So Why Come Off Steroids At All? Reaction to 2Thick's Post

[Horny]

100mg per week of test would be much much better in the long run. Simply up the dosages on cycle a little higher if you want more results.

 

[Stew Meat]

Ok here is what I'm doing........since I'm 33 and my natural testosterone production has dropped big time I decided to stay on constantly with Test. I'm shooting for 200mgs a week of Ethanate or Cypoinate. The only time I will raise that is if I'm cutting with T3. My cycles will be anabolics. Like IP Winny and Deca, another with Primo and Masteron, I have some DBOL here that I may use in conjunction with Fina and Arimidex. Basically take the DBol in one shot before my workout. My goal is to stay away from the harsh androgens and big gains. I have a problem with bodyfat and High blood pressure. Right now my blood pressure is excellant even though I'm on low test,Parabolin,Clen,T3 and Yohimbe. That kinda amazes me. Really even though I'm on all the I feel I'm putting alot less stress on it than someone who does harsh androgens. I've found that the rapid weight gain from regular cycles is very hard on my body plus its impossible for me to keep the gains. My body explodes on cycles-30lbs easy in only like 5-6 weeks and that's just Test/Deca in low doseages(750 week/600 week). Will I die??? eventually everyone does. I don't care about my HTPA axis I have enough kids. If I put on 10lbs a year gradually I think this will be alot safer and healthier. I could be wrong but I'm gonna do this for a year and see what happens. BTW the only reason I'm doing Dbol at all is that I have some laying around here-it will be a one time thing. All other cyles will be anabolics.

I'm sure you'll eventually regret this decision. Keeping high levels of androgens (above baseline) can have dire consequences. Your body may take years to recouperate after you finally decide to quit injecting yourself as your body has become soley dependent on exogenous hormone.







-Stew

 

[talonracer]

100mg per week of test would be much much better in the long run. Simply up the dosages on cycle a little higher if you want more results.

Well since I'm gonna use underdosed Tornel T-200 I should be close to that anyway.........no?? Besides I'd like to use it as birth control and the study said you needed 200mgs a week for that.

200 mgs is nothing........heck I think 100mgs would be no better than my natural production. 200mgs is hardly a 'high androgen level" shit most guys would laugh at the tiny bit.

 

[Horny]

no 100mg/week of a testosterone ester is probably higher than your natural production, especially if you are going ot be cycling high dosages of aas. 100mg/week will put you up at the high end of the normal range. It all depends on how fast your liver metabolizes the stuff. This is why it is best to get blood levels checked because there is variability between individuals in what blood levels a given dose will produce. Certaintly 200mg/week will give you supraphysiological levels which isn't the best thing for being on year round for many years, especially if you are cycling higher dosages and other aas on top of it. However, 200mg might not be that bad compared to 100mg. I don't know. I think alot of HIV patients do it at arouind that dosage, maybea alittle higher.

One problem with 200mg/week is that you can develope a very high hematocit if you are on it for a long time. You will develope a condition known as polycythemia ( I beleive that this is the correct spelling). You will have to much red blood cells and it will cause sluggish blood, elevated blood pressure, and hardening of the artery walls. Even 100mg/week has been shown to do this in rare cases. You can take other drugs for this or maybea give blood or have the whole thing monitored and see if it is happening or not.

One other problem I see with 200mg/week is all the extra estrogen it will generate. You will have estrogen levels that are too high for a man to have. It will make it harder to get lean unless you have a very aggressive cardio and diet plan in place. You will also put on very unsightly fat in your hips and legs, the female fat distribution thing doesn't look good on guys. You can't solve this problem by being on antiestrogeens all the time because this will cause bad cholesteol problems. I don't much care for hte feeling youget on antiestrogens anyways.

As for the birth control, 100mg won't be 100 percent effective but it would be more effective than being on nothing most probably. The birth control effect from 200mg comes mostly from elevated estradiol levels. Its a trade off effect, birth control in exchange for above normal levels of estrogen. I personally really wouldn't want all that extra estrogen over time even if it did have a birth control effect that I was desiring.

If you are interested though, the world health organization conducted male birth control studies with 200mg/week of testosterone for 12 months in healthy volunteers. They concluded it was around 97.5 percent effective and it was safe for periods of 12 months and under (they didn't investigate it for longer). I don't have the study readily available but I am sure you can find it pretty easily.

I am on 100mg/week testosterone + primo/winstrol cycles and getting everything I need.

 

[talonracer]

Ok aren't the elevated estrogen levels mostly dependant on the individual?? I say this since I was on a gram of Ara-Test a week and no gyno and very little water retention. I imagine at 200mg a week it will be minimal.
What you are saying makes alot of sense, however I just started and I want to at least try. If it becomes impossible for me to get lean I'll back off the doses.
One last thing you said it would not be good if I was "cycling large doses of AAS".........well the point in a WON'T be cycling large doses of AAS!!! My cycles will be small doses of Anabolics.......like 50mg Winny/day-400mg Deca a week............or 400mg primo week + 50mg Winny/day............ those aren't high doses my goal isn't big gains.......its steady gains that more closely resemble natural gains.
Still you know your stuff........I take it you are on continously??
Oh and like I said T200 is underdosed so most likely I won't be getting 200mg/week anyway.

 

[NYStrip]

Ok, this thread is saved. Please continue arguing; too much interesting info.

 

[Horny]

Ok aren't the elevated estrogen levels mostly dependant on the individual?? I say this since I was on a gram of Ara-Test a week and no gyno and very little water retention. I imagine at 200mg a week it will be minimal.
What you are saying makes alot of sense, however I just started and I want to at least try. If it becomes impossible for me to get lean I'll back off the doses.
One last thing you said it would not be good if I was "cycling large doses of AAS".........well the point in a WON'T be cycling large doses of AAS!!! My cycles will be small doses of Anabolics.......like 50mg Winny/day-400mg Deca a week............or 400mg primo week + 50mg Winny/day............ those aren't high doses my goal isn't big gains.......its steady gains that more closely resemble natural gains.
Still you know your stuff........I take it you are on continously??
Oh and like I said T200 is underdosed so most likely I won't be getting 200mg/week anyway.

The fact that you didn't get any gyno on a gram of test doesn't mean that you didn't have high estrogen levels while on that dosage. You can have very high estrogen levels and still not get gyno. Gyno is mostly dependent upon DHT/estradiol ratio. However, other problems caused by estrogen, like fat in the lower body, in the lower arms, and overall subcutaneous fat, in my experience, is more dependant upon simply having high estrogen levels. Estradiol production is an individual thing but anything over normal range will most probably give you alot anyways. I personally wouldn't want my estradiol levels over 30 pg/ml even though normal range is 10-60 pg/ml. With 200/week I would assume you would get something like 70-100 pg/ml estradiol in the blood. This is a women level of these hormones. Women have estradiol levels similar to this during the part of their cycle when they are not ovulating (it is higher when they ovulate). That says alot.

The other thing about estrogen is that if you are unusual and you find that you don't get high levels of estradiol with 200mg/week it will be hard on your cholesterol levels. Lots of androgens in the absence of a certain amount of estradiol will make hdl go way up and ldl go way down.

Also if you are going to go through with this and be on all the time, I would seriously consider getting a reliable source of high grade pharmaceutical testosterone enanthate like delatestryl. I certaintly wouldn't use t200 year round.

Also, if I were you I would find a precise dosage that works to maintain the blood levels of test and estradiol that you want and consitently adminsiter that to myself weekly when ever I was "off".

I use 100mg/week of test enanthate whenever I am off and cycle primo/winstrol cycles and occasionaly something alittle more potent. I have only been doing this for about 18 months so I don't know everything but I know a good deal about it. I work with a doctor on it though, he is a genuine expert on the subject, most of my knowledge comes from him.

All in all I think you are right on to use low dosage test year round (low dosages when it comes to bodybuilders understanding of the subject), never really use high dosages of test and cycle medium dosages of anabolics and nonaromatising steroids. 200mg/week of the test is to high in my opinion but it could work, at least for 3 months to a year. Just make sure you get some blood work. Remember, 200mg/ est per week is 4-2 times higher than any normal male would produce that was not using anything.

 

[Horny]

One oither thing is that guuys are asking me, why use 100mg test/week to bridge, you could easily make that on your own if you just did short cycles and hit the clomid. THis is not true.

For my body, 100mg/week gets my blood as high as maybea 90 percent of what guys would make naturally. This extra testosterone dragged out over a long period of time has tremendous effects. I am tinkering with maybea putting up the dosage to 120mg/week and getting the levels to be 800-1100 which will put me in like the top 1 percentile. However, the extra estradiol I don't really want so I might just stay where I am at. The bottom line is that if you are using steroids it is hard to have hig normal testosterone levels while you are off unless you have been off for a very long period of time. Bridging between cycles with high nomalr levels of testosterone makes the best sense. Your high already and then you can blast offand be assured that you wont crash on the way donw. What this all equals is amazing results.

Also, even if I am having a really stressful week, my testosterone levels will still be there and my muscles will too(no to mention all the other good benefits), where as most normal guys will have serious drop in their t levels and a high spike in cortisol that will eliminat weeks of work in a couple of days. I always had to worry about this before I started, I would have a bad week or two and get set back like 2 months in the gym. Now that never happens, I can treat myself like a piece of shit and the body doens't suffer.

Also, I never have to deal with those extremely catabolic weeks when you are using clomid or other antiestrogens to get your natural test levels back up. I just go righrt into injecting 100mg/juice per week. I put the levels up high, keep em high, blast them to the moon then bring them down to high again.

 

[Perry]

For Talonracer-
if your test is low, although its individual an you really need to get the bloodwork, heres some general stuff:
100mg a wk. of cyp should yield a level of aprox. 800ng/dl
200mg would give 1200ng/dl
since 1500+ is high, either ones in tolerance, but once you start its probably forever, so make sure your low levels are real an permenant. I'm gonna try an attach a chart,,,,good luck

 

[Perry]

Sorry, heres the important one