so working each body part 1/week really works?

[kentucky]

I ended a full upper body workout last week, in which I was doing it every mon, wed, and friday.


Today, I stated a routine, and worked chest and tris. But I MUST ask.

Will this really work...It feels like I'm cheating. Only working each body part once per week, just seems like too long for recovery.

I know everyone does this but why? recovery, or what???

 

[Lord_Suston]

many people do different . But I belive with major compound lifts the muscles are use more than once a week. I mean if you squat your back is use to stabilize and then when you hit back you work that muscle again and most likely legs as a driving force behind your deadlift. Hopefully this will make sense

 

[casualbb]

Sure working out once a week works. Everything works, at least to some degree. Will you be growing as fast as possible? No.

-casual

 

[BlkWS6]

Once a week works wonders for me. I wouldnt have it any other way at this point in time, and I have tried twice a week before.

 

[kentucky]

so why doesn't everyone (who it works for) work out twice a week?

 

[BlkWS6]

Originally posted by kentucky
so why doesn't everyone (who it works for) work out twice a week?


I don't quite understand your question. I think that everyone who see's results off of 2x a week are in fact doing it. I didnt see the results I wanted off of training 2x a week so that is why I stick to once a week. And I make consistent PR's training this way so Im going to stick with it for a while atleast.

 

[CAESAR7]

Sure working out once a week works. Everything works, at least to some degree. Will you be growing as fast as possible? No.

-casual

He means each bodypart once per week...

and yes, I do think each bodypart once per week is the best way to go...

 

[casualbb]

I understand. And I still stand by my statement.

-casual

 

[Lord_Suston]

Sure working out once a week works. Everything works, at least to some degree. Will you be growing as fast as possible? No.

-casual

dude, how can you say a such a blatant statement without considering personal genetics and conditioning.... Do you have the perfect routine or what??? and if you do give me your personal history progress and stats

 

[Lee]

well i do 2 days on 1 day off, and i feel bigger and stronger then i ever have before

 

[casualbb]

dude, how can you say a such a blatant statement without considering personal genetics and conditioning

None of the science I've ever seen supports once/week as best for either strength OR growth. For my thoughts on genetics and how they matter, go here:

http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=234338

I'd also like to add, back in the "golden age" of bodybuilding everybody did fullbody 3x/week routines. EVERYBODY. Even Arthur Jones, the godfather of HIT, originally prescribed them with great success. Suddenly "genetics and conditioning" is such a big issue? Weightlifters haven't changed.

How this low frequency idea was born I have no idea. Maybe when people started taking drugs it allowed them to get away with less effective training.

.... Do you have the perfect routine or what??? and if you do give me your personal history progress and stats

That's completely irrelevent. If anybody wants to argue the science, go for it. I'm open to seeing new credible sources of information -- that does not include "It works," because, like I said earlier, everything works to some degree.

-casual

 

[Aussie Juga naught]

I hit each body part once a week, I train with intensity and with a fair amount of volume. If you were to train the way I do, except hit each body part 2x or 3x a week you would be overtraining. It's easy for someone who trains like a pussy to hit each bodypart 3x a week because there workouts are so pathetic it takes them no time at all to recover.

Im guessing your the latter casualbb.

 

[Lord_Suston]

back in the golden age of bpodybuilding they took lots of steroids. Allowing them to train often, this is fact so I won't even argue this point. Also, I have stated before when working with major compound lifts you recruit other muscle as well, granted not to 100% but they are used none the less. I know I could never, and many here could never do a balls to the wall training session with the same body parts over and over in a week..

By not stating your own history it leaves a lot of credibility out. Imagine if I took every bums advice on how to be a great boxer and they backed it up with some abstract they read from a boxing magazine, that wouldn't really help my training now would it....

You should also state if you use Russian training methods that you consider light intensity day, and sport specific days.. This training is gear toward sport-specific such as olympic weightlifting... From your post it seems as if you advocate 100% intensity 3x a week on each bodypart....

 

[punch]

I hit each bodypart once per week and have been for over 12 years now. If any of you train the way I do, working your muscles twice in the same week is out of the question. However, for lagging groups it may make sense to incorporate a " second " day, but only occasionally. If your on SAUCE you could probably hit your groups twice a week easily. However, we all know that w/out you could potentially burn yourself out quickly. There is no concrete answer. If you feel you need to train each muscle twice a week go for it, its your body. LOL

 

[FatRat]

Once again there are just far too many variables to take into account when it comes to recovery. You have to go by the way your body feels and your progress under your own unique circumstances.

Personally, after a hi intensity, relatively high volume workout, I would want to wait 6 / 7 days before working that muscle group again. Therefore, I would opt for 7 for practicality.

With reduced volume training such as DC, I can just about get away with the 3 sessions every two weeks, but have to say that even with this my CNS starts to get overloaded after a month or so.

For me, 2x or 3 x per week just would not give me the recovery time AND THEN THE GROWTH TIME that I need

You pays the money, you takes the choice…

PS I would not necessarily consider the “fastest” way to gain as being the “best” way to gain, this is a marathon not a sprint, and you need to look at the long term!

 

[ffknight84]

from my experiances with my body I have found 2x a week heavy with a few days rest does it. Maybe due to the fact of my younger age my body recovers faster, I dunno. Ive tried once a week and dont gain any strength, and I've tried 3x a week and havent gained strength. We're all different

 

[casualbb]

back in the golden age of bpodybuilding they took lots of steroids.

I'm referring to before even that. Like the days of Reeves, etc.

From your post it seems as if you advocate 100% intensity 3x a week on each bodypart....

I believe in the cycling of "intensity" to produce weight progression, never to muscular failure. Working to failure is the true cause of fatigue and excessive time off. It's not even necessary to train to failure to make gains.

-casual

 

[kentucky]

so how do you know when you are fully recovered? is it when the soreness is gone or what?

 

[Debaser]

I hit each body part once a week, I train with intensity and with a fair amount of volume. If you were to train the way I do, except hit each body part 2x or 3x a week you would be overtraining. It's easy for someone who trains like a pussy to hit each bodypart 3x a week because there workouts are so pathetic it takes them no time at all to recover.

Im guessing your the latter casualbb.

You're kind of making me ashamed of being 1/2 Aussie. Anyway, to address your [ignorant] points:

1. You said you train with intensity and volume. DC training would allow you to train with ultra intensity and STILL workout 1.5-2 times a week. All of your volume is redundant and unneccesary.

2. HST has shown that your kind of intensity is not required to stimulate growth, and that doing submaximal weights most of the time allows you to workout 3 times a week. You can call these "pussy" workouts if you are so inclined. But I guess I'll be the "pussy" who is growing 3 times faster than you.

 

[Only1eagle]

I personaly do a basic 1 body part a day. However I do back/shoulders together. And monday/Friday I do the same body part.

IE:
M-Chest
T- Back/shoulders
W-Arms
Th- Legs
F-Chest
sat-off
sun-off
next week:
m-Arms
t-back/shoulders
w-Chest
t- legs
f-arms
sat-off
sun-off

This way I hit the 2 parts of my body that grow the slowest 2 times a week every other week. Also I dont want the big huge no neck shoulder look. Like the broad swimmer shoulder better.

just my 2cc's

 

[guldukat]

Once again there are just far too many variables to take into account when it comes to recovery. You have to go by the way your body feels and your progress under your own unique circumstances.

I think Casual means to say that the variables are accounted for when he's talking about hitting ea/ bodypart once weekly; i.e., the studies he's cited that recovery is fixed, that volume is minimal, that you don't go overboard on intensity, etc.

Personally, after a hi intensity, relatively high volume workout, I would want to wait 6 / 7 days before working that muscle group again. Therefore, I would opt for 7 for practicality.

Absolutely. With any kind of volume plus "high intensity," hitting something more than once a week is going to be awfully rough.

With reduced volume training such as DC, I can just about get away with the 3 sessions every two weeks, but have to say that even with this my CNS starts to get overloaded after a month or so.

For me, 2x or 3 x per week just would not give me the recovery time AND THEN THE GROWTH TIME that I need

Well, for that month, if you were getting stronger, you probably had ample recovery time.

I think it's important to make the distinction between what's ideal for relatively short periods--push, back off, push, back off--and what's good for the very long-term.

If someone planned to do very hard work on a bodypart, even with minimal volume, for 3x week for weeks on end, they are going to burn out. Fast.

I don't think Casual is suggesting that. As a HST advocate, his 3x weekly bodypart hits aren't all balls to the wall as I understand it. That's not to say they're not hard...but I don't think HST has you at your maximum output for a real long time.

You pays the money, you takes the choice…

PS I would not necessarily consider the “fastest” way to gain as being the “best” way to gain, this is a marathon not a sprint, and you need to look at the long term!

That's true, though I see it more as a long series of sprints followed by walking real slow

It is very important to look at the big picture, though, and I think some of you guys are missing Casual's point about that. He's not suggesting that a bodypart can be trained hard 3x/wk. for long periods. To be sure, not nearly as long as one could train that bodypart just once a week.

But is it possible to do that and to grow faster for short periods? Yes. And that would be ideal if you meet a certain no. of circumstances (very low volume particularly). But you don't do it long-term, at least with any routine I've ever heard of (DC, HST).

 

[guldukat]

I hit each body part once a week, I train with intensity and with a fair amount of volume. If you were to train the way I do, except hit each body part 2x or 3x a week you would be overtraining. It's easy for someone who trains like a pussy to hit each bodypart 3x a week because there workouts are so pathetic it takes them no time at all to recover.

Im guessing your the latter casualbb.

Don't be a hater bro!

Casual never said he did a fair amount of volume for each bodypart that many times per week, or that he's training at his maximum throughout, for that matter. You're not addressing his argument, just attacking his person.

 

[casualbb]

Thanks for coming to my defense, guldukat.

It's easy for someone who trains like a pussy to hit each bodypart 3x a week because there workouts are so pathetic it takes them no time at all to recover.

Im guessing your the latter casualbb.

Neglecting the insult, this actually brings up an interesting point. Apparently if someone trains with low volume and/or intensity, they're a "pussy." I think one of the main reasons this whole "intensity" myth persists is because it makes guys feel macho.

That's true, though I see it more as a long series of sprints followed by walking real slow

I like that analogy it's very dual-factor, which the more I learn about the more I agree with.

-casual

 

[BlkWS6]

Casual I have a question for you and don't take this as a flame. Do you (or under the guidelines of your program) believe that strength gains don't equate to gains in size? If you answer yes to this then you can just skip the rest Im about to write.......

Well I was looking at your PR's (congrats by the way) but Im a little confused. I like to think that a gain in strength will most likely lead some gains in size. Now you claim that the program you do is a very fast way to gain size, yet I saw that it took you 6 weeks to move up 10lbs on your SLDL. What is the deal with that? Im not trying to start a pissing contest by any means, but on the 5x5(point here is only that the 5x5 calls for training the muscle 1x a week just using it as an example) 10lb weight increases are made within two weeks. Like I said if you think there is no correlation between getting stronger and getting bigger then none of this makes sense, but if you do think a correlation does exist, don't you think that the approach you are taking is in fact NOT the fastest way to growth if it entails making a 10lb jump in 6weeks. Perhaps you have other variables going into that weight progression that Im not aware of, but it just seems that is an awfully long time to make the 10lb jump.

 

[RusPA81]

In 5X5 you make a 10 pound gain in lifts from a minimal wieght in 2 weeks...

The technique itself says to start very low so ofcourse you will go up 10 pounds and still eb under your previous max. DC has you going up 10+ pounds on lifts ABOVE your previous max.

But it doesnt have you start at a low weight. I started the 5x5 at 295 which was the heaviest I could do and made it up to 350 in 3 months with very little stalling.

 

[NEWcb38ac]

In 5X5 you make a 10 pound gain in lifts from a minimal wieght in 2 weeks...

The technique itself says to start very low so ofcourse you will go up 10 pounds and still eb under your previous max. DC has you going up 10+ pounds on lifts ABOVE your previous max.

 

[BlkWS6]

DC DEFINITELY requires an initial drop in weight similiar to a 5x5. If you are repping out 315lbs on bench and not following a more strict negative like DC calls for (I know I know he just says controlled now and not 4-6sec) you for sure are going to drop your weight. I did do DC training for a little while, and I had to drop my initial weights so it is no different then the 5x5 in that nature.


And like Ruspa said you dont have to drop to a considerably lower weight on the 5x5 to start. You just have to make sure you pick a weight that you can get all 5x5 for.

 

[casualbb]

No, I don't believe strength = size and I also expect to add another 10 pounds tomorrow to make it 20 total.

The army analogy has been made a bunch of times.

The sheer amount of muscle one has is the size of their "army." Strength training in essence makes your "army" capable of fielding more men. So say your army is 800 men strong, but can only field 200 at once. Strength training could raise that to 300 or even 400, all without size gains. Or similarly, one could train to increase the army's size without increasing the number of men it can field. All programs do both to varying degrees.

As to my PR's (thanks btw), for like 2/3 of my exercises I made PR's by about 5-10% of the total weight. Looked at that way, even for a program that has zero focus on strength that's not bad.

-casual

 

[BlkWS6]

Originally posted by casualbb
No, I don't believe strength = size and I also expect to add another 10 pounds tomorrow to make it 20 total.

The army analogy has been made a bunch of times.

The sheer amount of muscle one has is the size of their "army." Strength training in essence makes your "army" capable of fielding more men. So say your army is 800 men strong, but can only field 200 at once. Strength training could raise that to 300 or even 400, all without size gains. Or similarly, one could train to increase the army's size without increasing the number of men it can field. All programs do both to varying degrees.

As to my PR's (thanks btw), for like 2/3 of my exercises I made PR's by about 5-10% of the total weight. Looked at that way, even for a program that has zero focus on strength that's not bad.

-casual

Right on man, that is what I wanted to know. I think I often confuse your program with what I know of DC training. And if my memory serves me right, DC often vouches for the strength = size debate.

 

[nanotitan]

Hmm... "Making guys feel macho"... That is very interesting. Might those be the kind of guys that, say, put pictures of guns in their avatars to look macho as well?

To all of you training your body parts once a week:

If it is working, great, that's what it's all about. If you want your training to work even better, please try giving this some thought. By now, you have learned from experience that because of the way you workout you need a week to recover. Nobody need question that. Now, have you researched what causes you to require this 7 day recovery period? And, are you sure you need to train the way you do to produce gains?

If you could pinpoint what is it that creates the need for a 7 day recovery period and eliminate it from your training while still leaving elements that increase muscle and strength, what would you be left with?

You would be left with a training program that increases muscle and strength while allowing you to train a muscle possibly 2-3 times a week.

Now, taking into consideration that you would have changed your workout, what would you have to consider in order to choose between 1xweek and 2-3xweek training? Well, net results, of course.

Let's say you are able to increase your squat weight by 4-6 pounds every week with one of your regular 1xweek workouts. Now, let's say that with your modified 'improved-recovery-time' workouts you only able to add 2-3 pounds to your squat each session. That would be bad until you consider that you can now squat 3xweek. This means that in that 7 day period you have added 6-9 pounds to your squat. Much better.

Does it work as mechanically as that? No.

How will you know how much you can gain from a "modified 'improved-recovery-time' workout" versus your regular 1xweek workout? By trying it. And HST seems like a good place to start.

You say you've tried training 2xweek and you burned out?

My opinion? You didn't eliminate the factors that caused you to require a 7 day recovery period in the first place. I believe training to failure and too much volume per session resulting in excessive accumulation of fatigue to be the prime suspects for this.

Bottom line, I don't claim to be an expert on anything but I honestly believe that you too can grow 2-3 times a week if you tweak your training towards it.

BTW, I train WSB. That means, among other things, training muscles 2xweek (though working on finding a way to effectively train them 3xweek). Added 120lbs. to my deadlift in 6 months. That is all.

 

[RusPA81]

Good post. It's nice when people have an open mind.

 

[casualbb]

I agree, good post. You said it way better than I could.

-casual

 

[Lord_Suston]

All right everyone the name calling can stop, this is a debate not a war...

Casual you make some good points...

I just can't train that much since I focus on compounds that I don;t like compromising my form cause other secondary muscles are weak....I just find many groups overlap in a week

if you cycle intensity then I could see where it might work but I don't like going throught the motions when I can go balls to the wall.

I am not after size alone either, I post my lifts they are not based for size. I want strength and speed

 

[Aussie Juga naught]

Hmm... "Making guys feel macho"... That is very interesting. Might those be the kind of guys that, say, put pictures of guns in their avatars to look macho as well?

You're kind of making me ashamed of being 1/2 Aussie. Anyway, to address your [ignorant] points:

But I guess I'll be the "pussy" who is growing 3 times faster than you.

nanotitan and Debaser Whats your stats, and can you back them up with pics..... I guess they will tell who is training like a pussy or not.

 

[kentucky]

so this could be settled by saying, different strokes for different folks?

another que.


For those who work body parts twice a week, how long are you in the gym/each day? The way these workouts are going for me, I work for about 1 hour at most, and I'm so fatigued, my muscles feel like jello. I couldn't imagine trying to keep going or trying later that day. AND actually feel like I had a good workout....

help me understand...

 

[Debaser]

nanotitan and Debaser Whats your stats, and can you back them up with pics..... I guess they will tell who is training like a pussy or not.

I have no pics, but would it matter? You have to start somewhere. I started training a year ago at 170 lbs with 14-15% bodyfat (6' 1/2"). Right now I'm about 205 at 10%. I haven't always had the time/drive to eat or train all out during the entire year either, if I did I would probably be at 220.

 

[T-Rage]

For those who work body parts twice a week, how long are you in the gym/each day? The way these workouts are going for me, I work for about 1 hour at most, and I'm so fatigued, my muscles feel like jello. I couldn't imagine trying to keep going or trying later that day. AND actually feel like I had a good workout....help me understand...

You just have to start out slowly and build up to full intensity.

For example when I was 19 (I'm 32 now) I worked as a welder with some tough ass mother f'rs. We built giant 18 wheeler steel trash containers from the ground up. The first two weeks of carrying around heavy ass steel I-beams, oxygen tanks weighing 100's of pounds, and all kinds of other crap practically killed me. But in time my body began do deal with 8 hours of physical exertion everyday.

The same thing goes for construction workers. Are their forearms overtrained or are they strong as shit? My guess is they are strong as shit.

The body will adapt but you have to give it a chance. Most people probably try going balls to walls 2x a week and get burnt out quickly and say it doesn't work for them.

I started out doing 2 easy work sets per muscle group intiallly. Then every week I increase the intensity and add additional movements. I will continue this until I'm doing everything I need to do.

 

[collegiateLifter]

-Casual

in response to

Casual I have a question for you and don't take this as a flame. Do you (or under the guidelines of your program) believe that strength gains don't equate to gains in size? If you answer yes to this then you can just skip the rest Im about to write.......

you said

No, I don't believe strength = size and I also expect to add another 10 pounds tomorrow to make it 20 total.


-casual

I would carefully reconsider how exactly you figure to gain the most amount of size, as i have in recent months. I don't want to get into a full on debate, but gaining large amounts of strength is a neccessity in gaining significant size, as a rule. I would suggest you reconsider too. In general strength gains can either directly reflect size gains, or facilitate future size gains. As John McCallum said, "you can't expect a build like Grimek if you're handling weights your grandmother could lift."

 

[casualbb]

Dude...I agree that the two are correlated, and one seems to reliably accompany the other. I know I'm weak but what I currently lift represents a pretty big increase from what I was doing initially.

-casual

 

[NEWcb38ac]

Stregth and size dont HAVE to go togethr... Right now I am stronger than I was 8 weeks ago but MUCH weaker than I was a year agou when I was 15 pounds lighter at a higher bodyfat...

I may be the ecception and not the rule but for me I can getbigger an be getting weaker... I've neevr been very strong in upper body lits and right now at my biggest I am not my strongest

 

[Baoh]

All right everyone the name calling can stop, this is a debate not a war...

Casual you make some good points...

I just can't train that much since I focus on compounds that I don;t like compromising my form cause other secondary muscles are weak....I just find many groups overlap in a week

if you cycle intensity then I could see where it might work but I don't like going throught the motions when I can go balls to the wall.

I am not after size alone either, I post my lifts they are not based for size. I want strength and speed

Overlap issue: It can have an impact, but not so much if you are not maxing out every session.

Balls to the wall issue: "I don't like going through the motions when I can go balls to the wall."- you That's simply a preference, not a requirement. What you don't "like" doesn't mean it would not be best for you. If you say you find it to produce best for you, that is BECAUSE you enjoy going balls to the wall, so you'll naturally be more motivated to achieve progress under such a system. Still, unnecessary.






To all- The ad hominem arguments just make some of you guys seem too stupid to follow the valid argument that was going on. Congrats to those who avoided using them.

 

[frayedends]

I agree with you T-rage. I used to train 2x a week and I was getting pretty good gains. Since my whole program was based from a guy who took roids (Arnold), and I don't take 'em, my body slowly got used to training like that clean. Still, I have my doubts that training a bodypart 2x a week is good for the CNS so just a couple days ago I decided to try DC. Also, how do you know if your overtraining if you don't experience any of the symptoms like loss of sleep, appetite, and gains? If you don't have those symptoms does that mean you're clear or you still could be working yourself too hard?

 

[RusPA81]

I agree with you T-rage. I used to train 2x a week and I was getting pretty good gains. Since my whole program was based from a guy who took roids (Arnold), and I don't take 'em, my body slowly got used to training like that clean. Still, I have my doubts that training a bodypart 2x a week is good for the CNS so just a couple days ago I decided to try DC. Also, how do you know if your overtraining if you don't experience any of the symptoms like loss of sleep, appetite, and gains? If you don't have those symptoms does that mean you're clear or you still could be working yourself too hard?

Just watch your body. After you have been training for a while you should be able to tell when your body is having trouble recovering. Learn to catch overtraining in its early stages. If you start irritable and getting colds all the time could be signs that you are overtraining. After overtraining a few times I have been able to pinpoint the early warning signs. Its really about knowing your body.