and strength gains (It all came back in one cycle, though.)
SofaGeorge
New member
fistfullofsteel said:
12. Never buy anything that isn't Mexican made in a Mexican pharmacy. It is uncool in Mexico to fake Mexican products. It is a funny joke to sell fake Gringo products.
Zirakzigil
New member
SofaG - can you recommend any good books for a first time cycler? My main purpose would not be to gain muscle, but to treat a chronic leg injury that the docs are mystified over. Any other gains will be welcomed but not necessary. Any good books? Soorry for my ignorance. Everbody has to start somewhere I guess. Thanks
SofaGeorge
New member
Zirakzigil said:SofaG - can you recommend any good books for a first time cycler? My main purpose would not be to gain muscle, but to treat a chronic leg injury that the docs are mystified over. Any other gains will be welcomed but not necessary. Any good books? Soorry for my ignorance. Everbody has to start somewhere I guess. Thanks
I'm the wrong person to ask. Until I started signing onto EF I didn't even realize how far I was behind in info. The last book I read was the 1996 WORLD ANABOLIC REVIEW (WAR). I have heard that ANABOLICS 2002 is the most up to date book out, but my copy is still on order.
You might want to try PMing Wodin. He can probably give you a much better answer than I can.
P.S. Cool anecdote about my copy of the WORLD ANABOLIC REVIEW. In 1996, just after I got it and read it I met a kid from Russia online. He was 19... knew nothing about steroids... and was trying to learn about juice in preparation for his first cycle. (Juice sites were not very good back then and there wasn't a lot of info... even that recently.) I got his address and sent him my copy of WAR, a couple Gold's Gym Venice T-shirts, and a Gold's Gym hat. I got an email back from him later and he must have thanked me about two million times. He said his book was the only one anyone had or had heard of in his area... and because he read it cover to cover several times... he was now considered "The Expert" on juice... and weight lifters, power lifters, bodybuilders, and other athletes from nearby tons were actually coming to meet with him to consult on their cycles.
SofaGeorge
New member
towns not tons
fistfullofsteel
Well-known member
SofaGeorge said:
the stuff is/was called testoviron depot 250 and the guy who got it is hardly close to being a white guy. that's if gringo refers to white people.
