So Why Come Off Steroids At All? Reaction to 2Thick's Post

[Big Johnson]

Sorry, I don't have much of any respect for the pro bodybuilders nowadays. They are not much different from drug addicts in my opinion.

I'D LIKE TO SEE YOU SAY THAT TO RONNIE COLEMAN'S FACE, BRO.

 

[MadCow1]

My experience (no science to back it up just been paying attention) is that the guys who stay on for long periods lose their gains. I'm not talking about an 8 week hiatus and then juicing again. I'm speaking about 1 year off all juice.

I think the guy who does 4-8 weeks a moderate dosages will keep a higher percentage of his gains than the guy who juices for 32-40+ weeks. You bring these guys off with clomid or whatever and give then 1-3 years of normal life. The long doser probably put on a ton more weight but will have huge problems keeping it. This is why they stay on all the time - they don't like to shrink and find that their gains quickly disapate.

 

[Horny]

I see Horny is going off again about something he doesn't know anything about. Yes you can stay on AS for months and even years at a time and not cause any permanent damage. I would recommend however that, like the pros, you have a doctor monitor your blood work to make sure nothing is abnormal. Staying on year round on your own is not a good idea at all. In 7 weeks I will have been on for a year. I get regular blood tests that my doctor goes over every 3 months and I get an echostress every 6 months by a cardiologist. My doctor and I have discussed many times the fact that I will be on a permanent cycle, for lack of a better term, and we both agree there is no problem with doing this.

Ulter, I think what you do is fine. I don't think you are a piece of trash or an idiot. If you weren't seeing a doctor I would think otherwise. All the pros that do year round heavy dosages see doctors and probaably get blood presure drugs, blood thinners, and cholesterol lowering drugs now and then. If you never do bridging cycles I think that that is a very extreme thing to do but I don't know everything about every person's experience and I am sure that some people doing it are good people. HOwever, I am also sure that most who do it are not doing what is in their best interest.

My post was mainly meant to get the point across to haywood who has no experience with actually taking steroids that you can not just go on year round and act like its not that big of a deal and the thing to worry about is your testicles shrinking. Also, I wanted to get the point across that going on year round high dosages is something people do that goes way beyond just trying to look "good" for women.

 

[Horny]

I'D LIKE TO SEE YOU SAY THAT TO RONNIE COLEMAN'S FACE, BRO.

Being scared of someone beating your ass does not equate with having respect for someone.

 

[Stew Meat]

1. As I understand it from 2Thick's recent post, AR receptors don't down-regulate. You just need more AAS in your system as you gain lean muscle mass.
2. After a few weeks on readily-aromatizing steroids (test, d-bol, etc.), endogenous testosterone production is going to essentially cease. So you're going to end up with the same endogenous test levels (i.e., 0) after 8 weeks of juicing as you would after 8 months or 8 years.

So to reach your fitness goals faster, wouldn't it be a good idea to stay on steroids continuously, very slowly increasing your dosage as you get bigger? Then, when you feel that you're big enough, you can do a nice cycle of clomid and be done with gear. (Resuming steroid use if you ever get small again).

If my reasoning is sound here, I've got more questions, but I'm thinking of starting steroids in a few weeks and just not coming off until I have a damn good reason to. I know there are a few advocates of long cycles on this board, but most guys seem to recommend 8-10 weekers. Am I just way off base or what?

H

#1 you will eventually build up a tolerance as the body tries to regulate itself. Your body does not want to have high levels; it wants to have the levels that it was designed to have. Thus, the liver becomes more effecient at metabolising (destroying) the exogenous hormone. Higher and higher dosses will be needed to get an anabolic response.

#2 the longer you supress HPTA, the longer it will take for your natural system to bounce back.


-Stew

 

[Horny]

Your body does not want to have high levels; it wants to have the levels that it was designed to have.

-Stew

I do not believe the body was designed for anything. It depends on what your view points are, if you believe in creationism or evolution.

 

[Bossman]

I'm suprised that no one here has looked at the other possibilities from long term use. How about the effects on your liver and kidneys, not to mention your heart with the increase in blood pressure. These are the biggest reasons you should not stay on for long periods.

 

[cockdezl]

"I do not believe the body was designed for anything. It depends on what your view points are, if you believe in creationism or evolution."

Whether there is a 'design' or not, STEW is correct. Just as chronic use of adrenergics leads to a reduction in certain responses (decrease in receptors, receptor inhibition, decrease in signalling factors, etc.), chronic use of high levels of androgens would lead to a "tolerance" effect. Simply because studies show that the AR does not down-regulate (in some tissues it does), does not mean that you will get the same level of response over time.

This is not a question of theology vs. evolution, but simply a concept of physiology.

 

[Horny]

I'm suprised that no one here has looked at the other possibilities from long term use. How about the effects on your liver and kidneys, not to mention your heart with the increase in blood pressure. These are the biggest reasons you should not stay on for long periods.

We have been discussing this. Risk to cardio vascular health are great when stayting on steroids for long periods of time.

 

[talonracer]

Ok here is what I'm doing........since I'm 33 and my natural testosterone production has dropped big time I decided to stay on constantly with Test. I'm shooting for 200mgs a week of Ethanate or Cypoinate. The only time I will raise that is if I'm cutting with T3. My cycles will be anabolics. Like IP Winny and Deca, another with Primo and Masteron, I have some DBOL here that I may use in conjunction with Fina and Arimidex. Basically take the DBol in one shot before my workout. My goal is to stay away from the harsh androgens and big gains. I have a problem with bodyfat and High blood pressure. Right now my blood pressure is excellant even though I'm on low test,Parabolin,Clen,T3 and Yohimbe. That kinda amazes me. Really even though I'm on all the I feel I'm putting alot less stress on it than someone who does harsh androgens. I've found that the rapid weight gain from regular cycles is very hard on my body plus its impossible for me to keep the gains. My body explodes on cycles-30lbs easy in only like 5-6 weeks and that's just Test/Deca in low doseages(750 week/600 week). Will I die??? eventually everyone does. I don't care about my HTPA axis I have enough kids. If I put on 10lbs a year gradually I think this will be alot safer and healthier. I could be wrong but I'm gonna do this for a year and see what happens. BTW the only reason I'm doing Dbol at all is that I have some laying around here-it will be a one time thing. All other cyles will be anabolics.