Should John Walker die for treason?

[Longhorn85]

Actually I don't even agree that he is a traitor. You have to be an American citizen to be a traitor, and he renounced his citizenship, according to the constitution, by taking up arms with a foreign power versus the US.

I think he should have been treated just as any other member of the Taliban, and left as a prisoner of the Northern Alliance when captured.

Now that he is here, I think he should be dealt with harshly in order to deter such behavior. Many in the press are calling for mercy on the part of the President.

What do you think?

 

[strongchick]

My question is, if John Walker were not a mainstream American, would leniency be in the discussion?

 

[Island Son]

AFAIK he's not a traitor, there was no war declared (only "use of force") and he didn't sell any secrets. Really not even a mercenary, since he left long before any of this happened. Any lawyer will argue that he was in the mountains, kept brainwashed and uninformed, and fought against Afghan troops.

 

[Longhorn85]

But hasn't Walker already admitted to knowingly taking up arms with the Taliban in order to defeat the US? He was clearly not brainwashed.

 

[Longhorn85]

My question is, if John Walker were not a mainstream American, would leniency be in the discussion?

If by mainstream you mean white, I think it is irrelevant.

 

[strongchick]

If by mainstream you mean white, I think it is irrelevant.

Irrelevant to your question, but not to our government. I can hear the discussion at the round table now...

 

[Longhorn85]

If Bush is true to form, he will have this guy executed.

 

[rushx79]

Irrelevant to your question, but not to our government. I can hear the discussion at the round table now...

youre really really really really pathetic... and it shows.

 

[strongchick]

youre really really really really pathetic... and it shows.

What, you don't watch Law and Order? They always show the discussion of similar issues during pre-trial.

Heehee.

But seriously, if you don't think politicians are concerned about backlash from the Arab-American public over this, you are nuts.

Arab-Americans may have no concerns at all over it, but then, if they do, there are political implications.

 

[strongchick]

If Bush is true to form, he will have this guy executed.

Lets make a bet. I'm betting John Walker will not be executed.


Even though Bush is kill happy.

 

[WarriorPL]

Ancient Japanese torture i say.

 

[Island Son]

from what I've read Bush isn't kill-happy about this guy, military and Justice Department are.
CIA mole Aldrich Ames is still alive, and he was convicted of treason, which directly led to at least 10 deaths, for money.

 

[danielson]

My question is, if John Walker were not a mainstream American, would leniency be in the discussion?

its a fair enough question

if it were an american who had come to live here from some arabian country and decided to jet of and live the camel-humping life it could be argued people wouldn't bat and eyelid if they wanted to 'off' him, even if he was born in the US.

Do i think he should be killed? no....i dont think he should unless it can be proved he did something that allows the milary to kill him (i have no idea what this might be, war crimes etc)

if he didnt he should treated exactly like the al-queda prisoners the northern alliance took. what this probably translates to is being captured and then eventauuly finding their way into a condo in pakistan ....he left the country to fight against it, he shouldnt even get to enjoy your penal system

 

[DcupSheepNipples]

Should John Walker die for treason?

OFF WITH HIS HEAD! SEND HIM TO ME! I WILL DO IT FOR FREE! NO NEED TO BOTHER THE WORLD WITH THAT USELESS HIPPY!

 

[RyanH]

It's my understanding that Conservatives place an incredible amount of weight on both human life and even unborn fetuses...Thus, why would you want to take the life of a young man, run astray? Or, the life of anyone else for that matter?

Consistency is a true virtue.

Ryan.

 

[StillGreg]

Remove him

It is sad that people have to be permanently removed from the planet, however it is a necessity sometimes. Those who have proved themselves unable to be socialized and to pose a continuing threat to society must be removed forever. It is not fair and not natural that they remain a lifelong burden on the humanity. Accordingly, it is only natural that they forfeit their life. That is part of the philosopher Thomas Aquinas' natural law teachings as I recall.

In my opinion, this kid John Walker has taken up arms against humankind in a way that has no regard for the lives of innocent people. He has chosen a path from which he cannot return. Therefore, he must die.

 

[danielson]

Re: Remove him

It is sad that people have to be permanently removed from the planet, however it is a necessity sometimes. Those who have proved themselves unable to be socialized and to pose a continuing threat to society must be removed forever. It is not fair and not natural that they remain a lifelong burden on the humanity. Accordingly, it is only natural that they forfeit their life. That is part of the philosopher Thomas Aquinas' natural law teachings as I recall.

In my opinion, this kid John Walker has taken up arms against humankind in a way that has no regard for the lives of innocent people. He has chosen a path from which he cannot return. Therefore, he must die.

not human kind. just the US and coalition members


send him to afghanistan. see how long he lasts as a white american man in pakistan. they might not kill him but i suspect he might try and off himself

whats more worrying is how easily he got brainwashed. happens here in our uni's all the time

 

[DcupSheepNipples]

It's my understanding that Conservatives place an incredible amount of weight on

Any Conservative or Liberal that supports that piece of shit is a fucking traitor! They ought to get bitch slapped a thousand times by Gary Coleman, the Beaver, and Webster! Three of the greatest child stars of all time!

 

[dynomite]

Legal technicalities aside, he deserves death. He would have killed our Marines-given
the chance. He was not fighting for his own homeland or family. He had no justification for
his actions.

The man is a worthless piece of shit.

Death is the most gentle option for him.

 

[3Vandoo]

John Walker second generation Irish Catholic in the US same that were discriminated by American Anglo Saxon Protestant so not mainstream american, sorry.


As for John Walker, when I was alway and the "brits" ""cought"" cough""t Americans
got their hands on him, I freaked out when I heard his name LOL

My cousin dated a guy name John Walker.

oh well

 

[danielson]

 

[RyanH]

The issue of this thread, at least from the title, is whether or not Mr. Walker should die, not whether he is a traitor.

Explain the advantages to executing Mr. Walker? Will his execution prove as a deterrent? Executions never have. Thus, there seems to be little benefit to executing Mr. Walker.

 

[Test boy]

He should be treated like any other Taliban member unless it is proven that he played a part in the execution of the CIA agent at Walkers prison impound.

It is my understanding that he renounced his citizenship and became a citizen of Afghanistan or some like country. So he ended his "duties" and privledges of being a U.S. citizen.

His Dad is an attorney so you can be sure that he will get treated quite fairly. Who knows...may get rich off of a book deal.

 

[danielson]

The issue of this thread, at least from the title, is whether or not Mr. Walker should die, not whether he is a traitor.

Explain the advantages to executing Mr. Walker? Will his execution prove as a deterrent? Executions never have. Thus, there seems to be little benefit to executing Mr. Walker.

he didnt actually fight for the taliban did he? unless he did, he simply 'defected' to the enemy side. while this effectivly makes him scum, its interesting from a legal standpoint whether or not the US has any right to execute someone who's renounced any acknowledgement of their laws and citizenship. he effectivly just didnt agree with the US and went somewhere where people conformed with his political view

admittedly it isnt as clear cut as that as you were at war with that country but given that he didnt kill anyone, is there any legal case to execute him? the only way i can see round this is if they had intended for him to become a suicide bomber in america (due to him being a white american, perfect choice), but they'd need to prove it

 

[3Vandoo]

Damn it kill the fucker to end that thread!!!!!

 

[RyanH]

he didnt actually fight for the taliban did he? unless he did, he simply 'defected' to the enemy side. while this effectivly makes him scum, its interesting from a legal standpoint whether or not the US has any right to execute someone who's renounced any acknowledgement of their laws and citizenship. he effectivly just didnt agree with the US and went somewhere where people conformed with his political view

admittedly it isnt as clear cut as that as you were at war with that country but given that he didnt kill anyone, is there any legal case to execute him? the only way i can see round this is if they had intended for him to become a suicide bomber in america (due to him being a white american, perfect choice), but they'd need to prove it

I agree. I don't really see any hard proof of treason. The facts only show that he had a brief meeting with Bin Laden at some point, but they do not show that he any hand in the 9-11 attacks.

The facts really only show, as you said, that he renounced his citizenship. I suspect many will, unfortunately, use Mr. Walker as an example, of the "toughness" of the Bush Administration. When, in fact, he's not even a footnote to the present crisis.

True, it's hard to imagine why anyone would renounce his/her citizenship in a modern, civilized nation to flee to Afghanistan. But, Mr. Walker nevertheless did. Still, does that make him a traitor?

Ryan.

 

[DcupSheepNipples]

Explain the advantages to executing Mr. Walker? Will his execution prove as a deterrent? Executions never have. Thus, there seems to be little benefit to executing Mr. Walker.

I need to update my video collection of faces of death! So with him getting fried and on tape I will be up to date! I believe it will be called Faces Of Death the Johny Walker Barbeque! Sauce not included!

OFF WITH HIS HEAD!

 

[danielson]

I agree. I don't really see any hard proof of treason. The facts only show that he had a brief meeting with Bin Laden at some point, but they do not show that he any hand in the 9-11 attacks.

The facts really only show, as you said, that he renounced his citizenship. I suspect many will, unfortunately, use Mr. Walker as an example, of the "toughness" of the Bush Administration. When, in fact, he's not even a footnote to the present crisis.

True, it's hard to imagine why anyone would renounce his/her citizenship in a modern, civilized nation to flee to Afghanistan. But, Mr. Walker nevertheless did. Still, does that make him a traitor?

Ryan.

true....thus jail him like all the other troops

 

[Rex]

Wasn't he involved in that prison incident over there? I think they also have him on tape being interviewed by the CIA guy who was killed. I'm sure if there is evidence to him taking up arms against our troops, then it will be used.

Just b/c RyanH, Strongchick, ect say there is no evidence simply b/c they haven't seen any doesn't mean its not there. News flash! You don't need to see the evidence. Nor do I. The Gov't is not going to put us a top of the priority list to see evidence.

We're on a need to know basis, and right now we don't need to know. Let the people do their jobs.

 

[danielson]

Wasn't he involved in that prison incident over there? I think they also have him on tape being interviewed by the CIA guy who was killed. I'm sure if there is evidence to him taking up arms against our troops, then it will be used.

Just b/c RyanH, Strongchick, ect say there is no evidence simply b/c they haven't seen any doesn't mean its not there. News flash! You don't need to see the evidence. Nor do I. The Gov't is not going to put us a top of the priority list to see evidence.

We're on a need to know basis, and right now we don't need to know. Let the people do their jobs.

they were just pointing out that different issues come into play if there wasntb any evidence against him, not that there wasnt any.

to be perfectly honest if the givernment is going to be trying him as a citizen or a former citizen i for one think the public is well within their rights to find out why he was being killed. if he helped kill the CIA operative, i doubt they would want to hide that. just my opinion

 

[Rex]

they were just pointing out that different issues come into play if there wasntb any evidence against him, not that there wasnt any.

to be perfectly honest if the givernment is going to be trying him as a citizen or a former citizen i for one think the public is well within their rights to find out why he was being killed. if he helped kill the CIA operative, i doubt they would want to hide that. just my opinion

I agree, and would like to know how they're going to handle it to. I think they're still getting it all sorted out. If he did help kill the CIA operative, and had a hand in other shit, then I'm sure we will be informed. Just like the Bin Laden tape.

 

[RyanH]

Wasn't he involved in that prison incident over there? I think they also have him on tape being interviewed by the CIA guy who was killed. I'm sure if there is evidence to him taking up arms against our troops, then it will be used.

Just b/c RyanH, Strongchick, ect say there is no evidence simply b/c they haven't seen any doesn't mean its not there. News flash! You don't need to see the evidence. Nor do I. The Gov't is not going to put us a top of the priority list to see evidence.

We're on a need to know basis, and right now we don't need to know. Let the people do their jobs.

You trust the Federal Government a lot more than most Americans do. Part of living in a Democratic government is living in a country with open, public discourse....Your insistence that us Americans do not need to see the evidence sounds very undemocratic and if anything, is reminiscent of a communist or dictatorial nation.

 

[danielson]

I agree, and would like to know how they're going to handle it to. I think they're still getting it all sorted out. If he did help kill the CIA operative, and had a hand in other shit, then I'm sure we will be informed. Just like the Bin Laden tape.

i feel sorry for his family.

 

[Longhorn85]

It's my understanding that Conservatives place an incredible amount of weight on both human life and even unborn fetuses...Thus, why would you want to take the life of a young man, run astray? Or, the life of anyone else for that matter?

Consistency is a true virtue.

Ryan.

Conservatives and most Americans for that matter value the protection of an innocent life, and also in upholding justice. Taking the life of a convicted murder or traitor (such as capital punishment) is the ultimate punishment and protects innocent human life and upholds justice.

This is consistent.

 

[strongchick]

Osama specifically mentioned the annihilation of white Americans in his latest tape. Odd.

 

[danielson]

Osama specifically mentioned the annihilation of white Americans in his latest tape. Odd.

specifically white? he's got a hard on for all infidels.
either that or he's trying to use race as a tool for sowing dissent in america by dividing before conquering

 

[strongchick]

specifically white? he's got a hard on for all infidels.
either that or he's trying to use race as a tool for sowing dissent in america by dividing before conquering

Yeah, I agree we should ignore it. I just find it so strange that he would kill indiscriminately, then in a tape, say it is whites he is targeting. At the same time, use John Walker to aid him. sigh.


That this was discussed seriously on the news this morning is a sign that the world is going mad.

Just get the asswipe, already.

 

[KEL]

*comes out from under a rock*

Isn't John Walker a P.O.W.? Why would we waste our overworked U.S. courts on him?
Shouldn't he dealt with by the military?

*returns to rock*

 

[TxArmyGuy]

They should have put a bullet in his head before it came to this....I dont believe the reports of him claiming only to be fighting against the Northern Alliance. He's lucky to be alive, reguardless if he renouced his citizenship He is our enemy. Our enemy is a terrorist organization, not a country, not a Army, Airforce, or Navy....The only good Terrorist is a dead Terrorist

 

[Gorlim]

he should be killed and it should be televised. PS strongchick your still a dumb bitch.

 

[Longhorn85]

*comes out from under a rock*

Isn't John Walker a P.O.W.? Why would we waste our overworked U.S. courts on him?
Shouldn't he dealt with by the military?

*returns to rock*

I think I'm in love!