small joints

[jerkbox]

anyone have any theories as to how small joints/bone structure plays into strength?

I have very small joints....small wrists, small knees, etc.

lately, I have become very frustrated with my lack of gains in strength.....I don't seem to have a problem putting on mass when my diet is in check and I am training hard......but it seems I have minimal strength gains.

i realize there could be a lot of factors at play here....training, form, rest, intesity, etc. I am interested in hearing folk's opnions about joints, connective tissue and bone structure as applied to strength....do bigger joints produce superior strength?

(btw, I'm 6'1, 235 lbs or so......28 yrs old.
I know there's plenty of guys my size who are benching 400-500 i'm sure. I'd like to get to this point, or close to it.....i won't even post my bench here)

 

[Bulldog_10]

Might have something to do with your insertion points of your muscles. A muscle that inserts further from the joint will produce more torque (because of the large moment arm) but be slower. A muscle that inserts closer to the joint won't produce as much torque around the joint, but will move the bone faster.

Might not be your problem...but it could very well be. I think it's common with small joints...which makes sense.

 

[bran987]

how big around is your wrist?

 

[Becoming]

Big dog makes a point with insertion points maybe having an effect, but small joints does not mean a thing as far as I know...

My wrists only measure just under 7.5 inches, and I have quite a few pounds on you... I am sure yours can not be much smaller....

I think I read a response to such a question once by louis simmons and he dispelled it as total hogwash and I would tend to agree...

I have known plenty of strong as hell guys with smaller bone structure- and tons of guys who could not lift any great weight even for someon half their size and they looked like gigantors...

I think a lot of strength comes from training for strength... handling bigger weights and adapting to it... also mindset and getting after that goal... and doing slightly different things over time.... I don't think it happens by accident...

I think people are motivated to varying degrees by one of two things 1)strength/performance or 2)size/how they look.... of course I think there will be a continuim along which each person will have a different score.... over time these things will affect ones training and one's daily progress..... overtime the cumulative effect will be pretty great...

say if you compare you and another guy who have been lifting the same amount of time, roughly the same frame (and bones/joints for argument) and in all other aspects is the same.....

If for that person lifting bigger weights has always been a goal of theirs as an end in and of itself... even if it is subconsiously, I think that would have an influence on performance... especially over time...

 

[jerkbox]

what about the size of tendons/ligaments?

my wrist measures just about 6 7/8"....so, a hair under 7 inches.

oddly enough, my wrist size varies a lot, i notice my watch is tighter sometimes. the times when I've had long layoffs from lifting, it shrinks dramatically. they seem kind of smallish right now, not sure why.

anyway, it seems like some people just put up a hell of a lot more weight than me, a lot easier. my bench has always especially sucked.

i know i need to reanalyze my training goals and approach.

here's another funny thing, my close grip bench is probably very close to my flat bench....how much of a difference would be typical? i also seem to prefer a closer grip than most when doing flat bench.

 

[Sub-Zero]

maybe your chests just arnt very strong...

and dont be scared to post your bench up....the best ive ever done is 185

 

[Becoming]

dude if the tendons or ligament size were important- I would say you would be rupturing them - which you aren't- so they don't matter...

that is pretty small I guess- but I used to play ball with a dude who was a good amount stronger than me (he was a DT) and he had smaller hands/wrists than I did (in fact we used to make fun of him and say he had "girl hands" but he was strong as hell (used to rep out with 365-400) and would knock your ass out with one punch)...

my wrists/fingers fluctuate quite a bit with how much water I think I am keeping and I think I am keeping a good amount (somedays I put my wedding band on my pinky and it fits perfect!) so yeah it will vary...

I don't think you can ever say "what comparison is typical" I don't think there is any such thing bro... I woud say I also have a pretty strong close grip- in fact I think it is my close grip that gives me a decent bench... I incline a hell of a lot more than I should according to "typical comparisons"- so I don't think they mean a thing

I think it is more the idea you think you have a weak bench than anything physical that is holding you back.... As my favorite old training partner used to say, "Oh yeah tough guy? well quit pussying around and throw another 45 on there then"... That is really all that is to it...

Do you bench with anyone who benches in the 400-500 range? Maybe you should and on a consistent basis, if you don't.... (if you know anyone) I think you would catch up pretty quickly... I hard not to make jumps in strength when you train with someone who is a lot stronger than you...

If you don't know anyone - but you consistently see someone at gym the same time you are there who benches a good amount more than you- ask them if you can bench with them and tell them you want to move your bench up... if they say no they are probably a dick anyways... I have done this a few times (not that I am mendelson or anything)- all someone had to do was ask...

Something from the elitefts site.... I have a feeling anyone who is at the top of the strength game would tell you the same...

"I got a dumb question. On other PL oriented sites there are threads about wrist size being an indication of how far you can go strength-gain wise. Or how a small wrist size can hold you back.

I'm curious what you guys think of that."

Jon,
Don't let anyone hold you back because of their voodoo-inspired crap. Let them make their own limitations. Stay off the forums. Nothing but negativity and bashing by guys who can't squat off the shitter.

 

[jerkbox]

i think i would really benefit from a training partner who had a much bigger bench......sadly, I am one of the strongest at my weenie gym....

 

[Scotsman]

Becoming makes some great points there. Also he has the same wrist size as me kind of scary.

Anyway Jerkbox, the actual size of the bonse won't matter much because you build bone density up when lifting heavy. It is the bodies adaptation to hard strain. Bulldog makes a great point about the insertion points on your muscles. Longer muscles tend to be stronger since there is a greater contractile length involved. All in all there shouldn't be any limit that you can't train around. Just take a look at what you are doing and what you have done in the past and see what has worked the best and try it again.

The change in wrist size is probably greatly due to the amount of water held in you body, which increases during periods of intense exercise. I notice that when I stop lifting for a week or so my watch and rings(if I wear them) fit looser than when I am training consistantly.

Also not trying to be a dick but becoming has a great point. Don't go looking for reasons to justify to yourself that your bench won't get bigger. Try to find an objective solution and keep a good mental state and focus.

Cheers,
Scotsman

 

[jerkbox]

i hear ya man.....i'm more of the attitude that if I know what is holding me back, I can figure out what I need to do to overcome it.....

i know it's possible.

 

[Lord_Suston]

Examine where your lifts fail. This is were my deadlift stalled I had a strong upper back but a shitty lockout cause I never specifically trained that weakness. So now examine your bench, you say it is close to CG press, so maybe weak Lats and Pecs, or just not using them properly. Maybe not enough speed, or breathing wrong, alot of thing can add up real quick

 

[b fold the truth]

My boss has wrists that are just a TAD over 5" and he competed in powerlifting a few years ago. Drug free and with the equipment from the 80's...(spandex basically) he did a 740 squat, 450 bench, and 670 deadlift...I believe.

If you want to get a stronger bench...contact the guys at NazBar, Mike Miller, etc...and talk with them about training the bench.

B True

 

[Becoming]

i think i would really benefit from a training partner who had a much bigger bench......sadly, I am one of the strongest at my weenie gym....

Haha- Scots is a small wristed boach!

jerk- go to a new gym dude- I am the strongest one at my weenie gym (by a long ways)- but I workout with some much bigger dudes semi-frequently to keep me moving in the right direction...

Sust has some good points too (as he always does) read up on some articles from the MM site or WSB site on bench specific asistance work, use new ways to hit tris, and blast your back..

Some links to get you started... I guess you don't have to do everything they reccommend immediately- you can pick and choose what you like- but I guarantee everything you do implement will add some pounds to your bench...

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/jm-article.htm

http://www.testosterone.net/html/body_115b600.html

http://www.testosterone.net/articles/158bench.html

 

[Becoming]

My boss has wrists that are just a TAD over 5" and he competed in powerlifting a few years ago. Drug free and with the equipment from the 80's...(spandex basically) he did a 740 squat, 450 bench, and 670 deadlift...I believe.

5" holy cow! how much did he weigh in at?

(PS- Nice to see ya back man!)

 

[b fold the truth]

5" holy cow! how much did he weigh in at?

(PS- Nice to see ya back man!)

He competed in the 242's.

I come here 2-3x a day still. There just aren't many people here anymore who are interested in strength training these days...

B True

 

[Becoming]

He competed in the 242's.

I come here 2-3x a day still. There just aren't many people here anymore who are interested in strength training these days...

B True

there are a few

 

[jerkbox]

My boss has wrists that are just a TAD over 5" and he competed in powerlifting a few years ago. Drug free and with the equipment from the 80's...(spandex basically) he did a 740 squat, 450 bench, and 670 deadlift...I believe.

If you want to get a stronger bench...contact the guys at NazBar, Mike Miller, etc...and talk with them about training the bench.

B True

lol...now you're really making me look bad.....

i am close to there too......used to live in Allentown which is a stones throw away from Nazareth....I was going to go to the seminar last Nov.....but never did.

anyway, thanks for the help guys...

btw, I maxed out tonight at 315......a personal best for me, but shitty nonetheless....3 wheels! woohoo!

 

[strongsmartsexy]

lol...now you're really making me look bad.....

i am close to there too......used to live in Allentown which is a stones throw away from Nazareth....I was going to go to the seminar last Nov.....but never did.

anyway, thanks for the help guys...

btw, I maxed out tonight at 315......a personal best for me, but shitty nonetheless....3 wheels! woohoo!

Congrats!!! All progress is good. You're only ever competing against yourself!

 

[Dieharder]

lol...now you're really making me look bad.....

i am close to there too......used to live in Allentown which is a stones throw away from Nazareth....I was going to go to the seminar last Nov.....but never did.

anyway, thanks for the help guys...

btw, I maxed out tonight at 315......a personal best for me, but shitty nonetheless....3 wheels! woohoo!

I also have decent size, but my bench was always kinda weak...i would constantly try to add too much and would lift with horrible form, so i quit benching. I ONLY do inclines now, no flat benching, in fact i havent flat benched in about 8 months.

 

[Scotsman]

Haha- Scots is a small wristed boach!

So what does that say about you?

And I'll get you for this.

Cheers,
Scotsman

 

[jerkbox]

Haha- Scots is a small wristed boach!

jerk- go to a new gym dude- I am the strongest one at my weenie gym (by a long ways)- but I workout with some much bigger dudes semi-frequently to keep me moving in the right direction...

Sust has some good points too (as he always does) read up on some articles from the MM site or WSB site on bench specific asistance work, use new ways to hit tris, and blast your back..

Some links to get you started... I guess you don't have to do everything they reccommend immediately- you can pick and choose what you like- but I guarantee everything you do implement will add some pounds to your bench...

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/jm-article.htm

http://www.testosterone.net/html/body_115b600.html

http://www.testosterone.net/articles/158bench.html

lol...i think i've read all these articles before.....

and attempted to do the program outlined there in that big bad bench one....didn't stick with it long enough though, but I did see some improvement...but i seemed to start to some lose size....which i didn't like. so now I do some strength movements combined with hypertrophy movements.

 

[Becoming]

I would say #1 keep your elbows in and do more closegrip work... and work it like you would bench... really try to move some weight bro... drop the rep ranges you work with some on regular bench, then work triples in the closegrip up to failure... throw in maybe a support excercise or two... on for tris and maybe some bent rows... really get after the weight bro... you might feel like you lose a little size at first- but it is because you are getting more efficient (improving your style) once you are able to start using heavier weights, you will start growing again... make the strenght a priority and the size will come...

also you have PM...

 

[sigweed]

ain't nothing shabby about 315lbs... if you did that at my gym they would erect a statue of you and sacrifice goats infront of it

lol...now you're really making me look bad.....

i am close to there too......used to live in Allentown which is a stones throw away from Nazareth....I was going to go to the seminar last Nov.....but never did.

anyway, thanks for the help guys...

btw, I maxed out tonight at 315......a personal best for me, but shitty nonetheless....3 wheels! woohoo!

 

[Becoming]

if you did that at my gym they would erect a statue of you and sacrifice goats infront of it

how many goats? sounds good, I will be there next week!

 

[Scotsman]

how many goats? sounds good, I will be there next week!

I'll be there too, I've always wanted people to sacrifice things at my feet.

Cheers,
Scotsman

 

[Becoming]

I'll be there too, I've always wanted people to sacrifice things at my feet.

Scotts-I hope there is a fire near by to cook them with... BTW tell the savages I prefer lamb over goat....

afterwords beers and throwing giant rocks...

 

[Scotsman]

Scotts-I hope there is a fire near by to cook them with... BTW tell the savages I prefer lamb over goat....

afterwords beers and throwing giant rocks...

In the words of judge mills layne "Let's get it on"

Cheers,
Scotsman

 

[b fold the truth]

Scotts-I hope there is a fire near by to cook them with... BTW tell the savages I prefer lamb over goat....

afterwords beers and throwing giant rocks...

Lamb is pretty darn good!!!

Dark Beer?

B True

 

[Becoming]

Lamb is pretty darn good!!!

Dark Beer?

B True

If you bring the giant rocks we can have whatever kind of beer you like.... LOL

 

[Scotsman]

Lamb is pretty darn good!!!

Dark Beer?

B True

I think dark beer goes best with or without food. Becoming has a good point though whoever brings the rocks gets to choose the type of beer.

Cheers,
Scotsman

 

[Becoming]

I think dark beer goes best with or without food. Becoming has a good point though whoever brings the rocks gets to choose the type of beer.

Hell yeah man- those rocks are a pain in the a$$!