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So is the NSA security leaker a hero, villian or both?
- Thread starter mrplunkey
- Start date
He shared confidential information, broke a code of conduct, deliberated deceitful and spy-like actions against his government and employer...his head may have been in the right place, but there are avenues to be taken to reveal things like this to the public...
redsamurai
Banned
I'm waiting to see what else he comes out with. If he was telling the truth when he said him and the people like him could tap the president if he only "just felt like it"...then I believe more is going to come out which both him and the journalist have hinted at. If anyone noticed Obama sort of had a look on his face this week of a man who's had a new reality put on him, that he ain't as powerful as he thought he was. They told him to go out and defend the program and he smartly saluted with a yessir. This leaker seems to be hinting at that whats going on in reality is even above the POTUS's pay grade, and yes I'd like to hear about that shit don't know bout the rest of yous.
This is news to you guys? That big brother is watching? I don't get how this is a big revelation
He's a hero. Plain and simple. Maybe some of you prefer losing your freedom and beig lied to about how your tax dollars are spent or being watched at everything you do... But not this guy. I didn't fight for a nazi dictatorship. I fought for freedom (or at least I thought I did). This country is fubar. Blow those whistles loud and clear "whistle blowers" blow them like the sheeple blow Obama's dick. He's a tool and I mean that literally.
redsamurai
Banned
If he is releasing information as to the corruption and lies of our govt, how is he anything but? I don't how many of you cared to look at it but some of that wiki leaks stuff that Assange released was incredibly eye opening as to how our military and corporations do business abroad. There's a difference between outing our spies and outing corrupt ways and means of our govt. One is treasonous and the other is patriotic.
I think the word hero is thrown around loosely quite a bit...technically, the information he released might jeopardize the safety of his country...apparently only 4 slides out of the original 13 (if I recall the number correctly) were released...they said the rest of the slides could make the US vulnerable...not sure what the total story is.
Okay yeah "hero" is too strong, but definitely more hero than villain or criminal.
Hey, HEY!!! Patriot is a BAD word now... Watch your mouth! That's how fucked up this country is right now. Patriot is now literally synonymous with terrorist.
where do you draw the line though? How many people feel like they can break the law and do wtf they want as an act of heroism?
This can get ugly quick if they decide not to prosecute him because he's a "hero of the people."
Can you imagine how many people will walk in his footsteps and decide to get their shot at being a hero?
This can get ugly quick if they decide not to prosecute him because he's a "hero of the people."
Can you imagine how many people will walk in his footsteps and decide to get their shot at being a hero?
redsamurai
Banned
exactly. If he outs corruption in the govt, hero. If he's outing the way the U.S handles incoming threats the way they're supposed....then yeah Leavenworth it is. If the politicians are telling the truth that the govt is only tracking numbers called and goes through the proper accountability channels when they think they have something, than this collection scheme is ok. If they have backdoors into every server and just tap any email they please with merely a sniff of something, than we need to know about this.
redsamurai
Banned
c'mon no it's not, let's not get carried away.
PICK3
New member
I tried fucking with bitcoins and it sucked dick
I wish I had jumped in earlier and made some dough
I wish I had jumped in earlier and made some dough
PICK3
New member
*Irregardless
Yes because Bush creating the Dept of Homeland Security and signing the Patriot Act didn't cost us any freedom.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
mrplunkey
New member
True, but we've already established that Bush was a douche.
So wouldn't that mean someone who supersized his program is a super-douche?
Does the multiplicative property of equality apply?
if a=b
then a*c = b*c
redsamurai
Banned
I think what's becoming clear is that Bush didn't establish the program. He was just POTUS when they enacted it, so he get's the credit, or blame depending on who you're talking to. This leaker is pretty clear that peeps in his world can do fuck all they want and simply don't answer to the POTUS. It's looks like it's being confirmed here what tin foil hat peeps have been claiming for decades, that the POTUS doesn't really run anything. He's a figurehead like the queen of England. It's all been a nice big show for our amusement.
redsamurai
Banned
As soon as Bitcoins take hold, people will get dealt commerce clause suppositories. It's the "go-to" clause for any 'merican that has the gall to circumvent the Fed.
Hahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ababahahahhahahahah
machine23
New member
The people you refer 2 as "tin foil hat" are typically wide awake to what's going on in the world. You have some that are really crazy, but most are real journalist trying to get to tr truth. Obama and every president is just a another corporate pitchmen. Both parties are bought and paid for and many of you will say that you know but you guys will still have the same mindless convos. Arrest all of them. Nothing will truly change into that happens. He's a hero. Don't worry tho, they'll make him look like a terrorist. Maybe one of those "right wingers" that the left has been trying to push with everything.
redsamurai
Banned
oh I 100% agree. The "tinfoil" comment was for a particular poster here who likes to roll that word out when he sees fit. I have a working and active memory that goes back further than 2 years so all that stuff I heard growing up that people clowned on as being from the tinfoil hat wearing crowd....is now reality. So the stuff I hear today as being "tinfoil" worthy....I pay attention to cause a lot of it will eventually be born out as fact. There's a lot of stuff that has been painstakingly hidden from us. I'll bet in the early 80's people who said the U.S had a hand in the assassination of all those south American presidents, nut job whacko's wearing tinfoil hats.
Tin foil hat folks are usually indeed crazy.
Kinda torn on this issue. Debating the ethics and balance between privacy and security (which I dont fully buy) aside, from a legality standpoint it sounds as if Congress authorized this and thus it is law. Not many people are aware, but in the 80s when cell phones first began becoming relevant it was determined by the courts that, because the signal is bounced off of towers and not through an actual phone line (on your property), conversations on cell phones came with no reasonable expectation of privacy.
In the eyes of the law, the government tapping into your cell phone signal is no different than a Fed overhearing you talk at the next table in a restaurant. Perhaps that will change due to the public interest in this issue.
Kinda torn on this issue. Debating the ethics and balance between privacy and security (which I dont fully buy) aside, from a legality standpoint it sounds as if Congress authorized this and thus it is law. Not many people are aware, but in the 80s when cell phones first began becoming relevant it was determined by the courts that, because the signal is bounced off of towers and not through an actual phone line (on your property), conversations on cell phones came with no reasonable expectation of privacy.
In the eyes of the law, the government tapping into your cell phone signal is no different than a Fed overhearing you talk at the next table in a restaurant. Perhaps that will change due to the public interest in this issue.
billfred
New member
this
mrplunkey
New member
That's a really goofy ruling since laser microphones are illegal. You'd think electromagnetic signals bouncing off towers are no different than electromagnetic signals bouncing off glass surfaces of structures.
gjohnson5
New member
Even though I hate these surveillance programs more with a passion , I have to be real about this kid
Anne Arundel High school dropout
Anne Arundel community college dropout
US Army dropout
.
.
.
Security guard for University of Maryland
(massive leap)
CIA agent
How can anyone see this guy as a hero? The only reason he dropped the information because he has a clear history of being fickle breaking commitments. With such a checkered past , I have no idea how he was trusted with National Security secrets.
What would you call a person who often breaks personal and professional commitments?
The government has no idea how to vet a quality job candidate. And the fact that there are probably many more people with clearances who are fickle or quitters only speaks badly about the leadership out our country.
PICK3
New member
Cybercollege dipoloma ==> Printed!
gjohnson5
New member
Agree with this. The people need to take responsibility for who they put in office. Bill Clinton said this. In this case YOU voted for people who are in agreement with such programs and crafted these surveillance programs into law. We also voted for the politicians who put the supreme court judges in place.
I am going to start voting libertarian from now on and will only vote for candidates who have a wish to cut the purse strings from these government agencies involved in this stuff
ismaele00
New member
So what's the difference between the NSA and the Police tasks? The Judge permission. I'm unable of imagine a NSA member thinking: "oh, come on, let's check out what this citizen -I know from nothing- is sending to this other citizen".
This is the same that happens in Guantanamo. Yes we're breaking the law -and I'm a lawyer- but we're getting tons of info. So what if the NSA discover a terrorist plan that would kill your family? If the NSA by this way of investigating -absolutly illegal- would have been able of avoid the 9/11 tragedy? Or the 3/11 in Madrid? Or the 7/11 in London?
It's all about how many rights can be waived for safety?
This is the same that happens in Guantanamo. Yes we're breaking the law -and I'm a lawyer- but we're getting tons of info. So what if the NSA discover a terrorist plan that would kill your family? If the NSA by this way of investigating -absolutly illegal- would have been able of avoid the 9/11 tragedy? Or the 3/11 in Madrid? Or the 7/11 in London?
It's all about how many rights can be waived for safety?
Headholio
New member
The ACLU is suing the administration over the constitutionality of this survaillance.
NSA snooping triggers lawsuits - CNN.com
Plunkey, here's how you can show your support and help the ACLU financially:
https://www.aclu.org/secure/join-aclu?s_src=UNW130001C00
NSA snooping triggers lawsuits - CNN.com
Plunkey, here's how you can show your support and help the ACLU financially:
https://www.aclu.org/secure/join-aclu?s_src=UNW130001C00
mrplunkey
New member
We're on the same page!
I like libertarian positions -- even the so-called "liberal" ones. The only thing I disagree with is their timing.
For example, if we eliminated the marriage subsidy I'd be all for gay marriage immediately.
And if we took reasonable measures (which would never be foolproof) to make sure people choosing to use drugs weren't being supported by taxpayers, I'd be for legalizing every drug too.
And although I'm pro-choice, I still don't think taxpayers should be forced to pay for abortions (particularly third-term and partial-birth abortions). If public funds (federal funds, in particular) weren't used on abortions, I'm not even sure people should get to vote on it -- it should just be another legal activity.
redsamurai
Banned
To be fair, if theres one industry you can get ahead in without formal education is software engineering.
If memory serves, that CIA bish that found bin Laden didnt have a degree either.
PICK3
New member
PICK3
New member
Google surveillance far surpasses the NSA, author says - CBS News
- Google is monitoring the emails of almost 50 million Gmail users in America
- It's also recording everything you type on the Google search engine
- and, if you own a smartphone, Google is probably recording where you are
mrplunkey
New member
That's just wrong!
Headholio
New member
This.
Private corporate spying is way worse than what the government is doing.
And here's how much American's really care about privacy: If you can save 4 cents on your next can of green beans, you will sign up to receive a bar code that will track every single thing you purchase.
mrplunkey
New member
True.
But guess what? I can choose to not use Google.
How do you choose to not use the US government? Are you going to break out the line: "America! Love it or leave it!" ?
Headholio
New member
You can try to avoid google but the alternatives are no better. There are a thousand ways you can choose to live an anonymous life. And I have done it, back when I needed to. It's difficult and inconvenient, and I agree, it sucks. It doesn't matter if its private or public owned intrusion.
mrplunkey
New member
So Google knows how many times I typed "pole" into a search engine
I thought you used the ManButtSex search engine.
jnevin
New member
Slippery slope arguments are completely invalid.
jnevin
New member
Black Ops: 5%'er Socialist
redsamurai
Banned
So Google knows how many times I typed "pole" into a search engine
rest assured google knows your a useless cntfgt.
cheers.
mrplunkey
New member
Do you really not recognize the difference?
We have choices with private companies. State and local laws can touch them as well. They can be sued (they don't have sovereign immunity).
The government is supposedly constrained against unreasonable search and seizures. The fourth amendment is supposed to protect us from government overreach.
Headholio
New member
Yes we are protected from government over reach and unreasonable search and seisure. And that's a good thing.
On the other hand, we simply accept the fact that our privacy has been stolen by corporations and there is nothing we can do about it.
Applying for a job? Hand over those bodily fluids for analysis. No reasonable suspicion needed.
Using a computer at work? Every keystroke is logged.
And how convenient those debit cards are. Every single purchase logged. who needs cash!
Etc.
Where are the choices you talk about? The choice to not work? The choice to not own a cell phone? there are only 4 cell companies and they are all the same. The choice to not use a computer? Yeah, those are choices, but for the vast majority we just know that we are being watched, and overall people don't really seem to care that much.
So I am just pointing out the incongruency between people's actions and their so called concern with privacy. Add to that the inexplicable trust people have for the bank or the ISP that is monitoring your every move, vs the paranoia about the government. They all will fuck you.
lol @ this argument
we should just throw that little constitution out since we have to take a piss test to obtain a job.
You do have the choice not to own a cell phone. When I was in elementary school there were no cell phones or even answering machines. Somehow we all survived.
The truth is you've already made the choice when you purchase that cell phone, you just wish the situation was different.
And what difference would it make if collecting that data was illegal. Every member of EF should understand if something is possible AND beneficial to someone, (like AAS use) it will be done regardless of the law.
Headholio
New member
Way to miss the point hillbilly.
Privacy is important and getting taken away is bad, no matter who is doing it. I hope you can grasp that because I can't make it much simpler.
Lol @ HH being so stupid he can't see the difference in accepting the terms and conditions when willfully purchasing a service from a private corporation, and having the Federal fucking Government dip their dirty ass fingers into that private company's records to spy on civilians 'for the greater good'
For the record, it has worked so fucking well right? I mean I am glad they noticed the algorithms and patterns in their stolen records and stopped those Boston Marathon bomber guys before they hurt anyone....
For the record, it has worked so fucking well right? I mean I am glad they noticed the algorithms and patterns in their stolen records and stopped those Boston Marathon bomber guys before they hurt anyone....
billfred
New member
Here is my thoughts. When the Patriot Act came through, I thought this was a violation of our rights. I debated with people and they said, this is war, Government has to take war like actions.
Since then, they have probably broken up at least 4 terrorist acts. So now I am thinking, well maybe we lose some rights to gain some security. But where do they draw the line? That is the scary part.
As far as this snitch, what he did was a major violation of our security, illegal, and must be prosecuted.
Since then, they have probably broken up at least 4 terrorist acts. So now I am thinking, well maybe we lose some rights to gain some security. But where do they draw the line? That is the scary part.
As far as this snitch, what he did was a major violation of our security, illegal, and must be prosecuted.
you're so mad lol
I understand your point perfectly. it's just that you are using asinine examples to make a weak argument in favor of this being okay.
As a muslim living in north America I WANT the government to listen in...maybe that will let them realise who's going to blow shit up BEFORE they do it...eliminate innocent people getting hurt and NOT treat EVERY muslim as a possible suspect on airports and shiznit
On a serious note, I kinda agree with Billfred said above...maybe lose some freedom for greater security but where can you draw the line and how many times can "little" be amended to "more" based on the situation
On a serious note, I kinda agree with Billfred said above...maybe lose some freedom for greater security but where can you draw the line and how many times can "little" be amended to "more" based on the situation
Headholio
New member
No you don't get the point, and I'm not saying its ok.
It's not ok because the Patriot act isn't ok. It took away our rights with the excuse that it was to be used to catch terrorists, but has been used in dozens of ways against Americans who have nothing to do with terrorism.
The problem I think, is that any secret program is bound to be abused.
I'm not saying the government shouldn't have the ability to look for terrorism, but it needs to be done in a way that is transparent so that the limits are insured.
But my point about corporate privacy invasion, and everyone bending over and smilinng while they take it in the ass, is still valid.
I believe secrecy is essential for some things to work...if it was transparent, wouldn't the terrorists have access to it?
Traz, transparent doesn't mean accessible.
It's an intrusion on our rights as they were written in the constitution, doesn't matter how you govt jockeys try and twist it
All the 'what if' shit doesn't matter.
It's an intrusion on our rights as they were written in the constitution, doesn't matter how you govt jockeys try and twist it
All the 'what if' shit doesn't matter.
That's good to know. Because it sure sounded like you were saying that because we choose to use google, own a cell phone, and piss in a cup to get a job, that it's ok for the government to invade our privacy.
Now that we're mostly In agreement, is this where we draw the line In the exchange of freedom/privacy for security?
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redsamurai
Banned
Cellphones are almost required in the workplace, so much so that a lot of companies give you one that they expect you to use "strictly" for company purposes.
machine23
New member
That's the dumbest shit I've heard. So if congress passes a law where it's legal to kill blacks and Asians well than that ok since it's law, right?... Come on man. It doesn't make it right whether it's a law or not. Just like slavery wasn't right. Would you get mad if your next door neighbor put listening devices in your house? How about in your car? Why not live in a glasshouse where everyone can monitor each other so that everyone can see that we aren't doing anything illegal.
billfred
New member
Using your analogy, I think the point is, yes it is ok to kill a black or asian if you know that black or asian is about to kill 100k people for some personal reason.
You do understand there can be a difference between what is "right" and what is "legal," yes?
Congress creates and passes laws. Congress apparently authorized this. For someone who probably walks around screaming "Constitution!" all day (yet I'm sure knows nothing more about the founding fathers than they read on infowars.com) you should know this is how our system of government works.
mrplunkey
New member
Interesting argument.
People don't have the right to free speech on private property or even on a lot of public property (i.e. you can't curse-out a judge in court). So would there be a similar incongruency between that and the government simply eliminating the freedom of speech all together?
PICK3
New member
redsamurai
Banned
Holio is completely right about what corporations have done, are doing and will do in the future as it pertains to our privacy. What they do is almost worse except they don't, at least we thought, share that data with the govt who can put us in the land of pillow biters. What corporations have planned for the future is mind numbing and completely unsustainable. Siri is just the fucking beginning. Go watch the TED talks and see for yourself. They want this all encompassing internet which is a hair's breadth away from being sentient, they will require everyone to upload into this near sentient being everything about their lives so it knows you and can track you through the world. And what is the window into this all encompassing interconnected net? Your smartphones...what they have planned for those things is ludicrous. And who's going to watch over that system? You will not be able to fart in a closet without your smartphone chastising you for it the next time you pick it up. Over at TED they act like this is the grand future the human race has been waiting 10's of thousands of years for.
mrplunkey
New member
I'm pretty sure that's the plot to one of the terminator movies.
My bet is you just smoked a little too much pot in your mom's basement. Go outside and get some fresh air and you should be fine.
PICK3
New member
machine23
New member
Ummm.. No he's unfortunately right with some of the stuff. Google is at the head of this. Ray kurzweil talks how we will merge with machines in the future. Don't think it's far fetched. Like the NSA info has been known for more than a decade with people that follow alternative media. It's new to many ppl but with others it just confirmed.
Jesus Christ.
I bet you think we'll all get tracking chips implanted in us as well?
Someone has been watching too much Alex Jones
I bet you think we'll all get tracking chips implanted in us as well?
Someone has been watching too much Alex Jones
PICK3
New member
mrplunkey
New member
I'd check with RedScam(TM) first. He may want one up there as well, which means it wood be a terrible mistake.
redsamurai
Banned
Sorry mate but these are talks being given by top people in their respective fields. These talks are also being shown at and attended by the top business programs in the country. I personally don't like those people but do the math when they can charge $6,000 a ticket for some of those talks. What these people are saying there "is" infact where technology is headed there's no question about it. And they're the ones pushing it there.
redsamurai
Banned
yeah he's one of em for sure. Dude's ultimate goal in life is to use DNA from his dead father to bring him back to life and the two of them can live forever. I really can't extrapolate on that as I can't wrap my head around it, but it came out of his mouth verbatim soooo.....
Google seems to think very highly of him at least.
jnevin
New member
Citationings plz?
jnevin
New member
yeah he's one of em for sure. Dude's ultimate goal in life is to use DNA from his dead father to bring him back to life and the two of them can live forever. I really can't extrapolate on that as I can't wrap my head around it, but it came out of his mouth verbatim soooo.....
Google seems to think very highly of him at least.
waltdisneyoldnewswhat?
jnevin
New member
The irony of this conversation taking place on this website is hilarious.
Corporations owe us nothing. We agree to give them money for whatever service or good they provide, and they make note of it in the form of a receipt. That's a contract. You have no rights and there isn't anything promised to you other than what you asked for, what was delivered, and if you payed for it. Period. if a contract got fucked, you go to court, but if you agree to the TOS, you're bound. Your fault if you don't read it.
I personally think what the gov't is doing is a complete abuse of power and a disgrace. *God, I'm old* When I was a kid, this is what we heard horror stories about what commie russia did. People getting executed in basements over what was overheard on phone lines, etc. Better than average chance this guy is going to end up dead sooner than later, and I'm reasonably sure we'll do it. Shit, we have kids playing real life video games with drones.
Disclaimer*
I don't want my trannie porn to be found at the wrong time
Corporations owe us nothing. We agree to give them money for whatever service or good they provide, and they make note of it in the form of a receipt. That's a contract. You have no rights and there isn't anything promised to you other than what you asked for, what was delivered, and if you payed for it. Period. if a contract got fucked, you go to court, but if you agree to the TOS, you're bound. Your fault if you don't read it.
I personally think what the gov't is doing is a complete abuse of power and a disgrace. *God, I'm old* When I was a kid, this is what we heard horror stories about what commie russia did. People getting executed in basements over what was overheard on phone lines, etc. Better than average chance this guy is going to end up dead sooner than later, and I'm reasonably sure we'll do it. Shit, we have kids playing real life video games with drones.
Disclaimer*
I don't want my trannie porn to be found at the wrong time
mrplunkey
New member
mrplunkey
New member
With goofy paranoid like that, it helps me understand why you never leave your mom's basement.
My smartphone will overload based on the amount of farting I do.
redsamurai
Banned
The list of people who have spoken at TED is simply too long to post and most names are unrecognizeable and the ones that are would get lost in the muddle.
Here's a few you may or may not have heard of
Jeff Bezos
Richard Branson
Sergey Brin
Larry Page
Richard Dawkins
Bill Gates
Jane Goodall
Al Gore
Stephen Hawking
Ray Kurzweil
Craig Venter
I'm sure there's more names that people know my eyes just got tired scanning through the list. But you can see where this is going.
redsamurai
Banned
gjohnson5
New member
How do you do that?
OBL thought he was living anonymously in Pakistan and we found out how successful that was...
In this country, if you do so much as pay income tax , the IRS has your information. And if you own a home , your information is in public records already. If you have a telephone , the phone companies have our information. If you make any calls , then the government is being giving your call information. If you have a bank account then your information is in the Credit Bureaus. If you bounce a check or overdraft your account , then your in the chexsystem.
This is aside from the phyical things such as telephoto lenses. Just ask Kate Middleton if secluded beaches are truly secluded.... I personally think anyone who believes they are living anonymously is gullible and misinformed
redsamurai
Banned
Yeah except companies are getting caught doing things with your info that they didn't tell you about. Google, Facebook..just to name a few. And I'm sorry just because I bought your product or peruse your store doesn't mean I consent to having my face mapped so you can track me through the mall and see where else I go. Do websites tell you that the cookies they put on your PC is telling them where else you've been on the internet before and after you landed on their page? Cause that's what they do, right now. Websites now want to turn on your webcam so their facial recognition software can evaluate your level of enthusiasm as you're perusing their website. Right now most websites that do this give explicit warning of this otherwise they'd be in a lot of trouble...but the software to do this is freely available and you don't know shit unless they tell you they've turned it on and are looking at you. I agree, if you're aware of what they're asking and consent to it..it's on you. But if you trust these free market enterprises "not" to abuse that you're as gullible as the people that think the govt isn't abusing their software tools.
mrplunkey
New member
Scott Adams addressed this almost 20 years ago:
Yeah, that's how I view just about everything you write.
mrplunkey
New member
I'm saving the best parts for my TED talk.
redsamurai
Banned
baaaaaahzahahahahahahaombggfgahahahahahahahahahfuckmesidewayahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah..........bwaaaaaaaahahahahahahaolololoahahahahahahahahahalmaoahahaahahahahaha
redsamurai
Banned
Scott Adams addressed this almost 20 years ago:
Ahh ic, when you want to make the point about supposed "class warfare" these 1%'ers are fucking midas touch pool fillers. But as soon as you see fit these people, who are at the top of their field unlike you, they go give talks just to spread some misinfo. No one and I mean no one talks out of two assholes like you do. You may be the first person I've ever met with two working shitholes. You're up to your ear in it. Fucking biteme wasn't as full of shit as you are, and he was a hell of a lot more entertaining.
mrplunkey
New member
I don't think you like getting your bubble burst.
And if reaaaaaaally want to make it big, use red jello in your bedside vat. The green and orange flavors don't work quite as well.
redsamurai
Banned
They only ask people from the top of their respective fields. Time to "shake the list"....
TOP MEDICAL DEVICE MANUFACTURERS
1. Johnson and Johnson $17.7B
2. GE Healthcare $12.1B
3. Medtronic $10.1B
4. Baxter International $9.8B
4. Cardinal Health $9.8B
6. Tyco Healthcare $9.5B
7. Siemens Medical Solutions $9.2B
8. Philips Medical Systems $7.5B
9. Boston Scientific $6.3B
10. Stryker $4.9B
11. B. Braun $3.9B
12. Guidant Corp. $3.6B
13. 3M Healthcare $3.5B
14. Zimmer Holdings $3.3B
15. Becton, Dickinson & Co. $3B
16. St. Jude Medical $2.9B
17. Kodak Health Group $2.7B
18. Hospira $2.6B
19. Fresenius $2.5B
20. Smith & Nephew $2.4B
21. Synthes $2.1B
22. Alcon $2B
23. Biomet $1.9B
24. C. R. Bard $1.8B
24. Terumo $1.8B
26. Dentsply International $1.7B
27. Invacare $1.5B
28. Gambro $1.4B
29. Dräger Medical $1.3B
30. Varian Medical $1.2B
you on this list?
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