Simplicity Is Best... Or Is It??

[satchboogie]

this issue has been on my mind for quite some time and your feedback is much appreciated.

ok here it goes..

i see all these bros building cycles made of 4 and up to 6 compounds.
i respect all opinions and cycle plans, but dont agree with such approach.

i guess some believe that switching gear every 4 weeks helps receptors stay fresh. perhaps exist studies to prove such, but after weeks of reseraching the topic, i havent found any to support the theory. i'm sure some of you can clear this up.

consensus is that growth stops after 10 weeks. so basically, after 10 weeks, you can take double and triple to doses and you wont see and significant growth (if any at all)... DONT BASH.. this is just what seems to be consensus amongst the people ive had the pleasure in helping out.

some believe that the more compounds the more growth..
i dont like that idea either..


lets take dude that plans on this:

test e 500mg a week
deca 300mg a week
tren 150mg eod
masteron 100mg eod
dbols 50mg a day

just looks too complicated.
and besides, i think each gear works differnt for different people and in the above cycle, you cant really tell which gear is doin the job!

lets assume you run the above cycle and arent very happy with the results. wtf you gonna do now?? never take those compounds again?? you see my point?? perhaps eq doesnt like you... or test e doesnt work well either.. like i said before... people react differently to steroids.

a classic example is a buddy of mine who took 6 months off the sauce..
he was so stoked to get back on the gear it was hillarious. dude ran 1g enanthate and 100mg anapolans!! you would think he blew up like a balloon??
hardly true! 10 pounds in 8 weeks and this is after 6 months off!!!

his next cycle was 400mg primo/400mg deca/ 30mg dbols..
blew up 22 pounds in 10 weeks...
and only took 2 months off between cycles!!!!
go figure! lol

would it not be easier to keep things simple and stick to one inj and one oral?
run that cycle for 8-10 and see how it works..

the next cycle you plan, run another choice of gear and see how THAT works.

i think thats really the ONLY way to find out what your body prefers.

 

[LVTitan]

my thinking is very much along those lines. i would say 3 compounds max, something like the classic test/deca/dbol etc... a couple injects and one oral to bump it up. or even a simple ot/eg or anavar / primo.. if you have sides or dont see the gains you want on a 4 or 5 gear cycle, how do you know which one is the culprit ? it makes total sense to me satch.

 

[Anthony Starks]

Satch, I'm with you 100%. These complicated cycle should be left for the pros that have made bodybuilding their career.

On a side note though, since you use deca in your shots to ease the pain, how are you going to know where your gains are coming from if every shot you are taking has deca in it?

 

[satchboogie]

Satch, I'm with you 100%. These complicated cycle should be left for the pros that have made bodybuilding their career.

On a side note though, since you use deca in your shots to ease the pain, how are you going to know where your gains are coming from if every shot you are taking has deca in it?

well bro..
i never mentioned that i use deca in all my injects.
in fact, i rarely use deca for such purpose unless i'm sticking 500mg susta in my delts (boy.. my delts are totally shot after a 2ml inj of susta).

lets take UG prop..
say GTP 200mg/1ml concentration.
dont know if you ever tried it but if there's one injection that paralyzed me for a week AND I'M NOT EXAGGERATING, its that.

even .5ml hurts badly..
mix .5ml deca and the pain is gone..

by the way.. i'm talkin about yellows/normas so keep in mind that .5cc equals 50mg and certainly an insignicant amount regarding your comment above.

you know i like human grade

 

[Anthony Starks]

I've never even used prop, so I really can't speak from experience. Sounds like it works for you so more power to you, probably will help some people out.

 

[mikebzt]

I like the thought of keeping it simple and not extending too long. The simplier it is will let you know just how you react to the few compounds instead of doing a long massive cycle in which you did not get the results you wanted and then trying to break it down and figure out exactly which compound(s) did or didn not work for you.

 

[bbkingpinn]

Simplest is to try one compound at a time until you've tried them all. That's one hell of a way to figure out which works best for you. So, after 8 or so single-compound cycles, you can stack the best 2 and maybe go on to greatness. I remember reading somewhere that that's how the greats like Arnold did so well. They figured out early what works for them and stuck with it. So much for the shotgun method!
(test-primo-winny-dbol-drol-var-deca-tren)(I know there are a lot of other more obscure/esoteric compounds out there -- e.g., masteron/permastril, turinabol, etc. -- but these 8 are the major players, though I might be forgetting something.)

 

[wls8687]

i know what you mean, 1-2-3-4 complements will not work with each other one every human beings.. in fact using 4 different steroids can accually make the 4 steroid not work.. i believe in 1 steroid+1 anti androgene... but hey that's me and maybey i'm mentaly insane ive just haven't figured it out yet.

 

[searay]

i def agree to keeping it at 2-3 compounds max. i think the complication starts at the ancillaries like an anti e for gyno, possibly proviron to add an androgen should you not be using any test, dostinex for deca induced progestin, small amounts of hcg so the boys dont shrink, gh, igf1, t3, clen. all of a sudden your on 10 different drugs. i keep thinking about being in the er some day and they ask 'are you taking any medications' ? by the time ive listed then all off, im dead.

 

[wls8687]

i def agree to keeping it at 2-3 compounds max. i think the complication starts at the ancillaries like an anti e for gyno, possibly proviron to add an androgen should you not be using any test, dostinex for deca induced progestin, small amounts of hcg so the boys dont shrink, gh, igf1, t3, clen. all of a sudden your on 10 different drugs. i keep thinking about being in the er some day and they ask 'are you taking any medications' ? by the time ive listed then all off, im dead.

haha yeah i agree

 

[LVTitan]

(test-primo-winny-dbol-drol-var-deca-tren)(I know there are a lot of other more obscure/esoteric compounds out there -- e.g., masteron/permastril, turinabol, etc. -- but these 8 are the major players, though I might be forgetting something.)

EQ

 

[bicepts101]

a classic example is a buddy of mine who took 6 months off the sauce..
he was so stoked to get back on the gear it was hillarious. dude ran 1g enanthate and 100mg anapolans!! you would think he blew up like a balloon??
hardly true! 10 pounds in 8 weeks and this is after 6 months off!!!

his next cycle was 400mg primo/400mg deca/ 30mg dbols..
blew up 22 pounds in 10 weeks...
and only took 2 months off between cycles!!!!
go figure! lol

would it not be easier to keep things simple and stick to one inj and one oral?
run that cycle for 8-10 and see how it works..

the next cycle you plan, run another choice of gear and see how THAT works.

i think thats really the ONLY way to find out what your body prefers.

that cycle isnt a very good cycle....test and drol....its like water and gyno...on the other hand the second cycle is much more quality. you got deca and dbol=a known great combo...and you got primo to solidify...

 

[bicepts101]

well bro..
i never mentioned that i use deca in all my injects.
in fact, i rarely use deca for such purpose unless i'm sticking 500mg susta in my delts (boy.. my delts are totally shot after a 2ml inj of susta).

lets take UG prop..
say GTP 200mg/1ml concentration.
dont know if you ever tried it but if there's one injection that paralyzed me for a week AND I'M NOT EXAGGERATING, its that.

even .5ml hurts badly..
mix .5ml deca and the pain is gone..

by the way.. i'm talkin about yellows/normas so keep in mind that .5cc equals 50mg and certainly an insignicant amount regarding your comment above.

you know i like human grade

man GTP pro is impossible to shot str8....definatly needs to be cut

 

[bicepts101]

my general idea is to have one mass builder, one strenth builder, and finish with one solidifier

my upcoming cycle:
eq..mass builder
fina..mass builder...also great for strength
winny..solidifier...i get strong as shit on winny

GH and insulin are for the more advanced...i have no bussiness there

 

[ericahls]

I am glad to see that the consensus on this board is for the reasonable use of steroids. It is troubling to hear bros speak of the different steroids that they’re adding to their cycle as if they were adding spices to a sauce without concern for the possible consequences that can arise.

It is safe to say that the majority of us who use steroids are not professional bodybuilders. Most of us use steroids to sculpt our bodies and achieve a look that stands apart from the crowd. With this in mind I agree that using one or two compounds for a cycle is more than enough to achieve this goal.

Furthermore, it is also fair to say that we all react differently to compounds, so finding one or two compounds that works well for you might not work as effectively for someone else. For me Winny by its self or Winny / EQ combo has served me well. I personally have tried Anadrol, Anavar, Deca, Dianbol, EQ, Methyltestosterone, Parabolan, Primobolan, Sust 250, Cypionate, Enanthate, Propionate, Suspension and Winstrol. Years ago I used to help other bros acquire products so I was able to try out a lot of different compounds. After going thru that list I came up with Winny and EQ.

If you’re not a pro than I suggest that you find a compound or two that works well and stick with them. Remember, at the end of the day there exists the possibility to do harm to ourselves, so being smart and attempting to minimize this risk will benefit you in the long run. Just my two cents.

 

[Judo Tom]

i think a lot of people are missing the point of finding what works best for them..not what has worked for someone else

just cause (insert big dudes name here) used an eq/deca stack with winny at the end and walked on stage at 4% doesnt mean thats a good cycle for you. People need to find the right compounds for there body and there goals

instead people try a crazy ass cycle with multiple compounds theyve never used and dont get great results and then just try something else completely out of the blue

instead i think you should start with 1 chem first.. (test is my choice)
run 1 cycle with just that

after that cycle if that went good you should keep that chem in there and add another chem that compliments it (try deca or eq) and just keep building from there this way you know how each chem is effecting you..

 

[bicepts101]

i think a lot of people are missing the point of finding what works best for them..not what has worked for someone else

just cause (insert big dudes name here) used an eq/deca stack with winny at the end and walked on stage at 4% doesnt mean thats a good cycle for you. People need to find the right compounds for there body and there goals

instead people try a crazy ass cycle with multiple compounds theyve never used and dont get great results and then just try something else completely out of the blue

instead i think you should start with 1 chem first.. (test is my choice)
run 1 cycle with just that

after that cycle if that went good you should keep that chem in there and add another chem that compliments it (try deca or eq) and just keep building from there this way you know how each chem is effecting you..

this is good advise...i wish i could go back and do a test only for my first cycle

 

[Mavy]

ANother good post Satchy-boy! I agree with the general consensus here. For 1, I am no longer an advocate of running longer cycles. In my mind 6 wks is the ideal cycle length. Why? Because

1. gains seem to slow down after this mark (for me, and many other users anyways).
2. This is not a long enough time for me to experience any negative sides. Sides come for me when long acting depots start accumulating over time.
3. Recovery is much easier. Longer and heavier dose cycles run you a greater risk of either a recovery problem with the testes or with the pituitary. If it cannot be corrected, you may need HRT indefinately. The shorter the cycle the easier it is to recover from.

I agree with DrJMW on this. He is a doctor, who actually prescribes cycles and recovery programs to athletes (god bless him - docs like that make this world a better place to live in, lol ). THis has to be done correctly though. Hit is hard and fast for those 6 weeks, fast acting gear, high frequency training, decent dosages etc. I also agree with him from experience. It is definately the law of diminishing returns for myself. I cna make great gains with 6 wks. Would I continue growing if I stayed on for 12 weeks? Probably. But not worth it in my mind staying on, and staying suppressed for the few extra lbs that I will gain. They will not equal the same amount as the first 6 weeks.

Now, when I did do the best with longer cycles, I did switch up compounds. There is some logic to this. People running 6 compunds from start to finish is rediculous in my mind if you are not a pro. I think that even a lot pros dont do this, just run VERY high doses of a few different roids. Running 3 at once, then switch 2 of them out (keeping one as a base, like test or EQ for example), makes sense to me.

Most people who cycle longer cycles like to hit there cycle hard for mass at the start, and use roids known mostly as "mass builders", towards the end of the cycle, they like to use "hardening" type of drugs, to help solidify their gains, and eliminate any bloat. IMO any drug can do both of these drugs. One of the only real differences between these two types of drugs is the amount of water retention caused by each . You would be surprised at how many top level competitors cut with drugs like Anadrol. IMO a drug like dbol is an awesome drug for cutting as well as mass for the impact is has on cortisone levels. Water can easily be controlled through diet and supps. People have to remember that all of these drugs basically do the same thing, for example winny dosent help you "burn fat", like many think by adding it to a cutter. Var on the other hand, can actually have an impact on visceral fat, so there are some minor differences, but in the end, they all do basically the same thing for you, some just cause more sides, or more water etc.

But ... there is a reason why certain drugs stack so well together, and is usually why people stack drugs in the first place. For instance, most people always stack class I and Calss II steroids together. Class II steroids are not very effective in activating ARs, it should be stacked with a Class I steroid that is effective in this regard. This is why stacks like Primobolan and Dbol work so good. You are covering all bases. Deca+Dbol is another amazing stack, deca being highly anabolic, dbol being an amazing anti-catabolic. The only thing that would be a better stack would be Deca/dbol/test. The classic stack of all time. This stack is so effective as it covers all bases. Adding other drugs into the mix is just over doing it imho. I think that a lot of people get carried away and really over do their cycles. For instance most people think of primo to be a "weak" or "girls steroid, however I bet if people ran primo at a decent dosage, stacked with dbol, they would be MORE than happy with the results. Adding test into the mix would only make things better. Adding other exotic blends into the mix, although it may help, is just overkill and increasing the users risk of side effects. In my opinion, if you know what works well for you, and you are beginning to stall on your cycles, increasing dosages instead of adding more compounds to the mix makes more sense to me. Good post going here.

Mavy

 

[LVTitan]

killer post mavy ...k to ya.
and i agree with bicepts..i'm leaving the more advanced chemicals to the more advanced people.. btw bicepts, i boned ur avatar last night.
on a side note, satch : if a girl had some mucous or snot hanging from her gash, would that be a snatch boogie ?

 

[bicepts101]

great post mavy...i cant give karma to you

primo and dbol was something i have been wanting to try in the future

but i was thinking more along the lines of npp low dose, dbol low dose, and primo high dose=some where around 6-800mg WK

 

[Mavy]

Sounds awesome biceps! I want to run a high dose primo, with some dbol as well. Just cant really afford it these days. They must pay you good in the military bro, more than me anyways! lol. And well deserved at that.

I like that cycle, with the high dose of primo, but I would trade the low dose of NPP for low dose of test, like 2-300mg/wk of cyp for example. Either way, im sure it will be great. Supposedly that was Arnold's stack, dbol+primo, but who really knows, lol. K to you and lvtitan

 

[bicepts101]

Sounds awesome biceps! I want to run a high dose primo, with some dbol as well. Just cant really afford it these days. They must pay you good in the military bro, more than me anyways! lol. And well deserved at that.

I like that cycle, with the high dose of primo, but I would trade the low dose of NPP for low dose of test, like 2-300mg/wk of cyp for example. Either way, im sure it will be great. Supposedly that was Arnold's stack, dbol+primo, but who really knows, lol. K to you and lvtitan

yeah...im not really a fan of test..it doesnt do much for me, except for gyno...i figure the npp, primo, dbol should leave me with little to no sides....

...oh and trust me i cant afford that cycle just yet...and the military is not paying me shit...fuckin bastard government.....hence i get the fuck out in july

 

[Anthony Starks]

by the way.. i'm talkin about yellows/normas so keep in mind that .5cc equals 50mg and certainly an insignicant amount regarding your comment above.

Just to play devil's advocate, if you are shooting prop even eod, thats still 200mg of deca a week, so not an "insignificant" amount.

 

[kevin6]

well bro..
i never mentioned that i use deca in all my injects.
in fact, i rarely use deca for such purpose unless i'm sticking 500mg susta in my delts (boy.. my delts are totally shot after a 2ml inj of susta).

lets take UG prop..
say GTP 200mg/1ml concentration.
dont know if you ever tried it but if there's one injection that paralyzed me for a week AND I'M NOT EXAGGERATING, its that.

even .5ml hurts badly..
mix .5ml deca and the pain is gone..

by the way.. i'm talkin about yellows/normas so keep in mind that .5cc equals 50mg and certainly an insignicant amount regarding your comment above.

you know i like human grade

hi satch,

i've always enjoyed reading your posts--informative and applicable.

do you think i could mix test prop and NPP? not for fear of pain...but would like to halve the # of injections.

thanks--

 

[Anthony Starks]

hi satch,

i've always enjoyed reading your posts--informative and applicable.

do you think i could mix test prop and NPP? not for fear of pain...but would like to halve the # of injections.

thanks--

As long as they are both oil based (which they are) you can mix any roids you want.

 

[Dial_tone]

never more than 3 at once, two injectables and one oral.

 

[alltraps]

i have usualy stuck with one oral and two injectables for most of the cycles i have ever ran. and it was true, that after about the 7th week, gains would come to a hault, no matter what i did.
i just started a cycle that is very different then i used to do, Ulter put it together for me. the basis of it is switching gear every 4 weeks or so

test 2000mg weeks 1-8
NPP 800mg weeks 1-8
dbol weeks 1-3
winny weeks 4-8
rest 1000mg weeks 8-16
eq 800mg weeks 8-16
tren weeks 8-16
var 100mg a day weeks 10-18

complicated as hell, but im gonna try it to see what happens.

 

[Mavy]

What? Am I reading that right alltraps? No abombs .. but .. dbol instead? My god! lol.

That cycle is a little to harsh for my likings, but I bet that you are going to fucking explode off of that. Looks like 7 different choices of gear. I can see why you want tren E now as well, lots of jabs in that cycle, I would try to get all high dosed gear. I am curious to here how that works out. I want to run 100mg of var per week, but many peeps tell me it dosent do anything different past 60mg, except make you more poor.

That cycle will cost you a small fortune. I would not be cheap on ancillaries either.

Mavy

 

[alltraps]

What? Am I reading that right alltraps? No abombs .. but .. dbol instead? My god! lol.

That cycle is a little to harsh for my likings, but I bet that you are going to fucking explode off of that. Looks like 7 different choices of gear. I can see why you want tren E now as well, lots of jabs in that cycle, I would try to get all high dosed gear. I am curious to here how that works out. I want to run 100mg of var per week, but many peeps tell me it dosent do anything different past 60mg, except make you more poor.

That cycle will cost you a small fortune. I would not be cheap on ancillaries either.

Mavy

i dont use any ancillaries at all. i have them all on hand, from nolva to bromo to femara. i just never need them.