So i prayed last night

[gwl9dta4]

I was there in my living room flipping throught the channels and stopped at an show with a minister talking about God in some big international center in TX, anyway he was talking about how the bible and God tell you to not let your enemies take away you joy! How you should always be happy and look forward to the future no matter what because God is in you and will protect you like a shield, if you take him into you heart. The he did a prayer and asked that everyone in the audience repeat it, he also urged people to find God, but not to join a church if they do not want to, but rather to build a personal relationship with God and Jesus Christ. Now this made a lot of sence, so i said the little prayer with him in my living room and i had the wierdest warm tingly feeling all over and felt like all my cares and trubles were instantly greatly diminished.

No matter what the explanation, i am convinced that this was the greatest happy pill i ever took. it made me think of all those people suffereing from depression and emptiness in their life and how they could benefit from a PERSONAL relationship with GOD with no church involved. it certainly brightened up my day so far.

I should point out that i am a Catholic but have strayed from my religion in the past years, but as i live my life more i find that praying to God is more and more important in my life and enchances the quality of my life. And imagine, for years i thought religion was corny, LOL!

 

[scruples]

...i had the wierdest warm tingly feeling all over and felt like all my cares and trubles were instantly greatly diminished.

i get that shit when i finish taking a piss sometimes...

 

[alien amp pharm]

That's great news bro! It truly is an undescribable experience to accept Christ into your life.

The older I get the more I treasure that relationship. Especially with the way the world is nowadays. It could end for some or all of us tommorrow, who knows.

And for those who don't believe, what if you died tommorrow and the whole God/Jesus/Christianity thing turned out to be true? That's a situation I would not want to be in. A never ending torture of fire and brimstone.

Turn before you burn! (tee hee hee)

 

[Nathan]

Placebo effect.

 

[scruples]

And for those who don't believe, what if you died tommorrow and the whole God/Jesus/Christianity thing turned out to be true? That's a situation I would not want to be in. A never ending torture of fire and brimstone.

but what if you're wrong and it turned out that only atheists receive "salvation" or whatever you want to call it?? the chance is just as likely as christianity being true...

 

[scruples]

so maybe i'm actually hedging my bets by not subscribing to any particular religious beliefs...

 

[alien amp pharm]

but what if you're wrong and it turned out that only atheists receive "salvation" or whatever you want to call it?? the chance is just as likely as christianity being true...

Then define "salvation" from an Atheists view. (not neccessarily saying you are).

They don't believe in salvation. heck they have no beliefs as far as I know, about anything after this life.

Let's say for arguement sake that there is no after life, no Heaven, no Hell, etc.....
Then would it really matter to me? No. I'd just be dust rotting away in a grave somewhere, not having to worry with anything. No loss I suppose, other than living a happy peaceful life, which ain't so bad.

Now let's say the opposite, that there is all the stuff mentioned above. Then what? i know where I'd go. how about you? -Why take the risk? -What if you received a tip that someone was going to break into your house. Would you just sit there and take the chance, or would you go out and buy a gun to protect yourself and be safe?

 

[satanic goatslayer]

I once prayed to a plastic Satan action figure and got hit by an excavator bucket when I left the store.

Religion has departed from my brain now; never to return. Except for MC Hammer's song "Pray", which is a lot better than "Pumps and a Bump."

 

[Delinquent]

That's great news bro! It truly is an undescribable experience to accept Christ into your life.

The older I get the more I treasure that relationship. Especially with the way the world is nowadays. It could end for some or all of us tommorrow, who knows.

And for those who don't believe, what if you died tommorrow and the whole God/Jesus/Christianity thing turned out to be true? That's a situation I would not want to be in. A never ending torture of fire and brimstone.

Turn before you burn! (tee hee hee)

Please quote where your bible says anything about hellfire and damnation concerning hell

 

[alien amp pharm]

Please quote where your bible says anything about hellfire and damnation concerning hell

It'll be later on then. I'm at work now. I'll look it up when I get a chance because I can't remember verse numbers.

 

[Delinquent]

cool thanks

 

[gwl9dta4]

Alien amp pharm seems to be the only one that gets it. You do NOT have to be a Bile thumper or go to Church or feel and be corny to believe in God. I think those notions turn a lot of young people away from religion in general.

What if you were in the gym and you hard the likes of an in shape Arnold mentioning in a passing conversation that he is a minister or a priest? Would people like that make it more appealing? Look at it this way a personal relationship with God and Jesus Christ is very rewarding and WILL enhance your life. You have nothing to loose by trying it. God will love you either way and accept you when you are ready to come. His/her doors are always open.

 

[beefybull]

Now let's say that there is all the stuff mentioned above. Then what? i know where I'd go. how about you? -Why take the risk? -What if you received a tip that someone was going to break into your house. Would you just sit there and take the chance, or would you go out and buy a gun to protect yourself and be safe?

EXACTLY!

 

[scruples]

Let's say for arguement sake that there is no after life, no Heaven, no Hell, etc.....
Then would it really matter to me? No. I'd just be dust rotting away in a grave somewhere, not having to worry with anything. No loss I suppose, other than living a happy peaceful life, which ain't so bad.

Now let's say the opposite, that there is all the stuff mentioned above. Then what? i know where I'd go. how about you? -Why take the risk? -What if you received a tip that someone was going to break into your house. Would you just sit there and take the chance, or would you go out and buy a gun to protect yourself and be safe?

ok, for sake of argument, let's say that you are wrong and the "god" you end up meeting has decided to banish all chrisitians to their ideal of hell... would it still be worth it then??

 

[alien amp pharm]

gwl9dta4: I agree with you 100%. That's why so many turn away from accepting God/Jesus into their lives.

I was going to write a lot on that subject but you said it well.

-I sin. I get drunk occasionally, I smoke weed, I've lied, I watch porn sometimes, bottom line is I SIN.

I only go to church at times (like once every 3 weeks or so), but the main point is I ACCEPTED THE LORD AS MY SAVIOR and acknowledged that he died for my sins.

I repent of my sins and do try to change them. And everyone has continuing sins that are hard to quit doing. I have a few, just as other people do.

 

[alien amp pharm]

ok, for sake of argument, let's say that you are wrong and the "god" you end up meeting has decided to banish all chrisitians to their ideal of hell... would it still be worth it then??

LOL, then I suppose I'd be a crisp MF'er!

If that was the case then not only am I wrong, but the bible and everything related to it would be false too.

I wasn't always a Christian, but since I've became one I have had too many (personal) experiences that TO ME prove that God/Jesus/HS is real.
If it wasn't ,and I was praying to a false God, then I wouldn't have been blessed so much.

 

[scruples]

christianity seems very selfish to me too... people follow it because it's convenient (you don't dedicate much going to church once a month or so -- but i know many people go more often than that) and moreover because it offers THEM something... i seriously doubt that people would follow chrisitianity if they felt they had nothing to gain from it... also, christians offer no benefit to society per se by being christian, they are only trying to save their own neck... but hey, if it makes you happy, more power to you... not believing in an afterlife makes everything seem really pointless a lot of times...

sorry if that made absolutely no sense... i am on benzodiazepines

 

[Nathan]

I'm telling you guys what you are feeling is the placebo effect.

 

[gwl9dta4]

I'm telling you guys what you are feeling is the placebo effect.

So if i gave you a placebo pill and you gained 20lbs of muscle and got your fat down to 5%, would you want to know? Or have it taken away?

Eitherway it makes me feel good and in the end that is all that matters.

 

[gwl9dta4]

christianity seems very selfish to me too... people follow it because it's convenient (you don't dedicate much going to church once a month or so -- but i know many people go more often than that) and moreover because it offers THEM something... i seriously doubt that people would follow chrisitianity if they felt they had nothing to gain from it... also, christians offer no benefit to society per se by being christian, they are only trying to save their own neck... but hey, if it makes you happy, more power to you... not believing in an afterlife makes everything seem really pointless a lot of times...

sorry if that made absolutely no sense... i am on benzodiazepines

Come on man, that is one of the most uninfomred posts i have read in a while. Try to educate yourself on these matters before you speak. Seriously dude.

 

[casavant]

So if i gave you a placebo pill and you gained 20lbs of muscle and got your fat down to 5%, would you want to know? Or have it taken away?

Eitherway it makes me feel good and in the end that is all that matters.

Nice subtle use of sarcasm.

 

[scruples]

Come on man, that is one of the most uninfomred posts i have read in a while. Try to educate yourself on these matters before you speak. Seriously dude.

i don't understand are you being sarcastic?

if not, i don't think that opinions on religion can be considered informed/uninformed...

 

[casavant]

And for those who don't believe, what if you died tommorrow and the whole God/Jesus/Christianity thing turned out to be true? That's a situation I would not want to be in. A never ending torture of fire and brimstone.

Turn before you burn! (tee hee hee)

That is the most ignorant, self-serving reason to "believe" something that I've ever heard. And surprisingly, I hear it a lot from otherwise intelligent people. You can't just choose to believe something. That's not genuine belief. Say there was no concept of God as Christianity teaches, but instead, the prevailing belief was that there were little purple polka-dotted men from the planet Galactar that were going to come to Earth in the year 2020. Using their mind-reading skills, they were going to annihilate anybody who didn't previously believe in their existence. Would you just "believe" this on the off chance that it were really true? If you don't believe, you don't believe. Sorry.

 

[gwl9dta4]

i don't understand are you being sarcastic?

if not, i don't think that opinions on religion can be considered informed/uninformed...

No i was serious but not trying to be offesive.

 

[scruples]

That is the most ignorant, self-serving reason to "believe" something that I've ever heard. And surprisingly, I hear it a lot from otherwise intelligent people. You can't just choose to believe something. That's not genuine belief. Say there was no concept of God as Christianity teaches, but instead, the prevailing belief was that there were little purple polka-dotted men from the planet Galactar that were going to come to Earth in the year 2020. Using their mind-reading skills, they were going to annihilate anybody who didn't previously believe in their existence. Would you just "believe" this on the off chance that it were really true? If you don't believe, you don't believe. Sorry.

that's basically what i was getting at except i couldn't do it due to mental constraints

 

[scruples]

i would hook you up w/karma if it weren't grey

 

[gwl9dta4]

OK guys, some i am sure are selfish in the reason on why they follow the religion they follow, in this case christianity. BUT here is what i was talking about earlier, just because you see people that seem, for a lack of a better work fucked up in their reasons for being christian or what not, do not let that keep you from finding out what the beliefs call for.

Being Catholic and raised as such i can tell you that catholicism is one of the most self less religions, at least if you follow it correctly.

Our Pope Jan Pawel Wojtyla II warn the world of the dangers of greed and capitalism and the trap greed will impose on your life and the slave it will turn you into. As far as i am concerned it's true.

 

[scruples]

Our Pope Jan Pawel Wojtyla II warn the world of the dangers of greed and capitalism and the trap greed will impose on your life and the slave it will turn you into. As far as i am concerned it's true.

yeah, that damn capitalism... some dangerous shit...

i think that it could be argued that someone who wants to protect someone else from perceived "evil" does so simply to advance themselves in the eyes of their "god"

 

[gwl9dta4]

yeah, that damn capitalism... some dangerous shit...

i think that it could be argued that someone who wants to protect someone else from perceived "evil" does so simply to advance themselves in the eyes of their "god"

No i think you missed the point. Remeber that GOD in Catholicism want to you to be happy. What he is warning about is letting your greed consume you in a way that you spent your whole life working for the money and neglecting everything else, like family friends and all the little joys life has to offer. His message is to not be consumed by greed and excess. What is wrong with that?

 

[scruples]

No i think you missed the point. Remeber that GOD in Catholicism want to you to be happy.

then why is the world so full of terrible suffering??

 

[gwl9dta4]

then why is the world so full of terrible suffering??

That is a phillosophical question, that i do not think i'm qualified to argue at this time. However i can tell you, that the world is also full of happy and joyous people. There are also many people that have all it takes to being happy but are not because they are consumed by the forewarned greed.

My understanding it that everyperson is being fought or competed over by both sides God and the other guy, let's call him the Devil. They both want you, you deicde whom you will let in. Take a country like Afganistan, who is in charge, or Saudi Arabia, who is in charge? Would you say their leaders are consumed by greed and their population suffers?

I do not have all the answers, but there is something in the bible about the world being divided and it just so happens that the middle east is the area refered to as the place where the devil will rule with hunger and despiration and that that region will never know peace. Seems true so far and most unfortunate.

 

[casavant]

Jesus Motherfucking Goddamn Christ- can you Christians not see how the whole Heaven/Hell, everlasting serenity/eternal damnation dogma of conventional Christianity appeals to the most basic, childlike reward/punishment system? Can you not understand how human it is to want to believe that there is something better waiting for us at the end of this shitty joke we call life, as long as we're good little boys and girls? In a life that ultimately is so far beyond our control, religion offers some solace, but are you not the least bit skeptical?

I like you fellers, but I just want to repeatedly bang my head into a brick wall every time a thread like this comes up.

 

[Nathan]

Jesus Motherfucking Goddamn Christ- can you Christians not see how the whole Heaven/Hell, everlasting serenity/eternal damnation dogma of conventional Christianity appeals to the most basic, childlike reward/punishment system? Can you not understand how human it is to want to believe that there is something better waiting for us at the end of this shitty joke we call life, as long as we're good little boys and girls? In a life that ultimately is so far beyond our control, religion offers some solace, but are you not the least bit skeptical?

I like you fellers, but I just want to repeatedly bang my head into a brick wall every time a thread like this comes up.

Word.

It's all fine and good to be feeling better through a placebo effect, but it is like believing that what you don't know won't hurt you. It's spending so much time and effort to ignore the obvious. What a waste of time.

 

[casavant]

The god you believe in is petty, whimsical, and vindictive. I think I'll pass.

 

[gwl9dta4]

Jesus Motherfucking Goddamn Christ- can you Christians not see how the whole Heaven/Hell, everlasting serenity/eternal damnation dogma of conventional Christianity appeals to the most basic, childlike reward/punishment system?

Yes but that does not make it bad, does it?

Can you not understand how human it is to want to believe that there is something better waiting for us at the end of this shitty joke we call life, as long as we're good little boys and girls?

Look dude, since it's a human instinct as you put it, then why deny it? Just accept it ang go with it, your life will be fuller, trust me. Certain things are intangible in life, like the love of your parents and family and sure feels good knowing it's there and i am sure you will not deny that, it's the same with those that love their God. Silly or not it enriches their life. And there is nothing wrong with doing your best to be a good guy. I am sure a good guy will make a much better and reliable training parter which will make your workouts better and be in better shape thus being more happy overall. See the value of "good" people.

In a life that ultimately is so far beyond our control, religion offers some solace, but are you not the least bit skeptical?

some are sceptical, but if you want solace and religion gives it to you then just accept it and don't over think it.

I like you fellers, but I just want to repeatedly bang my head into a brick wall every time a thread like this comes up.

we like you too, don't go around hurting God's temple. Religion teaches tolerance to others. So try to tolerate us and you will be less aggrivated.

 

[scruples]

I do not have all the answers, but there is something in the bible about the world being divided and it just so happens that the middle east is the area refered to as the place where the devil will rule with hunger and despiration and that that region will never know peace. Seems true so far and most unfortunate.

glad you take the bible literally... however, suffering does not have any geographic bounds... people must endure shit in all parts of the world, and that no doubt includes the united states...

 

[sereneman]

I was there in my living room flipping throught the channels and stopped at an show with a minister talking about God in some big international center in TX, anyway he was talking about how the bible and God tell you to not let your enemies take away you joy! How you should always be happy and look forward to the future no matter what because God is in you and will protect you like a shield, if you take him into you heart. The he did a prayer and asked that everyone in the audience repeat it, he also urged people to find God, but not to join a church if they do not want to, but rather to build a personal relationship with God and Jesus Christ. Now this made a lot of sence, so i said the little prayer with him in my living room and i had the wierdest warm tingly feeling all over and felt like all my cares and trubles were instantly greatly diminished.

No matter what the explanation, i am convinced that this was the greatest happy pill i ever took. it made me think of all those people suffereing from depression and emptiness in their life and how they could benefit from a PERSONAL relationship with GOD with no church involved. it certainly brightened up my day so far.

I should point out that i am a Catholic but have strayed from my religion in the past years, but as i live my life more i find that praying to God is more and more important in my life and enchances the quality of my life. And imagine, for years i thought religion was corny, LOL!

I am glad for you. Most people need something to Hope for. Religion is the opiate of the masses. However that tingling feeling, I can only speculate is nothing more than your own thoughts. I've had it too but I don't see that it necessarily means anything. Where is God? Nooone knows because he is invisible---like Santa Clause, the Easter bunny, etc. They lied to me when I was a child, why should I believe them now. I've heard of many circumstances and strange coincidences that have confirmed people's belief in God of all faiths. I am a human being, the only way I can communicate is through the senses. If there is a God, There is no use lying to God. Until I see God, I will never know if God is real. Then I will wonder if I'm being tricked. Because it seems that if God is real--- that he likes to screw with people.

 

[sereneman]

Then define "salvation" from an Atheists view. (not neccessarily saying you are).

They don't believe in salvation. heck they have no beliefs as far as I know, about anything after this life.

Let's say for arguement sake that there is no after life, no Heaven, no Hell, etc.....
Then would it really matter to me? No. I'd just be dust rotting away in a grave somewhere, not having to worry with anything. No loss I suppose, other than living a happy peaceful life, which ain't so bad.

Now let's say the opposite, that there is all the stuff mentioned above. Then what? i know where I'd go. how about you? -Why take the risk? -What if you received a tip that someone was going to break into your house. Would you just sit there and take the chance, or would you go out and buy a gun to protect yourself and be safe?

I've heard this ridiculous argument many times. It doesn't matter, you have to be true to yourself. What you say makes no sense to me. All you have to do is believe and you will be saved? Saved from what? Because it sure the heck isn't going to save you from death and suffering. I've seen and heard many a religious person---as they were dying, and they were scared shitless, weren't talking about being glad to go see Jesus. And what if any of the other thousands of religions are correct? I wish it were simple, but it's not. It sucks.

 

[sereneman]

Alien amp pharm seems to be the only one that gets it. You do NOT have to be a Bile thumper or go to Church or feel and be corny to believe in God. I think those notions turn a lot of young people away from religion in general.

What if you were in the gym and you hard the likes of an in shape Arnold mentioning in a passing conversation that he is a minister or a priest? Would people like that make it more appealing? Look at it this way a personal relationship with God and Jesus Christ is very rewarding and WILL enhance your life. You have nothing to loose by trying it. God will love you either way and accept you when you are ready to come. His/her doors are always open.

No, and you don't get it either. You cannot know what cannot be known. People with that thought are the only ones that get it. You can only Hope.

 

[casavant]

Excuse me while I go pound my head repeatedly into a brick wall.

 

[gwl9dta4]

Funny how a lot of people are bothered and seemingly agrivated by me saying i said a prayer and it felt good.

Why the need to point out my obvious foolishness?

Why the need to clearly state there it no "PROOF" God exists?

Why mock and imply weak mindness?

Does the notion of someone believing smoething you do not bother and irk you that much? The devil in you is angry at me

 

[casavant]

Whatever floats your boat dude. I was mainly responding to the idea that you can choose to believe in God just so you won't go to hell if God turns out to exist.

 

[Mysterio]

I like to pray sometimes less then I should.

 

[sereneman]

Funny how a lot of people are bothered and seemingly agrivated by me saying i said a prayer and it felt good.

Why the need to point out my obvious foolishness?

Why the need to clearly state there it no "PROOF" God exists?

Why mock and imply weak mindness?

Does the notion of someone believing smoething you do not bother and irk you that much? The devil in you is angry at me

No, no. I'm not mocking you for praying. I pray too sometimes. I have a child that I love with all my heart, to see her suffer in any way causes me great pain. I have to hope there is something beyond this existence. I just don't know and I can't lie about that in order to be saved. I pray to whomever God may be if you can here me. Go ahead make fun of me, I don't care. This life is seemingly a cruel joke.

 

[gwl9dta4]

Whatever floats your boat dude. I was mainly responding to the idea that you can choose to believe in God just so you won't go to hell if God turns out to exist.

That is never my basis for believing. I simply said it makes me feel good or "better" when i say a prayer and accept God and Jesus Christ into my heart. It has nothig to do with me needing to believe in "something" or having something to "hope" for or any such thing. It just makes me feel better, it's a subconscious thing. So there. Some take a prozac, some say a prayer. Whatever works right? Some like Deca some like Sust. Neither is bad or wrong or silly.

 

[Mysterio]

That is never my basis for believing. I simply said it makes me feel good or "better" when i say a prayer and accept God and Jesus Christ into my heart. It has nothig to do with me needing to believe in "something" or having something to "hope" for or any such thing. It just makes me feel better, it's a subconscious thing. So there. Some take a prozac, some say a prayer. Whatever works right? Some like Deca some like Sust. Neither is bad or wrong or silly.

Hey it shouldn't matter what others say as long as it makes you fel like a better person.

 

[gwl9dta4]

No, no. I'm not mocking you for praying. I pray too sometimes. I have a child that I love with all my heart, to see her suffer in any way causes me great pain. I have to hope there is something beyond this existence. I just don't know and I can't lie about that in order to be saved. I pray to whomever God may be if you can here me. Go ahead make fun of me, I don't care. This life is seemingly a cruel joke.

No joke and i will not make fun of you, there is nothing to make fun of. Pray to God, be positive and influence your kid with positive thoughts and the valuable Catholic values of family and love in general for the fellow man and woman. You can't go wrong with that. Too many parents raising kids today fail to apply those values and hence we have youth in the state it is in today. As for whom or what God is, who cares. Wheather it's a man, woman, alien or some all encompassing energy, it does not matter to me.

 

[sereneman]

Hey it shouldn't matter what others say as long as it makes you fel like a better person.

As long as your religion doesn't include the need to blow up buildings or make human sacrifices.

 

[gwl9dta4]

As long as your religion doesn't include the need to blow up buildings or make human sacrifices.

Right on!

 

[alien amp pharm]

That is the most ignorant, self-serving reason to "believe" something that I've ever heard. And surprisingly, I hear it a lot from otherwise intelligent people. You can't just choose to believe something. That's not genuine belief. Say there was no concept of God as Christianity teaches, but instead, the prevailing belief was that there were little purple polka-dotted men from the planet Galactar that were going to come to Earth in the year 2020. Using their mind-reading skills, they were going to annihilate anybody who didn't previously believe in their existence. Would you just "believe" this on the off chance that it were really true? If you don't believe, you don't believe. Sorry.

That's exactly what faith is - HAVING FAITH. God wants you to come to him and accept him on your own. He may knock at the door (so to speak), but it's up to you to let him in and only then will you be truly convinced that it is real.

God's not going to automatically appear and jump out from behind a tree and say "here I am, see I'm real". That's just the way it is my friend.

And when you use the analogy of "purple polka-dotted men" coming to earth, sure that seems similar and NO I wouldn't believe it, but I have seen people come to the Lord and accept it. Some of these people were ones that I thought would NEVER even take Christianity into consideration. Their lives changed 180 degrees. I also have personally witnessed 'miracles' that can only be described as "only by God".

 

[alien amp pharm]

I like you fellers, but I just want to repeatedly bang my head into a brick wall every time a thread like this comes up.

Aaawwwwwhhhh, how sweet.

That's why I try to never force my beliefs down other people's throats. I only talk on the subject whenever there is a particular thread on the matter.

I also try to respect other peoples beliefs and just simply state facts that I belief hold true.

No harm in constructive conversations.

 

[alien amp pharm]

All you have to do is believe and you will be saved? Saved from what? Because it sure the heck isn't going to save you from death and suffering.

Saved from eternal damnation and suffering (after this life)
--See my post (#54) and you'll know what you'll be saved from.

Now to answer your question of human suffering:

God made humans free moral agents, and wiht that liberty set the course for our suffering and His: ours because tragedies occur in a world marred by human sin, and His because He doesn't prevent the pain of those He loves. What He offers us is refuge. We can run to Him and cling with all our might and He will comfort us and share our pain, or we can blame Him and stubbornly suffer alone.

Ever notice how a huge tragedy in ones life will make the person more humble? And for those believers, it draws you nearer to God.

 

[alien amp pharm]

Funny how a lot of people are bothered and seemingly agrivated by me saying i said a prayer and it felt good.

Why the need to point out my obvious foolishness?

Why the need to clearly state there it no "PROOF" God exists?

Why mock and imply weak mindness?

Does the notion of someone believing smoething you do not bother and irk you that much? The devil in you is angry at me

Very true. I also believe in many things that are somewhat different from many other people's views, but I wouldn't get hardly and "negative or counter-responses" from people getting so fired up over it, unlike speaking of Christianity.

 

[alien amp pharm]

Please quote where your bible says anything about hellfire and damnation concerning hell

Hell is a place of eternal torment. The unsaved go to Hell when they die and are in a conscious state of eternal torment (Luke 16:23-28; Deut. 32:22; 2 Sam. 22:6; Is. 14:9-11).

Hell is a place without mercy. The rich man in Hell cried out saying "Have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame" (Luke 16:24).

Hell is a place without escape. Jesus taught, "Between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us" (v26). When you arrive in Hell, the prayers of ten thousand saints cannot save you.

In this life the ungodly die and go to Hell, where they wait until they are brought to the Great White Throne for final judgment before God and sentenced to the lake of fire (Rev. 19:20; 20:10, 14, 15).

 

[bigguns7]

Good for you gwl.

As for the guys who criticize christianity for being selfish and self-serving, what the hell is that?

Christians believe in a man named Jesus Christ, who is the true son of God in flesh and spirit. Chrisitians believe that in order to get to heaven, and live eternal life with their Lord, they must believe in Jesus and ask him into their hearts. What about this is self-serving? How is it self-serving to subscribe to a system of beliefs in order to make it to a better place when one dies.

Is it because you think all of our actions should be benevolent and altruistic in nature? And since when is it a bad thing to want the best for yourself? I'm just totally confused by this rationale.

 

[scruples]

Hell is a place of eternal torment. The unsaved go to Hell when they die and are in a conscious state of eternal torment (Luke 16:23-28; Deut. 32:22; 2 Sam. 22:6; Is. 14:9-11).

Hell is a place without mercy. The rich man in Hell cried out saying "Have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame" (Luke 16:24).

Hell is a place without escape. Jesus taught, "Between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us" (v26). When you arrive in Hell, the prayers of ten thousand saints cannot save you.

In this life the ungodly die and go to Hell, where they wait until they are brought to the Great White Throne for final judgment before God and sentenced to the lake of fire (Rev. 19:20; 20:10, 14, 15).

lol... don't believe everything you read....

why not believe in greek mythology?? that shit is even older than the bible and is every bit as mindless and arbitrary...

 

[alien amp pharm]

lol... don't believe everything you read....
why not believe in greek mythology?? that shit is even older than the bible and is every bit as mindless and arbitrary...

I always hear that argument, that the bible is a bunch of bull, that's it's been altered, burned, etc.

I don't doubt that it has been somewhat altered throughout time and that a lot of it is not literal but vague. You must understand though that the bible is God's word relayed thru persons. God will allow his word and truth to continue no matter what efforts there may have been in the past to change it.

Look throughout history at how many people and how many times the bible (word of God) has tried to be destroyed by man. And guess what, It's still here today despite all of that. It has survived because God has allowed it to and I truly believe it still contains everything you need to make it into heaven.

 

[scruples]

I don't doubt that it has been somewhat altered throughout time and that a lot of it is not literal but vague. You must understand though that the bible is God's word relayed thru persons. God will allow his word and truth to continue no matter what efforts there may have been in the past to change it.

then why are you quoting parts of it verbatim?? looks to me like you are taking it pretty literally...

 

[Y_lifter]

That feeling can be a daily thing...
Keep praying not only when you need something, but also when you are having a great day or just to say thanks....

www.zradio.org

I stream this great Contempory Christian station off the web

 

[alien amp pharm]

then why are you quoting parts of it verbatim?? looks to me like you are taking it pretty literally...

Most of my posts are summaries and/or how I interpret the scriptures. The part you pointed out are direct quotes from the New King James Version because Deliquent asked me to QUOTE FROM my BIBLE where it speaks of torture and fire etc. concerning Hell.

And yes, I try to take as much of the Bible literally as I can. However, I believe trying to interpert too much is an easy way to loose the true meaning of the scripture, so one needs to be cautious. That is also how some false religions and cults come into forming (by taking only pieces of scripture and also changing the meaning).

Take Revelation for example. It is full of scripture that is extremely difficult to interpret. And if it was taken literally would make no sense, esp. in present times.

 

[Testosterone boy]

Religion helps a lot of peole cope with life. they are happier and healthier due to their faith. It fascinates me people who must use drugs, legal or illegal, to cope with life turn around and attack religion.

i think most everyone has various coping mechanisms for an imperfect world. If something works for someone, more power to them. We should all be quite happy that a simple prayer made the original author a happier man for a period of time. The subsequent attacks on a persons happiness seem sinister to me.

 

[supersizeme]

I once prayed to a plastic Satan action figure and got hit by an excavator bucket when I left the store.

Religion has departed from my brain now; never to return. Except for MC Hammer's song "Pray", which is a lot better than "Pumps and a Bump."

lol

 

[john937]

I'm not going to debate the theoretical on this, I'm not expert enough to make stunning theological arguments. That's why I associate with a Minister, at a church, someone I can respect, who makes those theoretical arguments for me, and I listen, and they make sense, and further deepen and enhance my religious experience. I suggest you do the same. Are you really going to decide your eternal destiny based on a chat room argument?

What I can discuss is how I was led to faith.
For several years I was studying meditation with a Zen teacher, and during meditation I experienced things I cannot explain with science. I saw the teacher's aura, a golden glow enveloping his body in radiant light. I experienced several times he was able to read my thoughts. I experienced visual phenomena I can't discuss in a short excerpt except to say they definitly didn't conform to the science text books I've ever seen. I experienced what we call "syncronisity", things happen at just the right time that you can't explain like the sun coming out on a rainy day at just the right time for a pre-announced picnic. Any one event could be explained away as chance, but occured so often we began depending on them.
The thing I most took away from my time with the Zen teacher, is the world explaination given by science is woefully inadequate. There are mystical and phenomenal experiences to be had that just can't be reasoned away.

As amazing as they were, my experiences with the Zen teacher lacked something.
I couldn't find proof underlying the teachings. So much of the teaching sounded right, but how do you know for SURE that it is true, and not just "sounds good"?
This brought me back to a study of Biblical prophecy, how the intricately interlocking statements made over thousands of years have come true, and seem to point to future events that are also coming true. I found in Biblical prophecy a level of "proof" totally lacking in any other faith system.

This led me to seek out a local Christian church, and went thru several till I found the right mix of people I enjoyed having as friends, and a minister with a mental capacity to both challenge me to be a better person, and provide theological insight into the Bible text . There are times in church service that I get that catharsis, emotional release, and afterword feel so much lighter and clean. And I'll grant you, Nathan, that part could be simply placebo effect, but it's welcome whatever it is.

But there are other times when I feel undenyably "guided" by the unseen hand. For instance the time I just didn't feel comfortable with my current computer backups, and took an unscheduled backup of my server, which crashed 5 minutes after the backup completed. Things like that, that make you go "Wow, Thank you Lord, for the protection!" Sure, it could be coincidence, but there sure is a LOT of "coincidence" in my life these days.
Sorry if I'm long winded and rambling, but it's hard to condense years of developing faith into a couple of short sentences.

 

[Y_lifter]

Thanks for sharing John...

I occasionally find my big ol self getting chocked up sometimes during a service or sermon.

This is the Holy Spirit reaching out and with you.

 

[casavant]

Religion helps a lot of peole cope with life. they are happier and healthier due to their faith. It fascinates me people who must use drugs, legal or illegal, to cope with life turn around and attack religion.

i think most everyone has various coping mechanisms for an imperfect world. If something works for someone, more power to them. We should all be quite happy that a simple prayer made the original author a happier man for a period of time. The subsequent attacks on a persons happiness seem sinister to me.

The difference is that when you use drugs, you know you're just using drugs. But religion doesn't work as a coping mechanism unless you REALLY BELIEVE IN IT. You can't just say, "I know this is a crock of shit, but I'm going to subscribe to it anyway to make me feel better." It won't work then. No, you have to genuinely believe in it and to some extent shape your life around it for it to work, which is fine I guess except for we have to put up with those annoying mideival fire and brimstone stories about how us heathens are going to end up in eternal torment.

Honestly...and I'm being honest here- I think I get fired up over this subject a little because I perceive it as signifying ignorance, self-righteousness, and a lack of self-awareness. All of which are characteristics that irk me to no end. I know, that sounded really shitty, and I'm not trying to make enemies out of anyone on this thread, but I think that is the real reason when it comes down to it.

 

[casavant]

That's exactly what faith is - HAVING FAITH. God wants you to come to him and accept him on your own. He may knock at the door (so to speak), but it's up to you to let him in and only then will you be truly convinced that it is real.

God's not going to automatically appear and jump out from behind a tree and say "here I am, see I'm real". That's just the way it is my friend.

And when you use the analogy of "purple polka-dotted men" coming to earth, sure that seems similar and NO I wouldn't believe it, but I have seen people come to the Lord and accept it. Some of these people were ones that I thought would NEVER even take Christianity into consideration. Their lives changed 180 degrees. I also have personally witnessed 'miracles' that can only be described as "only by God".

If it's a matter of HAVING FAITH, then why are you using an argument that is used as a classic example of logic in philosophy classes everywhere? Don't tell me that believing in a Christian God is a logical choice and talk to me about having faith in the same breath. Who makes a logical decision to have faith in something? Faith is pure emotion. Faith is to logic as oil is to water.

 

[john937]

Don't tell me that believing in a Christian God is a logical choice and talk to me about having faith in the same breath. Who makes a logical decision to have faith in something? Faith is pure emotion. Faith is to logic as oil is to water.

This thread has wandered around so much I'm not sure what's being debated anymore.
But for my part, speaking only for myself, I had to have some sort of logical underpinning beneath my faith.
That's why I became so facinated with the prophecies, and how they interlocked to such an extent, that to do the same with meere random chance would be statistically impossible.
Once I determined that the prophecies could not be duplicated by chance, that gave me the logical underpinnings on which to extend my faith.
Then thru experiencing faith, my faith has become stronger, because God seems to be working in the lives of those with faith.

 

[casavant]

Any takers?

 

[john937]

Any takers?

I'm not selling anything.

 

[gwl9dta4]

Then thru experiencing faith, my faith has become stronger, because God seems to be working in the lives of those with faith.

ABSOLUTELY!

 

[casavant]

I'm not selling anything.

Your post wasn't up when I posted that.

 

[jesus 2]

you think that is great?

wait until you accept jesus 2 into your life! you will be amazed.

 

[gwl9dta4]

you think that is great?

wait until you accept jesus 2 into your life! you will be amazed.

Can you spell "C O R N Y ?" As in you are corny, or this joke is corny. Oh wel it takes all kinds to make the world go around.

 

[jesus 2]

Can you spell "C O R N Y ?" As in you are corny, or this joke is corny. Oh wel it takes all kinds to make the world go around.

indeed. some people need, god, some people need jesus christ, others buddah, some allah, and some jah.

then there are those who need jesus 2.

j2

 

[casavant]

Where did you find all those quotes, J2?

 

[jesus 2]

they are just a little anti-religion sentiment i have collected when happened uponed randomly. the first two were conjured by yours truly, jesus 2.

j2

 

[casavant]

they are just a little anti-religion sentiment i have collected when happened uponed randomly. the first two were conjured by yours truly, jesus 2.

j2

Aaah...I see.

You get my PM?

 

[gwl9dta4]

indeed. some people need, god, some people need jesus christ, others buddah, some allah, and some jah.

then there are those who need jesus 2.

j2

Glad you took that in jest.


BTW: why do some people study and seek anti religion sentiment? What if they devoted all that energy to literally finding out what religion is about and read all the holy scriptures and prophecies, what do you think yould happen then?? I think they know the answer.

 

[casavant]

Glad you took that in jest.


BTW: why do some people study and seek anti religion sentiment? What if they devoted all that energy to literally finding out what religion is about and read all the holy scriptures and prophecies, what do you think yould happen then?? I think they know the answer.

I don't study or seek it that much. I don't give a rat's ass that much what is out there. Nobody can know for sure, so why bother? Maybe that sounds like a copout, but really, why? Hell, maybe there is a God. Maybe he is the petty, whimsical, vindictive piece of shit that all you conventional Christians believe in. Maybe I'm fucked. Would the fact that He "existed" make His way the right way? Why? Because He could cast me into eternal torment, or grant me everlasting bliss? Have you ever thought very deeply into the question of what makes God right? What is the difference between God and Barney the Dinosaur? In the end, it's power, isn't it? You believe God has the ultimate power to make or break you. So belief in God is purely utilitarian and self-serving. Or arbitrary, at best.

 

[scruples]

What is the difference between God and Barney the Dinosaur? In the end, it's power, isn't it? You believe God has the ultimate power to make or break you. So belief in God is purely utilitarian and self-serving. Or arbitrary, at best.

agreed 100%... why don't the bible thumpers have anything to say about this other than, "you're wrong, i'm right"... they sound like a bunch of fuckin kindergarteners...

 

[scruples]

oh, and jesus 2, those are some great quotes in your signature...

personal fav:

"where knowledge ends, religion begins"

 

[huntmaster]

If it's a matter of HAVING FAITH, then why are you using an argument that is used as a classic example of logic in philosophy classes everywhere? Don't tell me that believing in a Christian God is a logical choice and talk to me about having faith in the same breath. Who makes a logical decision to have faith in something? Faith is pure emotion. Faith is to logic as oil is to water.

i will have to subtlely disagree here---Faith is not to logic as oil is to water for me

logic supports my faith

logic of the human body and how it is designed to all work together in all of its intracacies.

logic of the universe and its complexity

logic of the ecosystem and how oxygen is produced for us to breath.

 

[huntmaster]

I was there in my living room flipping throught the channels and stopped at an show with a minister talking about God in some big international center in TX, anyway he was talking about how the bible and God tell you to not let your enemies take away you joy! How you should always be happy and look forward to the future no matter what because God is in you and will protect you like a shield, if you take him into you heart. The he did a prayer and asked that everyone in the audience repeat it, he also urged people to find God, but not to join a church if they do not want to, but rather to build a personal relationship with God and Jesus Christ. Now this made a lot of sence, so i said the little prayer with him in my living room and i had the wierdest warm tingly feeling all over and felt like all my cares and trubles were instantly greatly diminished.

No matter what the explanation, i am convinced that this was the greatest happy pill i ever took. it made me think of all those people suffereing from depression and emptiness in their life and how they could benefit from a PERSONAL relationship with GOD with no church involved. it certainly brightened up my day so far.

I should point out that i am a Catholic but have strayed from my religion in the past years, but as i live my life more i find that praying to God is more and more important in my life and enchances the quality of my life. And imagine, for years i thought religion was corny, LOL!

I comend you my friend--not only for accepting Christ and coming to know Him--but also for being man enough to admit it.

as you grow in the Lord you will most likely feel a need to fellowship with other believers who believe as you do ---- Church is a good place to find people who can help you grow in your faith.

Satan wants us to have a negative view of Church so that we will all be going through life on our own---this makes us an easier target for Satan to pick apart.

PM me bro if you ever need to talk about this or any other of your experiences

 

[casavant]

i will have to subtlely disagree here---Faith is not to logic as oil is to water for me

logic supports my faith

logic of the human body and how it is designed to all work together in all of its intracacies.

logic of the universe and its complexity

logic of the ecosystem and how oxygen is produced for us to breath.

LOL. I'm not getting into this with you again huntmaster. I'd rather just bump that thread from about...was it eight months ago? We've made our peace.

 

[scruples]

i will have to subtlely disagree here---Faith is not to logic as oil is to water for me

logic supports my faith

logic of the human body and how it is designed to all work together in all of its intracacies.

logic of the universe and its complexity

logic of the ecosystem and how oxygen is produced for us to breath.

so you believe that all these systems were put in place and have held static since the 'beginning' of time?? do you believe in evolution and the big bang theory??

 

[huntmaster]

no, i believe it was all formed by the hand of God

i believe it is proof of a designer or creator

i am basically encouraging my friend who started this thread

 

[huntmaster]

LOL. I'm not getting into this with you again huntmaster. I'd rather just bump that thread from about...was it eight months ago? We've made our peace.

your a good man casavant, i dont care what George says about you!

 

[casavant]

your a good man casavant, i dont care what George says about you!

I hear ya. Me and George....it was never meant to be, I suppose. LOL.

 

[john937]

so you believe that all these systems were put in place and have held static since the 'beginning' of time?? do you believe in evolution and the big bang theory??

Most Christians have no problem believing both the Bible and the big bang. The Bible describes God created the heavens. The big bang describes how it occured.

 

[alien amp pharm]

Some examples of having faith I've experienced personally:

"....Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full" (John 16:24).
I could write a few pages on how I found my house. Basically I had been searching for 2 years without any success. I kept praying the whole time though to find the right house for me. Well long story short, I found a house that had everything I was wanting plus more and at a price you wouldn't believe no matter how many times I told you. Coincidence? No, It was thru prayer and FAITH that God blessed me with this incredible house.

For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit......(Heb 4:12)
I have known a couple of guys that should've been in prison for a long time. I only knew some of the stuff they did and could only imagine what else they had done in their lifetimes. I also saw these people finally accept the Lord into their lives. Now they are 180 degrees from where they once were. Coincidence? Nope, only faith could've changed them to that degree.

Prophecy Have you ever read the prophecy in the Bible both past and future to come? It is amazing how accurate it is. It tells of things that's already taken place long after the author(s) had written about it. It's also amazing to read of things yet to come. -Of course if your mind is already closed up reading won't do much good.

 

[casavant]

Some examples of having faith I've experienced personally:

"....Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full" (John 16:24).
I could write a few pages on how I found my house. Basically I had been searching for 2 years without any success. I kept praying the whole time though to find the right house for me. Well long story short, I found a house that had everything I was wanting plus more and at a price you wouldn't believe no matter how many times I told you. Coincidence? No, It was thru prayer and FAITH that God blessed me with this incredible house.

For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit......(Heb 4:12)
I have known a couple of guys that should've been in prison for a long time. I only knew some of the stuff they did and could only imagine what else they had done in their lifetimes. I also saw these people finally accept the Lord into their lives. Now they are 180 degrees from where they once were. Coincidence? Nope, only faith could've changed them to that degree.

Prophecy Have you ever read the prophecy in the Bible both past and future to come? It is amazing how accurate it is. It tells of things that's already taken place long after the author(s) had written about it. It's also amazing to read of things yet to come. -Of course if your mind is already closed up reading won't do much good.

1) That doesn't mean anything unless God answered you're prayers everytime. And don't tell me, "That's not the way prayer works." Well, maybe not, but either way, your story doesn't prove jacksquat. I could pray to my TV set and have my prayers "answered" some of the time.

2) Of course, if they really believe in the Bible then they're going to be motivated to change. The same can be said for any other religion. Studies show that people with strong faith recover better in times of sickness, but that doesn't apply solely to Christianity. It's a mental thing.

3) Prophecies are always vague and make liberal use of symbolism. They make perfect sense in hindsight when you can make the facts fit the cryptic wording. I'd believe in the prophecies of the Bible if it said something like, "A man named Hitler in a country called Germany will come to power in the 1930's and will embark on a mission to exterminate all Jews and create a 'pure' Aryan race. He will also be a liberal user of methamphetamine". The prophecies are "accurate" because you want to believe. Ever wonder how Miss Cleo makes her money?

 

[scruples]

For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit......(Heb 4:12)
I have known a couple of guys that should've been in prison for a long time. I only knew some of the stuff they did and could only imagine what else they had done in their lifetimes. I also saw these people finally accept the Lord into their lives. Now they are 180 degrees from where they once were. Coincidence? Nope, only faith could've changed them to that degree.

and i'm a reformed fuckup and the only thing that set me straight was self-desire... never once did i "pray" of "find god" or any of that shit... i also like how you prayers are self-serving... so you acquired some material goods from praying (i.e. your house)?? sounds like all you really care about is YOU

 

[casavant]

they are just a little anti-religion sentiment i have collected when happened uponed randomly. the first two were conjured by yours truly, jesus 2.

j2

LOL. I came across this site while doing an unrelated search and couldn't resist throwing a couple in my sig:

http://www.math.unl.edu/~augustyn/godisdead.html

 

[huntmaster]

one day it will all come out in the wash



and everyone will know


there will be nothing to say either way

because everyone have the truth right smack in front of their faces--in plain view


until then---we debate

 

[alien amp pharm]

1) That doesn't mean anything unless God answered you're prayers everytime. And don't tell me, "That's not the way prayer works." Well, maybe not, but either way, your story doesn't prove jacksquat. I could pray to my TV set and have my prayers "answered" some of the time.

>>>>>but that's not the way prayer works. Seriously, though, you would have to know me and the situation to fully understand the extent of how my prayer got answered.

2) Of course, if they really believe in the Bible then they're going to be motivated to change. The same can be said for any other religion. Studies show that people with strong faith recover better in times of sickness, but that doesn't apply solely to Christianity. It's a mental thing.

>>>>>Well I cannot speak for other people and their commitments to whichever religion they believe, and of course this would vary from individual to individual. What I can say is that if you pointed a gun to my head and told me to renounce God and my Christianity you better just go ahead and pull the trigger because it ain't gonna happen. Now I cannot think of anything else (other than family/saving people) that I would do that for. Do you think I'd give my life for something I doubted existed, or only partially believed in? Hopefully one day you will experience the realness of it too.

3) Prophecies are always vague and make liberal use of symbolism. They make perfect sense in hindsight when you can make the facts fit the cryptic wording. I'd believe in the prophecies of the Bible if it said something like, "A man named Hitler in a country called Germany will come to power in the 1930's and will embark on a mission to exterminate all Jews and create a 'pure' Aryan race. He will also be a liberal user of methamphetamine". The prophecies are "accurate" because you want to believe. Ever wonder how Miss Cleo makes her money?

>>>>>There are over 8300 verses in the Bible that contain predictive prophecy. Here's one that came true near present time:
In Isaiah 66:8, Isaiah speks of Israel becoming a nation. -On May 15, 1948 Israel was reborn as a nation. (this is also where Christ will set his throne upon his return) In Amos 9:14-15, it speaks that Israel will never be destroyed again. Now how many battles have they had in present time and they have been successful every single time?!

 

[alien amp pharm]

and i'm a reformed fuckup and the only thing that set me straight was self-desire... never once did i "pray" of "find god" or any of that shit... i also like how you prayers are self-serving... so you acquired some material goods from praying (i.e. your house)?? sounds like all you really care about is YOU

Yeah, I got tired of paying rent in a apt, got tired of all the noise, got tired of my car getting broken into and my stuff stolen. So I asked for the right place where I need to be.-Not to magically have a house given to me. And FYI, 95% of the time I pray for other people and their needs. I am in no way selfish or self seeking things to benefit only myself.

 

[alien amp pharm]

one day it will all come out in the wash

and everyone will know

there will be nothing to say either way

because everyone have the truth right smack in front of their faces--in plain view

until then---we debate

It was someone on this very board that once said (and I'm paraphrasing) "Why all the fighting. One day whenever we die it'll be too late for the non-believers to go back into life and accept the Lord, and for the believers it'll be too late to say "I told you so!""